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H.R. 1388 - "Required Service" and "Mandatory Volunteer"

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posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 01:36 PM
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I'm all for volunteering and community service, but this...Let me just say that the first thing that comes to mind is Hitler's SS. Yes, a very slippery slope indeed.

I don't think this has been posted yet:

Info on H.R. 1388

This link gives the full text of the bill and also gives links the committee assignments that this bill is before. I suggest everyone contact the members of these committees and voice your opinion.

Also, this link provides a listing of other related bills. Looking through them, they look to be all basically promoting the same thing - Can we require civil service...And how can we successfully go about that.

Related bills:
H.Res. 250
S.243
H.R. 524
H.R. 1444

We must watch them all because if any one of them passes...




posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 01:44 PM
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What they do north of the border in Ontario is require kids to do 40 hrs of community service to graduate. They do this between 10th and 12th grades....which gives them 3 years to do it.

This is something I could accept, and I think it should be looked at.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
What are the drawbacks?


Any power the Government gives itself it abuses. This may be innocuous on its face but it establishes the Governments power to exact mandatory service upon us.

I don't think it is a matter of whether the idea is good or bad, its what will the Government use its new power for in the future. Given the Governments track record, we can only assume it will abuse this power in some way.

Mandatory work is by definition Slavery. Do you truly trust the Government to not abuse this? I can not. Even if you trust Obama, which I no longer do, what about the next President or Congress?

[edit on 3/18/2009 by Blaine91555]



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


Mandatory (forced) service is desirable over voluntary (unforced) service? Should we give the Government power that trumps the power of a Parent? Do you trust them that much and that far?



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

I would much rather my son be allowed to go to college and perform his 100 hours, then have to sign up to die for other men's battles.


We no longer have a draft and our Military is all voluntary. There is nobody in the Military that did not join voluntarily.

Why would you not prefer these youth programs to be voluntary as well. Why would anyone want them to be mandatory?



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by Stella Lotus
 


That sounds all nice and noble, but most people never heard Obama talk about these wacky freedom robbing ideas of his. And of course the media didn't have anything to do with the outcome did they?

This isn't the "macro" change anyone voted for.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by John Matrix
 


Mandatory (forced) service is desirable over voluntary (unforced) service? Should we give the Government power that trumps the power of a Parent? Do you trust them that much and that far?


I'm on your side with this issue. I think you misread me. All I'm saying is that if a small amount of community service is part of our high school curriculum, it teaches kids a sense of community. You don't force them to do it, you just tell them they need it to graduate, just like they need a passing grade in science and math, etc. to pass.

[edit on 18/3/09 by John Matrix]



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by pteridine
Perhaps service of some sort should be required to vote. It wouldn't have to be military, it could be any service. Six months to a year, maybe summers in the last two high school years.


Ask a politician to do the first 6 months of service for nothing and see what happens. You can't ask for 6 months of someone's time without offering earnings and benefits, that would be worse than slavery. I think they call it prison.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
And, I would love to volunteer for the Peace Corps, now that the kids are nearly grown. But they only take people with four yr degrees, so unless I get wealthy overnight, I can't do that. But I can do things with in my community, I believe community service is a good thing,...


I have no issues with you doing things your heart moves you to do. By all means, do what you are called to do.


...and if more kids were required to perform it before they even got out of school, they could gain valuable networking contacts for their future, use it on future resumes, for college entrance, etc. There are many benefits.


Here's the thing... First, to REQUIRE this of them is a good recipe for resentment. Second, it does not teach the heart connection that all truly good works spring from. Third, it places others' values on them. And fouth (and most primary) it robs freedom to choose one's own values.


If classes like PE are required, why not community service?


Because physical education is focused on the personal development of each, irrespective of any others. Forces "service" entangles the slave to the master.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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This is why so many states are declaring sovereignty. It’s not only about gun laws. My state is one of them. I don’t know how all this will play out. If my suspicions are right it will be part of the NWO. We must answer to the dictator or else! The words "Mandatory and Freedom" do not coexist.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by Erasurehead
 


Although I have reservations as I have said and am curious about what will come out, I have to say that 100 hours a week for college students is a pretty realistic starting point.

