Fighting infection when the docs/hospitals are down.

Hi all,

I sit here posting this after a trip back to the dentist to sort out an infection from having a tooth pulled the other day.

The gum has hurt ever since my visit last week, i've used painkillers and anti-imflammatories, and have salt water rinsed twice daily....but it still got infected.

So after throwing up and almost fainting for a couple of days, i went back to the dentist who was great. Flushed it with iodine, packed it with a clove oil dressing and gave me antibiotics for a week. Sorted.

However it got me thinking what would have happened if the hospitals, doctors surgeries and pharmacies were down?

Putting aside answers like "prevention is best", as i did everything i could to prevent this.....what would you recommend for antibiotics that you have to provide yourself?

Whilst we are on the subject, i bought a jar or high strength Manuka honey, seems to be very good against many infections. I like the tase anyway.

So yeah.....infections.....i can deal with most first aid incidents, but infections are an area that i would like to learn more about dealing with WTSHTF.

Thanks,

CX.

Since the FDA has made it illegal to prescribe anything but a "drug" to cure a "disease" it is therefore illegal to state that an ORANGE can cure SCURVY.
So therefore, in my OPINION, stocking up on honey, hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, iodine, bandages, hemostats, VITAMINS, ether, and ordering a natual survival medical book or guide my just save your life or the life of someone you know in an emergency.

A good stock of oral antibiotics would be benificial in addition to the above. Its hard but not impossible to obtain these legaly.

If it were only going to be one I would get Zithromax. Easy to store, and provided good gram positive coverage and decent gram negative. IV antibiotics are a whole differnt beastie and unless you have training and are skilld are more likely to kill than save.

Also a PDR or physicians desk reference would be handy to help you idedtify meds you loot....errrrr find

Originally posted by dashen
ordering a natual survival medical book or guide my just save your life or the life of someone you know in an emergency.

yep, those books are really handy. The only reason I go to flea Markets is for books and stuff like that.

The likelyhood of hospitals and doctors not being there is virtually nil, though.

Also, if hospitals somehow become defunct, you better bet the internet would likely become unavailable as well, placing even more value on a collection of tangible books. No WebMD, ATS, AOL or even other communications would be avaliable, so your prepardness may make you a hero in your local community if all hell were to break loose.

There are other natural antibiotics such as lavender oil. In the event of blood poisoning, a good sweat while continuing to replace any water lost is also useful.

As previously stated, to say the use of these things will work is considered illegal, history has shown that natural methods worked quite well before the use of Big Pharm products.

BTW honey is an excellent help, using local also strengthens ones immune system, as again, history has shown.

~Holly

A few snippets I picked up on are
1 You can buy antibiotics from farm stores, fish farmers and vetenarians which are identical to ones used on humans, they just dont have the fancy paperwork to prove quality assurance, which wont be an issue after TSHTF
2 A lot of homepathic remedies have strong anti biotic properties
3 That honey you mention is highly reccomend in many circles
4 I'm told that the contents of the brown puffball fungus is a form of pennacillin
5 Buy ragnar Bensons books on Survival Nursing, and some other duds book called Where there Is No Doctor
6 Some folks stockpile dry powdered versions of anti biotics.

Death by septic infection would be a nasty way to go, and I think a vastly underrated threat.

Without anti-biotics, anti-septics, and the like, even the fittest and strongest individuals could be floored by an infected scratch or insect bite.

I've wondered whether 'under the kitchen sink' items such as the myriad kinds of anti-bacterial surface cleaners or bleaches could be diluted down enough to spray on a cut or other injury to minimise the chances of the injury getting infected?

edit to add:

even without access to any anti-bacterial plants or treatments, the two most basic methods would be to use saliva/urine...I've found saliva seems to work well on insect bites/stings, as does cauterising with a glowing cigarette ember

[edit on 17-3-2009 by citizen smith]

I learned a bit about this one the hard way recently.

I've always gotten hurt and never worried too much about treating injuries- probably because I grew up in a desert that offers lots and lots of direct sunlight, very little organic material, and very little moisture- it's not always easy to find a thriving community of germs to rub your wounds against out here.

But if you try long enough, it turns out you can do it. So, a very small puncture in my mid thigh from a furniture staple ended with me limping on a badly swollen, puss-filled wound that, for a while, I thought might get bad enough to keep me from walking very far.

I managed to escape the need to cut it open in order to drain and disinfect it, but if it had been much deeper or much more painful that's what it would have come to.

This suggests to me that since stockpiling antibiotics isn't a realistic option for me (and wouldn't be enough in a long-term Sit X anyway), it behooves me to identify both a local anesthetic and a disinfectant safe for use on deep wounds which can be easily made from either natural or easy to find materials.

So, added to my other list of survival chemistry that I need to add to my notebook, is how (in sitX conditions) to obtain sulfuric acid to be processed into hydrogen peroxide. No ideas on the anesthetic though.

Garlic has antibiotic properties.
Also, Cinnamon and Honey seem to be quite powerful, as can be read here.

