Originally posted by RR98
...What we really need to do in this country is bust up the 2 party system and open things up into a multi-party system of government, ...

I disagree. That would only lead to more dis-unity. I say that ALL political parties should be disolved. Why is the party important? It's not. As an American, if I think I can help in the management and government of my State and Country, why do I need to declare my political party affiliation? It serves no purpose other than to divide the people.

We tried pressuring our so called representatives (HELLO! the bailouts anyone?) It didn't work, and it won't work, they don't care for us or our opinions.
The time for talk has ended. Now is the time to pick up our guns and start to practice headshots. Maybe if enough of our representatives are taken down under "Mysterious circumstances" then maybe they will start shaping up out of fear of being the next target. You may think I'm kidding, but I'm dead serious. They don't understand peaceful language... only violence which threatens them directly.

Originally posted by frailty
I have no doubt that Glenn Beck may really want to do the right thing

You mean quit and retain a tiny portion of his personal integrity? Nah, his check is sizeable no doubt. Why quit? It would only accomplish something useful to do so. Better to keep taking the bribes and convincing the TV audience they are getting something from him. He wants to be some kind of verbal totem? I, smallpeeps, would disassemble Glen Beck on live TV or in any debate ...But even if they offered me 60 seconds to do that, he'd have the power to cut to commerical or get the final spin, etc. Don't you notice how TV is not real and how no discussion can happen in that forum?

Do not trust anyone on the payroll and at the microphone now. They will not give you truth but will hypnotize you into thinking only you and your rifle can solve it. STOP. This is wrong. Rifles will not solve this current crisis yet I do believe in the rifle as the last resort. We are NOT EVEN CLOSE to being "there" yet.

Turning off the TV entirely would be a better first step than to pull the trigger of one's rifle. Does anyone here think the beltway sniper Malvo was a "patriot"? Uh, no, he was the same sort of created-kook as Teddy K. or McVeigh, etc. The goal is a fait-accompli in that it succeeds in the very conception of it. There is no way for patriotic Americans to be pro-active in the historical-context since they have been sidelined by the murderous goofballs who supposedly just cropped up from the grassroots which is TOTAL AND COMPLEAT BS. Violence solves nothing and many American patriots know this in spite of our media-served "national history of violence or supposed individual-kook violent responses to violence" as told by the cover-story.

I really think with all the issues facing America, the last thing you want to do is make people more emotional about these tough times. I would present the facts of the issues matter-of-factly and describe why things are going wrong from my Libertarian viewpoint and from the stance that we are drifting away from the ideas and values that made this country great. I would not try to impose my religious and cultural beliefs into the discussion, accept maybe to point out that this nation was founded so that people could have the freedom to choose for themselves. I think that the concepts of freedom, liberty and a government of and for the people are very rational ideas. I do not think you have to tap into people's more primal emotions to have them understand why these ideals are so rightous.

Good thoughts, and yet, I disagree in that what Americans need right now is more sadness and more emotionally traumatic truth BUT OF A DIFFERENT SORT.

You say that we don't want to upset Americans at this point, but in fact, if they are not shaken into good sense and resistant frame of mind, then the Kissenger plan will come into effect as we see many people in America are right as Kissinger predicted, "Once they have a large enough crisis, they will cry to us to save them"

Now let's see, do you think HK was saying that Americans would vote through Congress to be saved, when that crisis comes? I think not, because really all HK needed was a reason which mollified the masses.

- If you sit there silently, Kissenger's solution (Blue Hats) will come to America.

- If you fire your weapon and others do the same, Kissenger's solution (Blue Hats) will come to America.

- If you resist like the Indians did, and sit in the dirt and refuse to participate, Henry will have to go find some other platform for his theories.

The only solution is to completely align yourself with the non-aggressive principle with a Christlike attitude. Although I do see the Blue Hats may come to the US, shooting them would never produce good results. No, it would only bring about worse things. Please remember this.