If he's starting out asking for basically 2 hours a week (translating into maybe one saturday or sunday each month), I suspect he'd be willing to cut that down to about half, either through exceptions or through an hour reduction.

So I'm actually given some hope that this won't end up being too big of a deal.

If all they're doing is creating the impetus for me and my neighbors to go out one weekend and create a firebreak that might save our homes next fire season, or getting my grandma out to the library to read to bilingual kids in english (as opposed to sitting at home and complaining about how she can't understand people with thick accents- in her usual southern drawl of course), I don't really see a problem.
Citizens should use the government as a tool to organize themselves in tasks which are important to their collective well being.

It may be inconvenient or unfamiliar, but one of the critical factors will end up being whether the program benefits us more than we benefit the program. If we get added value for our input, it's a good investment.

The program seems likely to compromise itself down to acceptable levels of burden- which is to say it won't be a substantial investment- each of us may end up putting in a few days low-intensity work and a hundred bucks in taxes or so- so what remains is the larger but more distant question of whether or not there will be any return on the investment.

The probable answer: yes, but never enough. That will cause exemptions and reductions in requirements and funding after a few years, and the program will ultimately become a recognizable but unimportant truly volunteer student organization to which we pay about as much attention to as the JROTC and the 4H.

Frankly, as long as the opponents of the program don't dig in and render themselves irrelevant, but instead compromise to limit the scope of this little experiment, the lessons we are likely to learn in the event of failure may be worth a modest expense.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by 2 cents

Also, what do you propose happen if someone refuses to serve in this mandatory service?

A fine?

what if someone refuses to pay the fines?



They should go in the stocks - where their former friends and neighbours cna show just what they think of nasty self centred arrogants nobodies who have no respect or consideration for others!

Why wouldn't someone want to give something back to the community and help others? And if we all volunteered to do it, they're be no need for compulsion



I wonder how many regular posters to ATS also regularly do voluntary work of some kind to benefit others and/or their community?

(And before you ask, my answer's in my signature!)


Sorry bro but I'm too busy working 40+ hours a week full time AND going to school to HAVE TIME to serve 100 hours of community service!

Involuntarily!

They can take this crap legislation and shove it. Read the 13th amendment PLEASE. Friggin traitors.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by hypervigilant
Let me see, " Anything mandatory is dangerous". That would include seat belts, air bags, safety rails, pasteurized milk, expiration dates on food and medicine, electrical codes, stop signs, turn signals, school zone speed limits, zoning laws, motorcycle and bicycle helmets, bike reflectors, drivers licences, blade guards on circular saws, shatter proof auto glass, warning labels on poisonous materials, power tools, ladders, chain saws, car jacks, rear view mirrors, hair dryers, heating pads, cigarette packs, appliances, plastic bags, toys, garage doors, aerosol cans, auto gas caps, jet skis, and so many other things that the list of things that are mandatory could go on for longer than I want to think about..... All of this danger makes me wonder why any of us are still alive.


I look at your list and see things that are not mandatory, per se, but are things that IF you wish to partake of something (drive a car, produce foods and drugs, ride bikes, make saws, make potentially dangerous products, and so on) THEN you have to follow mandatory requirements.

NOT mandatory driving of cars, NOT mandatory production of good, NOT riding of bikes...

These things in and of themselves are NOT mandatory. We have a choice. We can NOT drive cars and so the rules don't apply to us. We can NOT choose to produce goods and so the rules don't apply. We can choose NOT to ride bikes and then the rules don't apply.

We cannot choose to NOT be a child (or an adult or a senior or whatever). And that would be what we would have to choose NOT to be if we don't want to follow these proposed slavery-in-disguise mandatory "service" rules.

