H.R. 1388 - "Required Service" and "Mandatory Volunteer"

Again,based on the insanity we've witnessed in the past few weeks,or even days ie,the AIG mess,I have NO reason to believe in or trust that such a bill wouldn't say one thing and MEAN something entirely different.

Are there bonuses issued for services rendered?

How many subjects lately have been presented to we the people that were simply smokescreens for the larger disasters playing out in the background.

I don't trust it one bit,no matter how it's "written" or what is intended by it.

It will be abused.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by irishchic]

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by maybereal11

 

The 13th amendment SPECIFICALLY BANS FORCED SERVITUDE!!!

Well that is confusing. The 13th amendment was written in 1865...how did the draft come to be?

I think you are confusing the word "Service" as in Community Service with "Servitude". Notice the word Community? Community service IS NOT serving the Government, it is serving your community.

I would think the distinction would be plain as day..

Originally posted by LibertyLover
Many US high schools already have a certain number mandatory public service hours required of their students in order for them to graduate. I don't see the problem with that and I don't see the problem with investigating requiring young people on a national level to do public service work, so long as the hours already required by high schools for graduation were included in computation of that national requirement.

I don't believe you are thinking this through. Once the Government legislates itself a power it can apply it to whatever situation it wishes. What if your child were required to provide labor to a project you were morally opposed to? You would have no right as a Parent to stop it from happening.

What if during this mandatory service they decided to teach our children to be good little Citizens their way? What if they teach them something contrary to your beliefs?

Look what happened to the Peace Corps that became nothing more than an arm of US Intelligence.

www.nytimes.com...

Prime example of how the term "service" can be changed depending on the need or situation.
Necessity shall dictate any "service" under this bill no doubt.

reply to post by maybereal11


When the government mandates it, YES it IS serving the government.
Fixing roads, whatever, is the DOT's job for the government.

13th Amendment -

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Servitude-

From Merriam-Webster -

1 : a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life

As to the Draft, it is a seperate issue entirely.

Article1, Section 8 regarding the powers of Congress -

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To raise and support Armies gives Congress the power to institute a draft, but only for War. This would be the first time I believe the Government has attempted to have mandatory participation in any other way or form.

[edit on 3/18/2009 by Blaine91555]

Come on you guys, it says Volunteer and--- just like your taxes.... They are Voluntary..... wait a minute..... !

They are living in a fantasy world if they think they could force me to do anything. I'd tell them where they could stick it if they came up to me with garbage. I can clean my own place, I can feed myself, I can shovel my elderly neighbors sidewalk when it snows, I can choose what I want to do to "help" the community and myself just as i can wipe my own butt without the government telling me that I "have" to do what they tell me to do. Makes me think of those people who tell their kids they "have" to go to church without giving a reason rather than letting them choose what they want to believe in. Whoever is for this is either ignorant or just stupid.

Originally posted by jeffsmathers
Come on you guys, it says Volunteer and--- just like your taxes.... They are Voluntary..... wait a minute..... !

To participate in a discussion it is wise to read all of the topic and linked material. The word "mandatory" is in the Bill if you read it.

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Because it's the Government forcing us into doing what they SHOULD be doing but that they blew the budget big time, and now need all the more from us to do their job.

What is it you think community service means? Filling pot-holes? Building roads? What is it the government does now that you think they are going to force you to do for them instead becuase of the budget? Think...Does your premise make sense?

Um... Take care of people? Hire people to do the caring of the elderly and infirm? Support the homeless? Rescue the ones who are losing their home? Establish soup kitchens? Ad infinitum...?

Wow. This is what you think the government is going to force you to do through community service??

Or are you just saying that the government should hire people to take care of our elderly so we shouldn't have to visit them and such???

The government is going to force you to start a soup kitchen??

* I ask again...what is it that you think the government does now that they are going force you to do for them instead via COMMUNITY service?

This is a proposal to explore the possibility of including community service in school programs...and it is something that our children should learn and frankly something that most modern day parents aren't teaching them.

This is what churches encourage, you'd think there wouldn't be such a push back from the right wing, but I guess when the opportunity arises to spin something into an Obama bash piece...values be damned.

I admit that I misread your question. There ISN'T anything they're doing now that they would force us to do. But they want the ability to force us to do things on their whim. That may include feeding and sheltering and whatnot. It may include serving food at a soup kitchen. It may include hot work in the hot sun. Who TF knows what they may need their slaves to handle.

Once they have the power to declare something "community service," and once they have the power of conscripting you to that "service," they can make you do most anything.

[edit on 3/18/2009 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by pteridine
Perhaps service of some sort should be required to vote. It wouldn't have to be military, it could be any service. Six months to a year, maybe summers in the last two high school years.

