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I know this is a very minority opinion around here but...

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posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by watcheroftheskies
first off you have done nothing to prove there isnt a global conspiracy and what youve said is merely opinion...thats all opinions are ....opinions...

The knife cuts both ways, bro...



on the other hand there are alot of members here on ATS who with a great deal of knowledge and research to back it up, show that there is evidence to the contrary of your opinion...not only that but there are many researchers across the globe who have very good credentials who have done incredible amounts of research to show that there is some substantiating factors to a conspiracy of a very sinister nature and not all of them are named David Icke....

And none of it has convinced me. You can 'prove' anything you want, if you pick and choose the facts to fit your own agenda.

why dont you do some research your self?

I have, and have found nothing convincing.

i think you find most researchers on ATS would disagree with you....

I find many people disagree with me. But disagreement itself is not reason for me to change my views.

to just off handed make an opinion that there is no NWO or a global elite conspiracy is lacking in any true knowledge of the subject itself...

You're going into the subject with the idea that the NWO exists. Preconceived notions are the bane of all knowledge. You cannot know anything if you start out thinking you already '

my suggestion to you would be to do some research to prove there is no conspiracy and post it .

You can't prove a negative. I cannot prove that there is no NWO, it's your job to prove that there is one. Don't ask me to do your dirty work


or it may just be the idea of half of theese things coming true scare you !!! BOO!

That's another thing...nobosy can seem to get their story about the NWO straight. It seems everyone and their grandma have a scheme to take over the world.

Originally posted by KayEm
All I see when I look around are signs of the NWO.

The way the Sheeple keep their eyes and heads down and refuse to rock the boat because of what other people might say - this proves the "people police themselves, so we don't need the sheepdogs" idea.

This is another thing that bugs me...everyone who doesn't see a conspiracy in their bowl of Cheerios is a sheeple.
I'm not scared of what other people may say about my views, as this thread should be ample proof.


The way people just put up and accept stuff that is SO ridiculous and harmful to human beings, not to mention our planet, simply because that's the "way it is and always has been done".

Uh...what? You're thinking about "Us and them". There are plenty of people who disagree with government policies, many people that care for the environment. But they don't all see it as a conspiracy, they just see it as problems that need to be fixed.


Stubborn adherence to the status quo - All I have to do to prove to myself that the conspiracy theorists are right is purposely go out and challenge the status quo to some sheep. There are always one of two possible reactions. They either A. Get incredibly angry and defensive or B. tell me I'm out of my mind. This is "people policing each other" at it's finest, people.

Who the hell do you talk to? The second reaction is probably natural, but the first I rarely, if ever, have seen.


The movie the Matrix wasn't just a movie. There were many parallels between it and 'real' life.

People DO fight to the death to defend the system because they are too inured to it. And people DON'T see simply because they refuse to.

The Matrix was an action movie with cool camera tricks. It's philosophy dates back to the ancients (might I remind you that the story for The Matrix was stolen from many, many sci-fi stories from the past decades. It was hqrdly a new concept).

You see people as 'defending the system'. I see people as defending what they believe. I could say of you that youa re defending the 'conmpsiracy system', because you believe in it so deeply it would shatter your worldview were it to be destroyed.

But I'm not an asshole, so I wouldn't do that




Lastly, I was telling Pisky this morning that I wouldn't be surprised if a sheeple walked into a bank and actually came face to face with a reptillian, I'm talking visible here, folks, complete with scales and forked tongues and everything. I bet Pisky that the average person on the street wouldn't even "see" what the logical mind was telling him was right in front of him. He would find a way to deny what he was seeing.

You've been watching too much Buffy, I think...


This is what I see when I look around out there. A bunch of sheeple, eyes cast down, denying everything they see because they are too comfortable and complacent and want nothing to change.

Funny how people get all upset at being labeled 'conspiracy theorists', and bitch and moan about how it's just an easy label so people don't have to listne to you. Then you go ahead and label anyone who disagrees with you as a sheep. You're very hypocritical in that regard.



Originally posted by Seekerof
I believe, from my own college field of study and the research associated with it that the New World Order is an 'agenda', a utopian concept, and that it is an ancient belief/concept.

If you mean the idea of an all-encompassing utopia, I agree that it is a very old and, in my opinion, noble dream. But I do not think there is an organization past or present that ever had the serious goal of bringing it about.

As such, I, however, have no idea if it is a 'functioning' reality today. Many will say that it is, many will say that it is not. As with anything else, proofs and evidences vary from subjective to objective. I am almost certain, that to a small, finite degree, the 'agenda' still exists.




seekerof

This, I need to disagree with. While the idea may live in the minds of some, I don't think there are any groups to be pushing 'the agenda'.