[edit on 3/18/2009 by Amaterasu]



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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For me the Word "Volantary" has 2 meanings. either one or both can be used to manipulate the system in this case. In simple terms "Volantary" usually refers to an action taken by somebody by their own will. Secondly it could be interprated as "A task undertaken without reward i.e pay"
So just a though; Mandatory and voluntary could be twisted together if they wanted to. i.e "Forced Activities upon someone without pay". Not something that is likely, but just a thought.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:31 PM
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Again -- this should face some serious legal problems as the Federal Government has no such authority. Even more serious problems from states standing up with the 10th amendment rights. In that sense, this sort of thing can be good news as it will force the states to prove they are really standing up form the rights of the individual and the state and recognizing the limits of the feds.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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Many US high schools already have a certain number mandatory public service hours required of their students in order for them to graduate. I don't see the problem with that and I don't see the problem with investigating requiring young people on a national level to do public service work, so long as the hours already required by high schools for graduation were included in computation of that national requirement.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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Okay...now that we have reached the fever pitch of likening this to Hitler's SS...LOL..let's calm down and actually read and think.



(6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.


This is not the SS. This isn't even the Draft sending unwilling souls off to fight wars. This is not about serving the government, it is about serving each other as a nation.

This is proposing studying...just studying.. mandatory COMMUNITY service for young people.

School is mandatory for children in this country..Public, Private, home whatever.

If part of that curriculum included community service, cleaning up a park or vacant lot in the city, planting trees in your neighborhood, spending a Saturday at the retirement home talking to elderly without family etc. then YES I am all for teaching kids those values.

I volunteered with a church to clean out units of public housing in Cabrini Green for new tenants. I swept children’s toys, diapers and heroin needles into one pile on the floor and stared at it for a long time. There are lessons to be learned from public service.

We are Members of one another (Ephesians 4:25)

We are one people..Americans have always been an independent people, that is one of our greatest strengths, but recently that independence has been traded by many for selfishness, greed and corruption. Me ..Me ..Me, we don't think about our neighbors or the legacy we leave behind, just about making as much money however possible before we die. …and that is what many people are teaching their children.

I am all for teaching community service to our youth and though this is just a PROPOSAL to EXPLORE the idea...I am all for it!

I have said my piece now go ahead and return to your scheduled "programming"...in case you forgot where you left off...

Obama is Hitler looking to start a new SS...

I asked myself why I feel the need to post on crazy hate filled spin threads like this and in the end it is because I still consider the most fevered, far reaching, Obama hating posters my brothers and sisters..Americans first Ideologues second…products/victims of the culture wars..now that is a war worth ending as soon as possible!



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by Essan
I know a lot of people it would do a lot of good if we did that.


And here is a prime example of one thinking his values are above others.

Everybody "knows better."

We pay a phenominal amount of taxes (a form of slavery) already, and the gazillions collected on the Federal level...go to pay our debt, and nothing more.

If spending had been kept within the confines of money taken in, we could be spending this money to pay people to do all the things they now want "volunteers" for. It is rather arrogant to suppose that because we have problems that our government has been "forced" into this action when a good look at things shows that, in fact, they did it to themselves (war spending being one of the biggest expenditures we have ever made).

So, regardless of who got whom into what, it is extremely anti-Americvan to FORCE anyone directly. It is anti-freedom, and freedom should be our primary concern.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by pteridine
Perhaps service of some sort should be required to vote. It wouldn't have to be military, it could be any service. Six months to a year, maybe summers in the last two high school years.


At first read I thought this might be a good thing - except... The right to vote is ours and ANY infringement on that right is UnAmerican.

I have no issues with those who are receiving services being required to perform service in exchange for service. It then is a choice. But requiring all people to do anything, regardless of their choices, THAT's wrong.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by LibertyLover
Many US high schools already have a certain number mandatory public service hours required of their students in order for them to graduate. I don't see the problem with that and I don't see the problem with investigating requiring young people on a national level to do public service work, so long as the hours already required by high schools for graduation were included in computation of that national requirement.


Because it's the Government forcing us into doing what they SHOULD be doing but that they blew the budget big time, and now need all the more from us to do their job.




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