One of the reasons the Veitnam war was such a mess was because MOST of them were in a war they didn't believe in and were forced to fight in, in a country that wasn't about defending there own .

Today we have an all volunteer Military and it is superb compared to then. I think Volunteerism in young peoples programs where there is equal access for all and not four year college grads etc, where they can earn some sort of education is a SPLENDID IDEA!

As Long as it does NOT infringe on ones own pursuit of happienss which is endowed by my creator.

NO authority is higher than that, NOT EVEN the President and is WHY such seemingly religious tenets of our constitution are in there. So things like volunteerim, STAY Volunteerism and that my pursuit of my own happiness stays my RIGHT and NOT a privilege. That it is NOT something granted by the state and revoked by the state. The ONLY thing that has been the enemy of Communism is Religion and where ever religion was left to be attacked as it is today, the STATE Government became GOD.

I LIKE a two party system where separate but distinct Ideologies would hash it out about a unique new form of Government called the American experiment. We would have a system that would ride the middle of the road between Government and the Private sector, between Atheism and Religion, between socialism and capitalism.

We and our respective worldviews would vote for represenatives that would take care of the day to day responsibilities while the rest of us worked and raised families with the freedom to instill our secular or religious family values.

SOMEWHERE down the road ,, we got apathetic and Government was in bed with the private sector and pitted we the people against eachother.

We see this everyday here and I am begining to see places like this exploit it. We have Gay against straight, Atheist against Christian, Liberal against Conservative, Socialist against Capitalist, Republican against Democrat and Facist against Communist and now I am even beginning to see the word "Racist" thrown around a lot and invariably it is the most asinine allegation of them all unless you are presumptuous to believe Blacks don't use ATS, NONE of them are Republican all the while they assume the person they are accusing is a white person on the otherside of that computer screen. I have nothing against passionate debate and among my interlocutors and appreciate the friends I have met here and the affinity for the ideals we share but their is something going on here, that draws very distinct and very extreme lines of demarcation between our worldviews where they are argued here better than they are argued in the halls of Congress and Senate.

The lines of demarcation are merged in our house and senate and our two party system has become one and our private sector has been gobbled up and become Corporations in Bed with that Government, Our Church's have become apostate Church's our Schools have become training centers where a new religion is taught and parents are losing the ear of their children.

They are being taught God is Dead, Sex is cool without accountability without restraint, sexual behavior is a class distinction which means we are defined by who we have sex with and evolution means we are no better than animals just the product of our primal common ancestor and their primal urges all the while they are growing up infront of a computer SATURATED with pornography. The sophisticated english language is getting blurred to whatever the latest acronym is on the schools texting list. Atheists have churchs and Protestants are allowing gays to marry while catholics are finally getting their house in order at last but no one will ever let them live down their past and we will hear Religion as the root of all evil while the Government says it will take care of all our needs as long as they can have all our money. We got kids shooting eachother in highschools and hell shooting going on all the time but we want to keep our guns but MOST of the time where ever their was a crime being committed by someone with a gun, WE LEFT OURS AT HOME.

in the mean time our Government tells us we want your guns and now we don't even have the one we left at home but tthe crook?? He keeps his.

Cops always get there just in time to write a report or find you dead.

We need more cops!

We Need More religion

We need more Freedom

We Need more Socialsim

We need more Sexualism

We Need more Atheists

We need more Christians

We need more Money

We need more military

We need more security

We need less taxes

We need less religous Oppression

We need less Prejudice

We need less parental guidance

We need less evolution

We need less liberals

We need less Rightwingers

We need less Guns

Ya know what we need!

They got us running around here like a chicken with our heads cut off.

We all need EACH OTHER and we all need less ATS but it happens to be the only place I know where I can find out what the hell is going on in the world and until we get rid of the entire state and federal government, www.abovetopsecret.com...

They will continue to do their dog and pony act pitting us against eachother and the banks get more or less of ANYTHING because they,,

will be in charge of

EVERYTHING

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by maybereal11

 

The 13th amendment SPECIFICALLY BANS FORCED SERVITUDE!!!

Well that is confusing. The 13th amendment was written in 1865...how did the draft come to be?

I think you are confusing the word "Service" as in Community Service with "Servitude". Notice the word Community? Community service IS NOT serving the Government, it is serving your community.

I would think the distinction would be plain as day..

There is a BIG difference between Service - a behavior that comes from the heart, and Forced Servitude - which is what this bill is talking about. Call it "community service," if we have NO CHOICE it is forced servitude.

And so... Our 13th Amendment is under attack too.

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by maybereal11

 

The 13th amendment SPECIFICALLY BANS FORCED SERVITUDE!!!

