Another thought - what about self-sacrifice? Are people who die for the common good, or for a cause, subject to the same penalties as a suicide?

I remember reading about a bodhisattva* who walked into a tiger's den because the cubs were hungry and offered his body for them to eat. *It might have been an incarnation of The Buddha - it's a long time since I read the story.

Moving on a bit those same authorities who are discouraging us from slitting our wrists are more than happy to send us out to die in wars - some of them holy wars. They don't just encourage people to walk voluntarily to their deaths, they expect it.

I have had to deal with a person who thought it easier to kill herself. It brings a terrible guilt to any involved with that person as family, friend or just coworker. The ones left behind have a vacuum where this person used to be and the one question they ALL have is "What could I have done to save her (him)?".

So if it were a reincarnation issue, technically you would have to come back to repair the discord between souls of each person touched with the bad karma of your killing yourself. You would STILL have to go through the tough times from your previous life that was being done to teach you whatever lesson to be learned AND now have to deal with the repercussions of dealing with the ones you harmed in previous life.

Of course, if you are athiest, then slit your wrist... it won't matter anyway. right?

As to wanting to be a guide. Who would want a guide who is too stupid to enjoy the life he had. There would be no way you would be made into a guide out of a selfish need to fulfill YOUR wants.

Suicide is a selfish route unless you have a terminal illness. Then it would be a relief to yourself and your family. I have watched terminal illness family members last way past what they were supposed to and the horrible pain until their death.

Anyway, my opinion on this subject.

Originally posted by mhinsey

As to wanting to be a guide. Who would want a guide who is too stupid to enjoy the life he had. There would be no way you would be made into a guide out of a selfish need to fulfill YOUR wants.

Forgive me if my reasons for wanting to be a guide seemed selfish. I was thinking that if I died a natural death and wanted to help the living, would I be allowed to apply for a job as a 'guardian' or would all those posts have been taken by suicides?

I do absolutely take your point that a person who was too stupid to enjoy their own life might not make the best guide for other people. But you could look at it that a person who had ended their life because of severe troubles might have the insight that another troubled person could benefit from.

Originally posted by berenike
Another thought - what about self-sacrifice? Are people who die for the common good, or for a cause, subject to the same penalties as a suicide?

I have thought about that once too. I believe a soul is eternal and indestructible but I also believe in free will and choices (even if it is my last one) and realizing I am here for all eternity I would do everything possible to become aware of what that means. In other words take to the example of guru's, lama's and yogi's who are said to be are aware of dying and existing in the here after.

If such things are possible I can see myself trying very hard to becoming aware, exist in the hereafter for a long time doing all sorts of things which I probably can't even imagine now, meeting an uncountable number of beings, being reborn again for many many times (maybe in many different worlds), visiting all kinds of places both with suffering and without. I would be able to remember them all too (if a soul is infinite it should probably contain the memories of all lifetimes as well).

But at some time I would without a doubt want to end it, do something for the last time and that could only be choosing my soul to dissolve. It might be it dissolves into nothingness but it might also be it dissolves in every other soul or maybe a source. It might even be something like a new universe for other beings to inhabit, maybe that is the big bang.

I remember reading about a bodhisattva* who walked into a tiger's den because the cubs were hungry and offered his body for them to eat. *It might have been an incarnation of The Buddha - it's a long time since I read the story.

Those are the Jataka tales, about the previous lives of the Buddha Gautama. There are slight cultural differences of that story where the Buddha to be was a prince travelling with his brothers (others say he was a guru or renunciate travelling with disciples) either way stumbling upon the dying mother tiger and her cubs he threw himself in front of the tigress (some version says he even took his own life by cutting his throat, the tigress was too weakened others say the fierce tigress violently killed him). By doing this he showed the supreme sacrifice. Some versions also point out how he repayed an old karmic debt or how the cub was going to be his future son.

Being critical myself I suppose it would have made more sense to go back to town, get some food and return, if the tigress dies while doing so taking care of the cubs. Ofcourse one could further argue what kind of food the bodhisattva should have brought as a tiger is a carnivore and to take the flesh of an animal to feed another animal would not be correct. But in that case, it would make sense the world should be herbivore only and it would be better to let the tigers die. I've also further thought of the sutra, what if the cubs grow up to be tigers then kill and eat people? It sounds a bit silly for a human to feed himself to tigers which then feed on other people.

[edit on 20-3-2009 by Dragonfly79]

What you're asking is....when you die does your soul die too?

How you die is, well, how you die...and that's all. If you get hit by a truck, develop cancer, or jump off a building something happens to your body and something happens to your mind. I believe the mind is the soul and as long as minds exist you exist no matter what body the mind is in.

I saw someone post something about not being able to spiritually evolve if you kill yourself and when you are reincarnated you will suffer more for choosing to die in such a way in your life before. Personally i think that is nonsense. Minds evolve through experience and killing yourself would be an experience, one that is no more and no less of a valuable one to have than others.

Of course i'm not saying that anyone should top themselves for the sake of having that particular experience, unfortunately there are many people feeling woeful enough to have that experience for you, or if you believe in reincarnation you either have or will at some point commit suicide.