A unified world may be sought by some, and it may be a natural progression. But there is no conspiracy about it. Globalization is in the interest of some, but it's due to their own goals, not the goals of some ancient agenda.




posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:14 PM
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My opinion is that humans by nature are too incompetent and self-serving to keep such a NWO conspiracy a secret and on track.

As I've said many times, we ourselves are the NWO. It's just us common folk wanting more as we always do. We'll take the chip when we want to play the cool new video game, or when they make it so the chip can cure your cancer or stabilize your bi-polar mania, or when to type something you just have to think it. The NWO is the natural course of our social progress coupled with technology that makes the world a much smaller place than it used to be.

I do think there are a lot of little conspiracies around, but no one is behind the scenes controlling everything. That's not the way humans do things. It sounds spooky and scary when you read it in a Dan Brown novel, but that's just not reality.

Count me as a NWO heretic.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:14 PM
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I don't either.

Keep the Faith.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by IMMORTAL
That is exactly what they want you to believe. They want you to think that you are safe under their rule and they will deceive you into their hidden agenda for world domination. Are you going to question what the Government tells you, or do you just accept what the Government tells you as being true?--I think that is the most important thing we have, to question.

The world as we know it is moving in one direction, that is to the agenda for the new world order. It is control among all nations of the world, all the resources--human and otherwise, under one central command station. The new world order as it is now, calls for control in the hands of the select few. Well, until we start moving toward a more humane world society, I can't see anything else but the NWO as it is happening now.


"They" are very skilled at staying hidden. Why, if I didn't know any better, I'd say "They" don't exist at all...



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by Flinx
Ok that's three heretics...any more of you out there?


4 heretics



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:19 PM
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i wasnt picking on you ....seekerof ....i hope you dont take it that way ....have you been picked on this week...the week is young and yes i believe the NWO exists and its hiding behind propaganda and political and religous manipulation....i just give you the thumbs up because i feel you have the inside info on stuff like this....i just feel if you make a comment like that on a subject like this ...you have validated it ...i think you thought i was being sarcastic....i wasnt



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by watcheroftheskies
first off you have done nothing to prove there isnt a global conspiracy and what youve said is merely opinion...thats all opinions are ....opinions...


Oh no, some one's forgetting something. A negative can never be proven, nor is it required to be proven.

And NO...big PHAT FARKING NO...nobody has proven the existence of the NWO. They've only pee-pee'd all around the subject with inuendo and double-speak. Nobody has PROVEN the existence of the NWO.

[Edited on 4-19-2004 by Valhall]



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by Esoterica
This is another thing that bugs me...everyone who doesn't see a conspiracy in their bowl of Cheerios is a sheeple.


You rule.
I was just bitching about the overuse of "sheeple" earlier today. It's the conspiracy theorist's equivilent to neocon.
**Note: It's overplayed, people! Ubiquitous! Not clever anymore!

Oh yeah.
Count me in with not believing.
At least, not to the degree that the mob here does.

-B.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:24 PM
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its not up to me to prove it ....you just came up with an opinion that it doesnt exist at all ....why should i have to prove it to you....can you prove to me the holocaust existed....you cant ....but i believe it did...all you could do is show me some movies and some books and websites and id have to make a decision for myself....but you could not emphatically prove it to me ....what can be proved ???
The proof is in the pudding



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:26 PM
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As I mentioned, this 'agenda' goes back to ancient times. One group or ancient society from that time period that still exists today is the Roshaniya or the Illuminated Ones:
ALT.ILLUMINATI
Secret Societies
Secrets #1
MILITANTS
The Illuminati Exposed: Mysterious Beginnings
The Illuminati Outline of History

Sources are as I first indicated, dubious and ambiguious, at best.



seekerof



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by watcheroftheskies
its not up to me to prove it ....you just came up with an opinion that it doesnt exist at all ....why should i have to prove it to you....can you prove to me the holocaust existed....you cant ....but i believe it did...all you could do is show me some movies and some books and websites and id have to make a decision for myself....but you could not emphatically prove it to me ....what can be proved ???
The proof is in the pudding


Bullcrap. lazy, tenuous, fragile logic.

The Holocaust happened. The proof is in the pudding. My pudding consists of 100,000's of survivors of death camps.

What's your proof?

Obfuscation or masturbation, they're both the same...you're still just screwing yourself.