Well that is confusing. The 13th amendment was written in 1865...how did the draft come to be?

I think you are confusing the word "Service" as in Community Service with "Servitude". Notice the word Community? Community service IS NOT serving the Government, it is serving your community.

I would think the distinction would be plain as day..

Maybereal I have always disagreed with your ignorance on topics and this time is no exception. Service is something you get when you pay for it. Servitude is what do involuntarily as a slave. Involuntary Servitude is slavery and just because the Government doesn't know that doesn't mean I DON'T! So when the Government tells me to give the governed my involuntary (mandatory) service (servitude) I am essentially someones slave so GET A FREAKIN CLUE SON!

Originally posted by Aermacchi
We all need EACH OTHER and we all need less ATS but it happens to be the only place I know where I can find out what the hell is going on in the world and until we get rid of the entire state and federal government,

Though some are tired of my mentioning my solution... I invite you to read my book. The intro and the book itself are linked in my sig.

Today it's mandatory volunteer service(an oxymoron).

Tomorrow it's sweat shops where we are forced to make jack boots and uniforms for the thugs.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by John Matrix

 

In the above post, you said:

"I for one would NEVER bring a child into this world to one day have to look them in the face and tell them they have to go and join the military, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Having a child under those circumstances is insane."

I suppose every child,born after 1917 was born to insane parents then, in the US, since that year, the selective service was enacted, requiring (another word for mandatory) young men who turn 18 to register to be drafted (another word for mandatory) to die in a war.

My own son will have to so next month.

I would much rather my son be allowed to go to college and perform his 100 hours, then have to sign up to die for other men's battles. However, as it stands, we already mandate citizens lives in our country. This POTENTIAL mandate has more positives than a draft, and the draft is already mandated.

I don't see a problem with discussing the concept, and seeing what pans out. There is enormous good and positive to be had with a well thought out program.

My concern is that we have idiots running our country, who do not know what they are doing.

The concept to me is fine. Once enacted, I may change my mind if the program is not in line with what Obama proposed on the campaign trail.

Ironically, that same military you say you wouldn't want your son to be a part of is the same one the sons and daugters of our forefathers died fighting for your right to NOT have a Government tell you what you should do for the community. I know our country has been in wars that were not always about us in the long large scheme of things I will never NOT give my respect and appreciation for our sons and daughters in the armed forces including yours if that is ever the case.

House passes GIVE Act HR. 1388
It now goes to the Senate for approval.
Such a small article on FoxNews.com!

[edit on 18-3-2009 by Clearskies]

Still I will like to know where the money for this adventure will come from.

We have specific entries in our Constitution that abolish mandatory servitude to the government so I wonder how many parents will abide by that littler constitutional protection.

Still I see this to become nothing more than a big fat failure at the expenses of tax payer money.

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Ironically, that same military you say you wouldn't want your son to be a part of is the same one the sons and daugters of our forefathers died fighting for your right to NOT have a Government tell you what you should do for the community. I know our country has been in wars that were not always about us in the long large scheme of things I will never NOT give my respect and appreciation for our sons and daughters in the armed forces including yours if that is ever the case.

I understand that very well. It was a different time, different world, different threat and we didn't have the ability back then to fight our wars from behind computer screens from many miles away.

I got a bit side tracked too....since this thread is about mandatory volunteer civil/community service, rather than a draft for military service.

Many of us tried to warn the electorate of this plan during the campaign. Perhaps, at this point, it would be appropriate to post Rahm Emanuel's exact quotes from his book, The Plan:

All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service.

source for above and below: blog.heritage.org...

In a 2006 radio interview Rahm explains more about the program. He speaks about the dangers of a chemical attack and about the wonderful common experience that all Americans could have by being drafted for 3 months into a civilian national security force training program. He seems to be using the fear of attack to justify drafting all youth into a militaristic civilian security force – something more reminiscent of a dictatorship than a democracy. And all of his calls to unity and common experience only confirm his preference for nationalism or collectivism over individualism and freedom. That Obama has chosen this man as his chief of staff should give anyone pause. This man has a “Plan” for the country that involves training our youth like soldiers, and calls upon “a new patriotism that brings us together again in a common mission” for his plan which will “unite us in a higher national purpose.”

It is indeed ironic, that Rahm wants to institute this, and in Nazi Germany, Rohm founded and led the Sturmabteilung (the SA). Rahm worked with Obama prior to the election on this, and other socialist efforts, and Rohm and Hitler worked together on the national socialistic agenda. In 1934, Hitler turned on Rohm, and had him executed. Will Obama turn on Rahm, if things do not go well?


Finally, for those who didn't see this the first time, is this what Rahm and Obama have in mind for the mandatory training: