H.R. 1388 - "Required Service" and "Mandatory Volunteer"

If you take the time to read the bill and can understand legaleese, it is a thinly veiled way for them (whoever 'they' are...) to indoctrinate children into whatever way of thinking that they want. They want to start this program in middle or high-school and couch it under "community enrichment" - complete with coursework.

Like I stated earlier - I am sure that there are good intentions behind the bill, but it's anything but.

If folk developed a sense of social responsibility and cared for their neighbourhood instead of trashing it and expecting someone else to put it right, this wouldn't be necessary

Sh*t in your beds and eventually someone has to take punitive measures to stop it.

Maybe if kids voluntarily picked up litter and cleaned graffiti instead of spraying it, your govt wouldn't be thinking of whether such things should be made compulsory to try and knock some sense into them and get them to value what they have.

Mind, we had National Service in the UK until the late 60s (?) and it never hurt us. Many think it should be brought back. With options for non martial work for those so inclined. I know a lot of people it would do a lot of good if we did that. My guess is the US govt are thinking likewise.

I know you guys didnt read my post on the previous page.

Anytime you have VOLUNTARY: It equals MANDATORY. Its not going to be different here than in an insignificant little place like Cuba.

Stop kidding yourselves!!!!

I have heard enough Communist terminology lately to make me want to puke.

reply to post by Essan


In our nation we are not forced to do what we don't want to do, forcing younger children into a new system of control and manipulation in order to obtain employment and education is nothing more than control communism.

Sorry but I will darn If I am going to submit to any government way of control.

If you are happy with this be my guess and submit to it, anyway you see it this will become another government money scam at the expenses of tax payers and like the corruption running rampant within our government this will have the sign for failure.

Perhaps service of some sort should be required to vote. It wouldn't have to be military, it could be any service. Six months to a year, maybe summers in the last two high school years.

Originally posted by Aermacchi

This USED to be a Country where you KNEW your contribution was from the heart because you did it on your own volition

I swear I see more of this from young people everyday and they haven't a clue how slippery a slope this kind of garbage will take us

Speaking from the UK here...
I would personally welcome the "community service" to youngsters option that was spoken about earlier in this thread. I would also welcome a form of military service to youngsters (say do three months between 16 and 18 that is literally the same as cadets, you do not mobilise or anything preposterous like that).
Yes, I understand that it is forcing people to do things, I understand you are terming this as "slavery" (but it isn't really that is it).

So what is a kids "contribution from the heart"? Are you telling me that you have kids in the US already (and I mean a large number here including the feral ones) that go out of their way to help the community? B and S spring to mind. The only thing the Playstation Generation do of their own volition is eat chocolate and watch TV

So, what do YOU propose? That kids go on doing what they do now? The majority of the Playstation Generation do sweet Fanny Adams all day. A lot of youths in the UK are feral and lack discipline in the home. They sit on youtube all day long rotting their brains and if it isn't youtube it is the television etc etc etc.

Point being, teenagers in the UK are becoming increasingly feral and need guidance, a sense of discipline and direction (and by direction I do not mean brainwash them into the armed forces). Obesity is almost as bad as smoking according to the BBC and something needs to be done to get them off their behinds and growing a sense of responsibility.
Otherwise the world will just have generation after generation of fat kids watching TV all day.

I think that this bill, if used correctly, is a positive.

Originally posted by george_gaz

Point being, teenagers in the UK are becoming increasingly feral and need guidance, a sense of discipline and direction (and by direction I do not mean brainwash them into the armed forces).

Darn I remember, I just remember that until my generation that was the job off . . . yeah parenthood!!!, didn't we used to have parents that did that job?

Or that now is for the government to do.

I raised two respectable, able and capable citizens so guess what it was my job as a parent to made them productive for society, not the government, not my neighbors job, or the police.

Perhaps parents are the ones that need to be taught what the role of parenthood is all about.

reply to post by mpriebe81


From above post:

"Now how would you feel if they chose YOUR children to dig ditches or pick up garbage along the freeway? We don't even know what kind of services that they truly plan on providing with this bill, but I would imagine that some of it would not be very pretty.
And what if it conflicted with what your children or anybody else's wanted to do with their lives?"

One. How would I feel? I would encourage my children, as I always do, to focus on and take away the positive in the experience, whatever that may be, whether in digging ditches, to picking up litter.

And two, how in the world is a few months of service to your community going to interfere with anyones life plans? Maybe that is part of the problem with our country. We are so worried about ourselves, we forget man cannot exist in a vacuum, and we are all part of a community, and society at large. It isnt always about me.(me in general).

reply to post by marg6043


Yes, I completely agree.
So, what has happened?
The parents have failed to do their job ...
Why?
Possibly because they lacked discipline, direction and guidance .... (possibly since the collapse of the National Service spoken about earlier )

So what do we do? Do we let this spiral out of control onto a slippery slope or should we step in?

The single biggest problem with government mandating charitable work is such programs are invariably bloated, costly, and grossly inefficient. This is because the impetus is political self-aggrandizement, not personal volition. So you end up with lots of PR glossies of men in business suits wearing chrome hardhats and holding shovels, and not enough actual 'work' being accomplished.