I am also somewhat worried that these divisive viewpoints are more of what Glenn Beck is about, and he is smart and forward-thinking enough to understand that liberty movement is an ever growing now and in the future, so he hijacked it for his own personal gain.

Could be true, but he'd have to be actually smart. I think he's just getting paid.

Poverty is the real earmark of truth when Rome and taxes are in control. Jesus knew that. He was dirt-poor, had no where to lay his head. Still, he had value far beyond any generals who came after him, and his message has value today.

As to keeping religion and state apart from one another, I think that is another clever trick which is used to foster endless discussion on either side. One cannot remove "faith" from issues of government, and so that discussion is also, designed to lead nowhere.

Most of the arguments I see are poorly formulated and will lead to more tears. This "Revolution Discussion 2009" one is another of those, because this situation cannot be solved with bullets, as so many simple viewpoints seem to think.

"Not since Thomas Paine's Common Sense has there been such a clarion call to action." -- The Denver Post

[edit on 19-3-2009 by imd12c4funn]

Originally posted by themaster1
What about Sedition ?

Sedition laws somewhat equate to Terrorism and Public Order laws.

Yes, the analogy would be a bridge. The defenders of the 'bridge' aren't going to care if you are strapping C4 to the pylons or if you are trying to erode the foundation. Any tiny action against the bridge will call the same response.

But bridges can be good or bad. Romans built bridges to reach holdouts in several historical instances. Surely some bridges are bad and some are good. What matters, is the traffic on that bridge.

Whatever America is, it is surely driven by the people, be they sheep or human or drones. Destroying the bridge built 400 years ago by priests and puritans, is not the right idea. All we need to do is change the traffic flowing over it.

But America's most destructive and horrible bridge to the world, is its endlessly chattering media stream. One could see why the world wants us to stop preaching when we are clearly no more enlightened than the Romanists (and their victims) who built the first bridge to America.

Anyway, destroying the bridge, or undermining it, or working to block it, are all tactics that will be defeated, in my opinion. Changing the traffic that flows over the bridge, however, is doable.


[edit on 19-3-2009 by smallpeeps]

i found this video a long long time ago. i was going to post it but i figured that i wold just be called a re re just like all my otherposts

kind of makes you wonder, if all these conspiracies are purposly leaked from our government, to make us look crazy.

no common american would ever buy a conspiracy book, the knowledge would never get spread (as thomas paine had done before).

even if a common american were to open a page of a book about obama and his bad ways, they would just go to claim it as conspirator rubbish.

all the facts are out there, there are so many new age common sense equivalent books out to spread the knowledge, but it just isn't heard anymore.

its funny how america has been dumbed down so much.

Originally posted by hillbilly4rent


Black white red yellow and tan we are all Americans from birth till death. We owe every thing we have good or bad to this great nation. All creeds religions races and people of other nations have fought and died to protect this country and the freedom that America is known for. And to think we are going to sit idly by and let it all slip away I hope not. I will hold my ground I will protect my family,friends and my country I just hope I wont be alone.

You will not be alone.......

Do I need a second line?

And what are they gonna uprise against? Immigrants? Companies who hire them?

I'm not believing in any of this bullcrap until these "patriots" really organize to attack the POLICE in broad daylight and the heads of the big banks and corporations as well. When you gonna have Monsanto execs being chased by enraged war veterans or something then now I'll say that your Constitution is being revived. Til tis day, it will all be nothing more than childish nonense for gun lovers.

Originally posted by Echtelion
Smallpeeps, you're reflecting the exact same problem that I saw with all pacifist activists in my lifetime, [...] Pacifists suffer from the disease of being unable to take matters in their own hands, and to give all the responsibilities to some abstract power structure and demented, disconnected course of action that always seems to come down from the skies.

Wow, that's quite a statement. I hear you tho, pacifism leads nowhere and is 'diseased' thinking, right? Yeah.

Although I'm really worried about the reactionary and White supremacist subtext that this "Second American Revolution" has, the fact that people are organizing together in a militaristic way to bring forward a strong defense for the population from the abusive authorities and to to make their constitutional rights respected is nothing less than a foot in the right direction, really, although its not a solution for everybody's taste.

