H.R. 1388 To Reauthorize and Reform the National Service Laws.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Really? To me this is an urban legend... a myth, as I've never seen any proof of this statement so wildly used.

Obviously you haven't read the links, nor the excerpts. This bill is giving all the power to something called The Corporation.

It eliminates all current Volunteer serve, and learn-based programs and gives the Corporation total control over the new Mandatory, and Voluntary service program. Plus the Corporation controls all the learn-based programs, which means indoctrination by the corporation, since in the bill states the Corporation has to teach teachers and professors, alongside students on whatever the Corporation decides is right.

Do yourself a favor and read the excerps before you keep puting your foot in your mouth.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
How do you make the jump between a service corp and learning from politicians?

...The bill is giving all the power to the CORPORATION. It is not a Boy Scout group, and it does not listen to the people...

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
By your logic we shouldn't even have a military, for fear our children will be like politicians.

There is a big difference between military personnel and politicians, unless you are talking about the military industrial complex, which should not even exist.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Oh I agree it does all start in the home... My Son was also in Boy Scouts and I was his Den Leader... which is WHY I SUPPORT this bill. I'd love to see every kid go through something like Cub Scouts...

Now as an American I want to see my fellow man care about their community, and since WE THE PEOPLE are doing such a piss poor job of it individually, I have asked my representatives to put together a program such as this.

Oh, so you want to be the nanny of All Americans, without giving them free choice?.... That's the making of a dictatorship...when someone like yourself thinks you have the right to tell others, in what is supposed to be a free society, what they should do...

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
They have listened to the will of the people and are doing so.

They have not listened to the will of the people. Obviously you don't even understand in what country you are living in... This is not a Democracy, this is a Republic, a representative Republic, in which the rights of all people are to be uphold.

In a Democracy 51% of the people can ban all rights of the other 49% of the people if the 51% vote for it, and that's not the country you are living in... You, and others like yourself should read the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights for starters. then read what the forefathers of this nation said we should safeguard the nation against, and what should never happen in this country...

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
You say Gov can only screw things up... well it looks like society is done a great job of screwing itself up if you ask me...

Really?... How did society screw everything up please tell us....

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Anti-intellectualism promoted as Americanism...
Religious values being promoted as American values
People believing that "get a haircut and get a real job" is somehow some sort of statement of individual freedom

You are promoting Anti-Americanism when you proclaim that you want all Americans to serve... It is the choice of every American whether he, or she wants to serve or not...not yours.... Unless of course you want to be a dictator, and you think you are the voice of the people, which you are not.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
If you don't want stuff like this to happen, then celebrate liberty and remove the divisions in our culture.. let freedom ring... Embrace the people you don't agree with as Americans... That is the only other way to get what you and I both want.

Until that time when we can come together as Americans, then Gov will have to facilitate it.

You should fist of all listen to yourself... In the one hand you want to dictate to all other Americans what they should do, and on the other hand you want to talk about liberty?.... Liberty for whom, only those who think like you?....

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
.......................

So if these assumptions of yours are so off base... what's to say your assumptions on this bill aren't just as off base?

[edit on 19-3-2009 by HunkaHunka]

We don't have a book telling us about what you went through life... on the other hand, we can clearly see what the bill is doing, which is not upholding the Constitution of this country, and it is not looking out for the people, but rather to the Corporation...

I was born in a Communist country which was like the United States at it's best... But then came a man claiming he would bring change, and he wanted to redistribute wealth, and that everything should be centralized and controlled by the government and everything would be fine, that the all the people would be equal.... and yes people are equal even now, equally poor, equally miserable, and equally controlled. This is what is happening to the United States, and this bill is part of the takeover.

I am feeling required already! Required to see that about 5 million peaceful protesters are on the mall and capital hill the day they want to vote on this.

Required to make sure that the only way they could break up such a peaceful demonstration would be with nuclear weapons!

I feel required to make sure that a loud speaker system blares out the name of the representative casting every yeah and nay vote as it is cast.

I feel required not to litter during this demonstration!

I feel required to stand there until I starve to death or die from dehydration of the bill passes or they try to delay the vote.

I feel required to do a whole lot of other things too.

Just to point this out for you!

Hitler was not a socialist

The name: 'National Socialism' has nothing to do with Socialism.

Hitler and National Socialism was NOT to the left at all, It was a far-right fascistic movement!


Peace!

i was a volunteer fireman for years in my town and it is a great program- plus an adrenaline rush
but guess what? i VOLUNTEERED!!!! noone forced me into it
the day someone tells me i have to do something is the day i say fu- and don't push me- you won't like what happens.
next thing they are going to tell me i have to do my dishes or maybe someone elses

Originally posted by Chevalerous
Just to point this out for you!

Hitler was not a socialist

The name: 'National Socialism' has nothing to do with Socialism.

Hitler and National Socialism was NOT to the left at all, It was a far-right fascistic movement!


Peace!

Wrong.... He was called National SOCIALIST for a reason.... Every program Hitler implemented was Socialist. But the differences were that Hitler wanted to get rid of minorities, and wanted to expand to claim more territory for the homeland... Hitler was not a facist, he was a National SOCIALIST.....

[edit on 19-3-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by bigfoot1212
i was a volunteer fireman for years in my town and it is a great program- plus an adrenaline rush

but guess what? i VOLUNTEERED!!!! noone forced me into it
the day someone tells me i have to do something is the day i say fu- and don't push me- you won't like what happens.
next thing they are going to tell me i have to do my dishes or maybe someone elses

Exactly... People should be able to decide what to do, and not be told what to do by a Corporation, or a Government, or an individual...

When you start taking away the freedom of the people to choose, you slowly destroy individuality, which is exactly what these people are trying to do, alongside some other devious goals.


[edit on 19-3-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


exactly. if i want to help people so be it. my mentality is i will help- it makes me feel good to help others-but when told i have to do it watch out. it is my right to help or refuse to help as i see fit.
if i see a crime being committed against someone i would be one of the first to jump in and help(and have already) but don't tell me i have to help you do your roof even if i am a roofer. period. if they want to challenge me they will find out the hard way what happens

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Chevalerous
Just to point this out for you!

Hitler was not a socialist

The name: 'National Socialism' has nothing to do with Socialism.

Hitler and National Socialism was NOT to the left at all, It was a far-right fascistic movement!


Peace!

Wrong.... He was called National SOCIALIST for a reason.... Every program Hitler implemented was Socialist. But the differences were that Hitler wanted to get rid of minorities, and wanted to expand to claim more territory for the homeland... Hitler was not a facist, he was a National SOCIALIST.....

[edit on 19-3-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

National Socialism died when the Strasser-falange left the party in 1930 - The Strasser brothers believed in a form of National Socialism which was more like National Anarchism than Fascism, and because of this they where purged from the Nazi Party by Hitler.

Hitler then formed NSDAP after the fascist model and with the extreme right as ideology.

Originally posted by Chevalerous

National Socialism died when the Strasser-falange left the party in 1930 - The Strasser brothers believed in a form of National Socialism which was more like National Anarchism than Fascism, and because of this they where purged from the Nazi Party by Hitler.

Hitler then formed NSDAP after the fascist model and with the extreme right as ideology.

Oh boy. Stop trying to defend Socialism for crying outloud...

At first the party was called the German's Worker's Party, but the name was too close to the Russian Worker's Party, which was also trying to expand across the whole of Europe. Hitler saw, "later on", Communism as a threat to his own version of Socialism.

At the beginning Hitler and Stalin were buddies, because both of their ideologies were Socialist, but their main difference is that while Stalin saw Class struggle as the main premise, Hitler saw race struggle as the main premise, and saw Russian expansion as a threat against German expansion.

Hitler renamed the party to "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" which is the National Socialist German Party.

Every single program implemented by Hitler was Socialist, and similar to this bill which was just passed, which is also similar to the Socialist programs implemented in Communist nations...

Hitler saw Communism, and named it as a threat simply because at the time Communists were also trying to spread their disease around Europe. Krupp and Bechstein, who were Capitalists, thought that Hitler would control his Worker's Party, meanwhile fending the expansion of Communism, but Hitler also hated Capitalism.