If some worthy goal is to be pursued, then the state and local community itself has historically stepped in to accept the challenge. As federal government stumbles in "to help", such local volunteerism fades, as folks get the impression that 'someone else' is already doing it. Enough "help" from Washington via legislation and well-meaning but wasted funding, and you'll see what we have today-- a disinterest in volunteering.

As usual, our intrepid leaders are doing precisely the opposite of what needs to be done to solve a problem.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I am not young, I will be forty this year.

And, I would love to volunteer for the Peace Corps, now that the kids are nearly grown. But they only take people with four yr degrees, so unless I get wealthy overnight, I can't do that. But I can do things with in my community, I believe community service is a good thing, and if more kids were required to perform it before they even got out of school, they could gain valuable networking contacts for their future, use it on future resumes, for college entrance, etc. There are many benefits.

If classes like PE are required, why not community service?

Before you rush out to "volunteer" you better read the fine print honey. By my estimates, a force of 700,000+ will be needed for an Iraqi style occupation of a bombed out Iran.


Breath deep, that's DU you'll be sniffing.

Do you people who support this have any idea what you are getting into? Did you know this mandatory civil service will really be an army? Did you know that this army is going straight to the battlefield in times of war? Do you have any idea.... how communist America is?

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I would support a mandatory service if it were for community service, not being sent overseas to fight in wars. It would not hurt any American to put in so many hours of mandatory community service, and it could be a very positive experience, in which our youth can grow and learn what rewards come with giving of ourselves. What are the drawbacks?

I see. So you think it is ok to rob people of their freedom? The drawbacks are that it is intrusive, draconian, and impressing your values onto others. It is anti-freedom.

If it is such a good experience, people would be volunteering, and not NEED to be forced.

And, on top of that, it impresses the government all the further into our private lives.

I agree, i think everyone at 18 should serve this country either community or military, whatever. these kids these days need it. you say they should volunteer? who the hell is volunteering? it should be mandatory, then maybe, just maybe a little sense of pride might return to this great nation.

I saved a screenshot from the election before this information was removed from Obamas web site. Lets see 50 hours of mandatory service for middle and high school kids and 100 hours per year for people in college. Sounds like forced labor to me. What will the penalty be if service is refused?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ca346c33d712.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 3/18/2009 by Erasurehead]

reply to post by Erasurehead


That sounded better than what he is planning now, the new plan may replace the other programs to consolidate into one, call the "corporation".

The change now is shady, dubious and scary, I don't agree with that "data base" that the "corporation" will keep of the "volunteers".

It seems that the corporation will take the job of how hiring and selection of "candidates" my take place.

Sounds like another bloated over achievement program that as many other endeavors before will die after squandering tax payer money.

Wait A Minute! You guys should be thrilled to death about this bill...you know since Great Obama is supporting this bill. You guys voted for the obama and now we will suffer because of it.

I've got just one question to all those who think that this is not such a bad idea.
Just what do you think should be done if someone refuses to do the mandatory "service"?

reply to post by Erasurehead


Maybe there should be an advantage if the work is completed rather than a penalty if it is refused.
When I think of service, I think more of a WPA type of program where our young can help build and maintain public parks, help with inner city projects, and generally learn how to be responsible citizens. Many lack self-discipline and are totally engrossed in their own limited worlds. Some parents have abdicated their responsibilities and, unless we want yet another generation of self-centered drones, we should do something other than listen to the demands of those that claim non-existent "rights" so that they may then live off the backs of others.
When we run our schools year around, there could be a school requirement for service. A few weeks a year, the students could be transported to an event that would help local people and when they were older, spend the summer at a National Park working the grounds. Many schools require community service for graduation, already, so this would not be a major burden for anyone.

Why don't the people who voted for Obama be "forced" to do it, while those who didn't, can volunteer IF they want to?

Sounds fair and democratic to me.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by Flighty]

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I would support a mandatory service if it were for community service, not being sent overseas to fight in wars. It would not hurt any American to put in so many hours of mandatory community service, and it could be a very positive experience, in which our youth can grow and learn what rewards come with giving of ourselves. What are the drawbacks?

You are advocating slavery!! Mandatory is not even a polite way of saying "forced slavery". I thought forced slavery was a criminal act. It makes the fuss over buying clothing from countries running sweat shops seem hypocritical.

Besides, working people are doing community service because they pay taxes and raise families to carry on the legacy of the country. People who think they own property pay property taxes, which really makes them caretakers, not owners, and that's also slavery.

The gov. should look into why recruitment was way up in the 90's and then suddenly dropped under the GWB "Reign of Terror".

Perhaps, the gov. can look at having immigrants do mandatory military service before they can take up residence or apply for citizenship. Perhaps not putting troops into situations where they are sitting ducks for roadside bombs, sniper attacks, and suicide bombers would help. Perhaps taking better care of the vets when they come home would encourage people to sign up for service.

I hope you rethink your position. I for one would NEVER bring a child into this world to one day have to look them in the face and tell them they have to go and join the military, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Having a child under those circumstances is insane.