[Edited on 4-19-2004 by Valhall]



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by Esoterica
"They" are very skilled at staying hidden. Why, if I didn't know any better, I'd say "They" don't exist at all...
They're not really skilled at staying hidden. They parade and joke around like G. W. Bush. They exist as the Government and the funders of the Government. The Government is they and the World Bankers are they.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:31 PM
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You don't prove something doesn't exist, you either prove it DOES exist, or you assume it to be bull#, until you do discover it. Just like weapons of mass destruction in iraq..
You guys are the ones preaching about people being tracked by credit cards, chips, some grand conspiracy that is somehow kept secret all around the world, of course it would take many years to plan something on this scale...what evidence do you have to support it? You have none, other than a few crackpots who claim to have worked for the government, or have some crazy idea about how the next sony ipod will send back your location to the fbi, and how we will all be exterminated or whatever...great story, but where are the facts?



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:31 PM
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some ones testimony that something happened is as good as anyone on here saying they were abducted by little green men and anal probed....sorry to hurt your feelings...whether its a hundred thousand or one...
i believe the holocaust happened ...im just making a comparison.....thousands and thousand of people have said they were abducted but do you believe them ??



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:33 PM
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Once again, an attempt to change the subject.

Abduction by "little green men" is not the subject. The existence, or rather the non-existence of the NWO is the subject.

Little green men abductions don't count as evidence toward the existence of the NWO.

TRY AGAIN!



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:33 PM
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hmm interesting thread indeed. Very diverse as well. This is how i see it.

There is a bit of Truth in Everything.
There are people who truly believe Auschwitz (sp) was a Conspiracy and never happened regardless of the evidence intact. There are those who truly believe that the world is in fact 'flat'.
Now believing the world is flat can be proven by way of science and logic. The same can be said of Auschwitz.
And someone brought up the holocaust, which is an excellent point seeing as big American Companys funded it to begin with, for experimentations on human beings. I wouldn't put anything past the NWO being even partially what people think it is. They pretty well own us already, they've passed bills and laws you'll never read or hear about. Is this a conspiracy then?

Na it's reality. History has and always shall be Doomed to Repeat Itself, its just up to Us to be intelligent enough to know when we've had enough. I leave you with this thought. Could these things occur again? Is it a Conspiracy to think that we're much too Civilized to reapeat them? Never say Never.



[Edited on 19-4-2004 by Sapphire]



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:35 PM
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im not trying to come up with evidence i was making a comparison ...so u changed the subject ....it would seem some of us are emotionally attached to this subject and faces are getting hot and flushhhhhhhhhh..........



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by watcheroftheskies
im not trying to come up with evidence i was making a comparison ...so u changed the subject ....it would seem some of us are emotionally attached to this subject and faces are getting hot and flushhhhhhhhhh..........


no, you are the one becoming defensive of your little NWO theory, why don't you post up some real evidence of modern nwo existance?



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:39 PM
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Honestly, I don't really believe in an NWO myself. I do believe that the vast majority of governments are not to be trusted, but I do not believe that there's any secret coalition attempting to seize control of the world.

Why? Here's why. The evident parts of the U.S. government can't get along for more than half an hour without breaking out into the ideological equivalent of a fist fight.

Additionally, as was said on the first page, humans just aren't capable of sticking to such a plan for very long. The whole Illuminati thing started up by Adam Weishaupt sometime a couple centuries ago lasted very little time at all. Even organizations completely and totally dedicated to a cause will change over time, and this change eventually begets a very large rift between their intended purpose and the end result.

And, third and perhaps most greatly, why would they do this? There really isn't any aspect of our lives that one government or another doesn't control to some extent. Exerting tighter controls than are now in place would require an enormous amount of manpower-- enforcers, spies, and armies that they just don't have. If they were large enough to do anything appreciable, then they'd have slipped up by now.



Third, technology. "OMG wtf teh microchips are teh 3V17!!!!!1111111zerg rush!!!!111". , doesn't seem to me to have any secret motives.


And, fourth, any self-respecting Illuminati cabalist knows very well that a dozen Protoss Zealots can out-rush the Zerg any day



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 07:40 PM
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I don't think anyone is saying that it couldn't be possible, just that we don't believe that it's happening on an all-encompasing scale. There very well may be groups that seek to rule the world or control things. They may achieve partial success at times, but that is a long way from controling the world or being able to maintain control for any length of time.

People are going to believe what they want to believe, even in the face of a total lack of verifiable evidence. Just look at Religion for the proof of that. I'm not sure why people are so facinated with the NWO idea. Maybe on some level it's easier to deal with a lack of power in one's own life if you can believe that some mysterious entity, be it God or some secret society, is out to make things difficult for you. Humans would always rather blame someone else for bad things than to take responsibility for their own existance and the challanges they must overcome.





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