You live in Canada, right? When's the last time they had a Waco-type event up there?

The only thing that's missing from that is a way to provide ourselves with resources and democratic resource-management to survive without the help of emergency administrations like FEMA, cause you don't make revolution without bread (...and coffee

You've ranted against peace-nics but there's not much for me to respond to except to try and clarify: You think Americans should use force to change their government? Force in what way exactly? Should they have empty bolts in their rifles and just weild them for show, in a threatening manner? Personally I think this battlefield is more complex, and you are wrong to frame me as a person who does not understand combat. I understand enough about combat to know when a situation is a setup.

Do you?

The only solution is to completely align yourself with the non-aggressive principle with a Christlike attitude.

I hope you're being sarcastic here, or are you just completely mad?

Mad. But not completely.

Christianity [became widespread] because of the warlords

That is wrong. The violent part you are speaking of came only after the peaceful Christians had been sidelined/killed. The violence had nothing to do with Christ. Give me some info regarding your own faith (whatever that may be) and I'll be happy to shine a light into it.

If you're willing to play the marytr game like the thousands of leftist activists out there all there's gonna be is even more martyrdom, with people going massively in jail for just hanging out in the streets (like what happened in the last RNC convention, or just a few days ago in Montreal, Canada).

Going to jail? Isn't that where they humiliate and delouse you like in that movie "First Blood" with that guy John Rambo who fought in Vietnam and saw his buddies blown apart then gets rolled up by the US small-town power-trippers? As I recall, he went back and blew the whole damn town up. Yeah, I am beginning to see your point of view.

You do not defeat ideas with bullets... yeah, I got that a long time ago. Just as ideas will not shield you against bullets. History has shown that pacifist idealists are good at digging their own mass-graves and letting dictatorships simply happen because they really did'nt have this concrete alternative solution in their hands, after having refused the recourse to organized violence. Look at what happened to the movement of the White Rose in Nazi Germany. The only thing they succeeded was to ironically to make their failure be remembered through their flyers. And don't bring me the same old Gandhi lecture... he was part of the political elite in India, a privilege that millions of other fellow anti-imperialists at that time did not have.

Yeah, I hear you. The peaceniks in Hitler's time didn't stop him, Ghandi was not what he seemed, and both points are true. Words can stop bullets, however. If you don't know that, not sure what I can say to you.

Of course the violent approach is not magical, or neither fun or even ethical, it's just the one that works best in the face of any oppressive presence. Only an even more brutal oppression, of any kind -not just through killing or beating people- can get the people rid of a clear, concrete oppression. It is turning the fear in your advantage by showing that you can be even more dangerous than the despots who try to take over your life.

Do you see the glaring error in your post?

FACT: There is no way to be more dangerous than the authroity who run the US now. There is no way an American can make themselves appear to be "More Dangerous" than the authority or 'despots' as you term them. I don't think every soldier or cop is a robot.

I am not afraid Echtelion, I am just not the sort to encourage others into a meat grinder. I think the people who rally others toward the meat grinder, are arseheads who fail to think on a higher level. The meatgrinder is the idea of armed revolution against the US. That is true folly and it is totally unAmerican, even if a person is a redneck who feels the South will rise again or whatever. It is not patriotic or right to take this moment in 2009 and jump on America's spine so as to fracture it. There needs to be a power shift but it has to happen in the mind. Can your mind make that leap to a solution which doesn't involve telling your neighbor to get killed?

Thus, playing the sheep only makes you even more in the position of a sheep and it ends ups makign the oppressors stronger and/or more convinced of themselves. This is where the martyr game will lead you.

I am not 'playing the sheep' and I am not playing a 'martyr's game'. I am smart and cautious, that's all.