Without Hitler, even though he was also an evil dictator, Europe would have been controlled, oppressed, and right now would be flying the Russian flag, and the whole of Europe would have been Communist, which would have caused as much, or more death and destruction than Hitler did..

Hitler named Democracy, and Capitalism as failed ideologies, which is also the theme of Communism.

The youth programs Hitler implemented, as well as every other program implemented by Hitler was Socialist in nature.

Both ideologies are very similar, because both were forms of Socialism, hence National Socialism is an ideology from the left, no-matter how many Socialist historians, teachers, and people are trying to say differently trying to defend Socialism.



[edit on 20-3-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse




"Oh boy. Stop trying to defend Socialism for crying out loud..."


Dude! I'm not defending Socialism! step away from the bong and please deny ignorance!

Hitler was not a socialist! - he sent socialists to death camps, and if you read Mein Kampf, you can clearly see why hitler hated the Socialism of Marx and Communism.

The cousin of my grandfather was a member of The German Social Democratic Party. The Nazi Party banned the SDP in June 1933 and he was sent to a concentration camp in 1933 but got out 1934.

Most prisoners in the early concentration camps were German Communists, Socialists, Social Democrats, Roma (Gypsies), Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals.

In September 1939, thousands more of communists, social-democrats/socialists and former trade union leaders were arrested in Germany. More than 5000 of them were sent to death camps.


Hitler and the nazis said that the word socialism had been hijacked by the Marxians.

Here is a snip of an interview with Hitler about the name National Socialism - Hitler says:

"Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?"

"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.

"Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic.

"We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfilment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one."

www.guardian.co.uk...


Some delusional right-wing propaganda, especially in the US! - are trying to confuse people into believing that National Socialism is the same as ordinary Socialism - which is untrue!


Hitler and National Socialism was a right-wing fascist corporatism movement PERIOD!


" After Mussolini's successful March on Rome in 1922, Hitler gained profound admiration of Mussolini and shortly after Mussolini gained power, the Nazis presented themselves as a German version of Italian Fascism and through their media outlets constantly compared their movement with Italian Fascism and compared Hitler to Mussolini. Nazi member Hermann Esser proclaimed, "In Bavaria too we have Italy's Mussolini. His name is Adolf Hitler."

"During Hitler's rise to power, he was seen by the media and by himself as associated with fascism, and being the "Mussolini of Germany"."

"Nazi official Joseph Goebbels credited Italian Fascism with starting a conflict against liberal democracy which the Nazis supported, saying,

The march on Rome was a signal, a sign of storm for liberal-democracy. It is the first attempt to destroy the world of the liberal-democratic spirit[...] which started in 1789 with the storm on the Bastille and conquered one country after another in violent revolutionary upheavals, to let... the nations go under in Marxism, democracy, anarchy and class warfare..."

en.wikipedia.org...

Where fascism talked of state, Nazism spoke of the Volk and of the Volksgemeinschaft.

Nazism was about the SOCIALIZATION of the INDIVIDUAL and not about the socialization of the state.

Dear Senator Martinez,

The new Administration in Washington and the new Congress seated with it are causing many citizens growing alarm and panic with legislation like H.R. 1388 regarding mandatory/volunteer/required Civil Service along with a nationalized central Identification System to promote it and outsourcing it to be run by contracting it’s administration to a non-government Corporation.

The language used in this bill is something I would have never thought or sought to see in the United States of America.

It is unconscionable that the citizen’s elected Representatives have grown so distant from the average American’s thinking, desires and needs that such legislation could even be crafted, let alone co-sponsored, let alone being brought up for a vote.

I urge you Senator as someone who knows all to well the shortcomings and perils to liberty and prosperity that socialism and communism lead too, to not only vote against this bill but to devote as much of your time and focus to encouraging your Senate colleagues to vote against this bill.

Senator Martinez additionally I humbly request you reconsider your decision not to run for a second term in the United States Senate. I can appreciate your published sentiments that as a Republican in the minority, that your ability to be effective and craft and enact useful legislation is your motivating concern.