Well, I don't know that you'd call it an anesthetic, but you could always grow some poppies. Papaver Somniferum, to be exact. I've done a little research, and it seems easy enough to extract the medicine from the pods. I have never done it myself, and won't unless the SHTF and it becomes necessary (a family member has chronic back pain), but in the meantime I'll have one of the prettiest backyards in the neighborhood.

Tea tree oil is another antiseptic.

Also when I was a kid I used to clean out "suss" looking scratches, nicks etc by putting a little bit of soft soap and sugar on a bandaid. The soap cleaned the wound, the sugar drew out the "badness". Supposedly. I do remember it working for small cuts/cat scratches etc that were starting to look a bit infected - but obviously not a good idea for deep or large wounds. By soft soap I don't mean liquid soap in a dispenser, but an ordinary cake of soap that's gone soft from exposure to water - you just scrape that bit off the soap and mix it with sugar.

It would be worthwhile researching the use of poultices, particularly herbal ones.

And are you up to date with your tetanus booster? Tetanus used to be known as "lockjaw" and there's a good reason it was called that.

Good idea to get all your jabs refreshed , that way should anything happen in the very near future , you'll be covered.
And whats with all the films showing someone pouring vodka and/or whiskey into a wound , does that actually work?
At least you can swig it.

reply to post by DataWraith


Good idea on the use of spirits...aneasthetic for the patient, and wound steriliser for the medic...two birds one stone

Salt water works wonders on superficial infections (scratches, ingrown toenails, etc.). My doctor even recommended that I go swimming at Galveston immediately after a major operation to help in the healing. It's also good to gargle for sore throats, rinse for problem gums/teeth, and put on in a paste to "draw the infection out", as my mother would say!

Some other ideas I have had are: wet tobacco for bee stings, any type of mint or menthol for sinus problems, and citrus fruits as antisceptic (can't remember where I heard that, but it makes some sense with the citric acid).

I take the easier option, deleting the post.



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[edit on Wed Mar 18 2009 by Jbird]

[edit on 19-3-2009 by Northern Raider]

reply to post by CX


Natures natural anti-biotic is OXYGEN, will kill all know anaerobes. Cheapest commercial type in concentration would be Hydrogen Perioxide, though it won't keep but maybe a year in a dark cool area, still woulda helped your tooth problem alot. There are some "stabilized oxygen"s on the market that work well for external(mouth is considered such), and a few that work internally VERY well, and, unlike HP, are not supposed to be toxic when taken internally. Don't know what I can say here, I'm new

From personal experience I can recommend oregano oil (particularly good for yeasts and fungi), stabilized liquid oxygen (or any of it’s other many names), colloidal silver in moderation and plenty of fresh garlic. These in combination have done wonders for me.

The most important factor though is a healthy and well functioning immune system. For this I recommend eliminating the worst of our western diet, things like processed foods, artificial sweeteners (and too much sugar), MSG, nitrates, HFCS, and hydrogenated lipids.

Make sure you get plenty of fresh fruits and veggies, juicing if you need to. Omega 3 and 6 lipids are essential. I prefer flax seed oil but fish oil works also. Combining these with a sulfur protein like cottage cheese helps absorption.

Go with the most local and organic food you can get. Your own garden is preferable of course.

If dead flesh is the problem then look at using maggots to eat it at away . Just be sure to flush the maggots away after they have served there purpose. This is more of a preventive measure then a cure thou . Sometimes mother nature can be your your best friend rather then your enemy .

Cheers xpert11 .

For burns or hunger, look for mint. Not too sure the range of it, but look for rocky shores that are sheltered, or marshy areas. Easily identified by the purple flowers, minty smell, and square stem and alternating spear-shaped leaves (some kinds don't have spear-shaped leaves.... so watch out). The stuff I find in the wild around here is water mint, which smells... not minty but sweet. Sorta like a meadow. Anyhow, just mash some up (after washing it) and apply it as a poultice on wounds....

Ummm for insect bites, summer savory or sage.

For discouraging mosquitos and bugs, catnip, pennyroyal (don't eat it), spear/pepper mint, tea tree, and oregano works good. just rub it on your skin....

Ummm if you have specific questions u2u me, I know a bit (ok, more than the average person). But I have to say, bullet-type wounds are NOT good and unless you have a doctor or someone who knows a surgery-type thing, I don't know what you should do. But antiseptic herbs might be good for infection (peppermint, oregano, etc... there's LOTS more)

Sage is really good for skin irritations of all manner of things.

Watch out with lavender: putting it on your skin can kill the cells or cause allergic reactions. Same with all essential oils- know what you are doing before hand; tea tree and oregano oils are OK to put direct on your skin, but still I would be careful because not all are OK depending on the concentration and species and quality.

The root of elecampane has VERY strong anti-septic properties...

for upset stomachs, eat peppermint...

Herb capsules are easy to keep on hand and certain herbs have antibiotic qualities. I keep Oil of Oregano on hand, as well as, Golden Seal and Tumeric. I figure if I don't have any antibiotics around when a disaster happens, at least I have those.