I am determined to break this idea of armed revolution or US-fracture like people seem to fantasizing will happen. I share Lincoln's desire that the US will remain one whole unit. I believe a peaceful solution exists though some are too feeble minded to grasp it. It takes little intelligence to pull a trigger and I am familiar with a variety of armaments and trigger pulls. I just feel that bullets are the low-tech answer and there needs to be an open non-media controlled dialogue regarding non violent solutions to the US internal crap-storm right now.

You seem motivated by fear far more than me.

I'm telling you: you are free to go test the power of love in front of a line of goons in full body armors and with advanced tactical weaponry, and brainswashed (and paid) to coldly smash down hippies and citizens alike, but I'm pretty sure you'll just end up weeping out of pain from some fractured bones in the van that's gonna led you to prison, if you did'nt already ran away out of the FEAR (and the nerve gas) they are using agaisnt you.

Hahahahaha, I really got a laugh out of that.

Now let's see. I am not afraid of a broken bone or three, and I am not afraid of any goon hiding behind riot gear and a mask. But also I do not have anger for that goon, for like other goons his mind has been rigidly pre-formed by his training; all he knows is violence.

I pity the goons and cops who can't see above their eyebrows. I feel sad for them, but no, I do not intend to either a: get beat down by them, or b: take violent action against them. I do not have to choose either option. Can you grasp that?

This is not the kind of violence that Ghandi has faced through his activism, and I'm really wondering if he would wear a gas mask and boots with electric insulation today, or perhaps just a horde of big-time lawyers and mainstream media reporters working for his cause. The average American has none of these. But he still has the possiblity to revolt in the most savagely violent manner that cannot be imagined...

You would rather have let's say, 50,000 Americans (not Canadians I guess?) dead due to armed revolt rather than having 100,000 of them with a broken arm and in jail? That's just f'ing stupid.

But okay, let's gameplan this armed revolt of yours. How shall it come about? When an apache helicopter or a predator drone is on the horizon, what would Thomas Paine do, prey tell?

The fact of the matter is that you are probably stuck in the old ways of thinking. The fact of this era and new century is that the PEOPLE have more power to talk and coordinate, and that needn't be for warfare, because that coordination is obviously going to monitored and closely observed by our fine armed forces and satellites.

But the point is this: If you have the right to speech, then that is what must be used first, because if you use any other method first, you'll be taken down hard. That's all I am saying. The authorities are itching for a reason to brutalize the dirty masses. It will not resolve anything for the dirty masses to arm themselves. IN FACT there will surely be infiltrators who come in and break windows and cause trouble so that the peaceniks are targetted, just like happened in Seattle at the WTO protests a few years back. The authorities are seeding these peaceful crowds with violent, masked idiots. So you have the masked anarchist/idiots versus the masked cops and the innocent protestors caught in the crossfire.

But regardless of how the authority schemes, they canot win against the principle of Jesus, which was not propagated by bloodshed but by belief and faith.

I understand if you have no faith, who can blame you? But I'll stand with the believers and Christians when that time comes. I will always try to talk to a cop or a judge or whatever like they are a real person with a heart. I don't care if it's true or not.

Originally posted by BostonBill99

Originally posted by RR98
...What we really need to do in this country is bust up the 2 party system and open things up into a multi-party system of government, ...

I disagree. That would only lead to more dis-unity. I say that ALL political parties should be disolved. Why is the party important? It's not. As an American, if I think I can help in the management and government of my State and Country, why do I need to declare my political party affiliation? It serves no purpose other than to divide the people.

One of the BIGGEST insults that was given to a politician during the time of our founding fathers, was to call him a "party" man, in other words, a partisan. Because it meant that he was of un-sound mind, and was incapable of upholding his principles, instead he had to be led by leash by his party members, like a dog. That's what our political leaders have become, dogs to be led by the leash by someone else, no convictions whatsoever.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Representative Government has come to mean, Washington is open to business to represent any foreign interest from the London Banking Cartels, to the nation of Israel, to how to turn China into the biggest manufacturing and consumer market in the world. Bring enough money to the table and the ‘free’ ever trusting and gullible citizens can be gotten to do anything when Madison Avenue and Hollywood finish spinning it in the right way for us.

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Well put