Sir, Americans need you now more than ever. Not to craft and enact legislation but to remain vigil and in open opposition to defeat unconstitutional and tyrannical legislation like H.R. 1388.

If a strong and vocal opposition can’t be maintained in the House and the Senate during these difficult and troubling times where the majority seems to favor socialist solutions then our way of life, along with our liberties and values that once made this nation the shining example of people and government throughout the world, will be lost forever.

America needs you Senator Martinez, it needs you to safeguard America and ensure its survival and it needs you to help defeat H.R. 1388, America desperately needs you to support H.R. 833 to create congressional oversight and auditing provisions of the Federal Reserve.

These are the House of Representatives version of these Bills and both warrant the citizen’s representatives representing the citizens and not the corporate interests fighting for and against these bills or the desire on behalf of too many representatives to create more government for the sake of government itself.

Thank you in advance for your consideration in regards to these vital matters.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Constituent & Citizen

Originally posted by Chevalerous

Dude! I'm not defending Socialism! step away from the bong and please deny ignorance!

Hitler was not a socialist! - he sent socialists to death camps, and if you read Mein Kampf, you can clearly see why hitler hated the Socialism of Marx and Communism.
........

Well, thank you for telling us what you do in your free time, but I do no such thing.

Hitler imprisoned many people who were Germans, of what he called the true race, because they also represented something else he hated, and he did not want to exist in Germany.

A Socialist can also be a Capitalist, and Hitler hated Capitalism, but it doesn't mean Hitler was not a Socialist. BTW, Hitler believed once again in Class struggle, which means he wanted to Socialize Germany as a Race, not each German as separate individuals.

As stated by Hitler himself in one of his speeches.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

www.hitler.org...

THE COMMON INTEREST BEFORE SELF-INTEREST -
THAT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE PROGRAM. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INTEREST - THAT IS THE KERNEL OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM.

www.hitler.org...





[edit on 21-3-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Dear Senator Martinez,
......................

That's a great letter/email.

I wish that enough people would have sent something similar to their representatives before the bill was voted on, and passed.

Now we must fight to appeal against this bill being implemented any longer.

I just hope we can stop this in time.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Dear Senator Martinez,
......................

That's a great letter/email.

I wish that enough people would have sent something similar to their representatives before the bill was voted on, and passed.

Now we must fight to appeal against this bill being implemented any longer.

I just hope we can stop this in time.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I wish we could stop this in time too my friend...unfortunately these days too many people have their priorities skewered both in and out of politics.

The biggest problem with big government is too many people become dependant upon government and not their own inititiave. Once you get enough people comfortable with the little handouts that trickle their way, along with the relieving pat on the head for being such a good citizen as the handout suggests, then it's all over.

So many things are the citizens own fault too, that having government to blame them on becomes preferable. China could not have become the home to all of our manufacturing if people simply didn't buy Chinese goods. Instead they will say...well it's this party's fault or that party's fault for allowing the companies to manufacture all of our goods there.

Most people will not take personal responsiblity for the little things they need to do to make and keep America strong and free. Both government and business know this, and feel obliged to take advantage of it too.

We have bred a society of undereducated irresponsible people, and we welcome tens upon tens of millions of nomadic immigrants looking for economic, not political and social freedoms, who come from places where such concepts are as foreign to them as our nation itself is.

The sad truth is most of the people who enjoy above average intelligence, motivation, and political awareness, just gravitate towards making that pay individually for them by joining the ranks of the political and business criminals for personal profit and gain.

People can complain to the government as I do, and to each other as many of us do, but until individuals wake up to the fact that it is their own individual responsibility to not only make the day to day decisions in their personal lives that stop eroding the fabric of traditional constitutional America, not even the politicians could save it for them, even if they were inclined too.

No one can give you freedoms and rights that a person as an individual won't exercise.

At the end of the day it can't get better until people look in the mirror and accept that they are as much if not more to blame than the corrupt politicians and businessmen. If we didn't vote for them, and we didn't buy their products or use their services where would they be?

Fortunately living free or dying trying doesn't take much cooperation!

It just takes a personal responsibility and dedication to that proposition.