Does work really work???

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posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 12:44 PM
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I just found this article today. It's very interesting and is questioning one of the foundations of our western society: Work, aka having a job.

It talks about why this can be compared to slavery in a sense that the employee is "owned" by the employer. The employee must do the employers will or risk being fired (of course). At the end of the text the author offers alternative way. Very long text, but still very informative.

www.cat.org.au...




posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 12:53 PM
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Honestly, i didnt read the whole link but i dont see how you could do things much differently. Things need to get done, people need to do them... They need to be organized in such a fashion that allows it to integrate into ALL the other things happening..

Think about how cars get made or houses get built... it takes people working together from all kinds of businesses and takes a huge amount of co-ordination. I think this is one of the things that allows us to live how we do (like not worrying about food/shelter or manufacturing our own personal goods)



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 12:57 PM
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Yeah, most Americans are slaves to the stuff they buy with the money they make by means of their voluntary, compensated, indentured servitude.

To hell with work! To hell with stuff! TO HELL!!!

DC



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Calculon386
Think about how cars get made or houses get built... it takes people working together from all kinds of businesses and takes a huge amount of co-ordination. I think this is one of the things that allows us to live how we do (like not worrying about food/shelter or manufacturing our own personal goods)


I understand totally. But I also think that there still could be a better solution. Perhaps people will be motivated on their own to do that kind of stuff.

Any other thing other than the common definiton of work seems completely alien to us. That's for sure. It seems unnatural, but is it really unnatural?



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 01:06 PM
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Such Utopian thoughts are nice but hardly realistic. We can all feel so much better about ourselves not being work slaves while we starve and freeze in the dark.

The problem with this view is that it puts forth the thought that we (all of us) somehow deserve something just for being put on the planet. We are promised nothing when we come into this world. If you want something from life, you usually have to work for it. Sometimes the work may be unpleasant. Tough. Want to eat? You better work.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 01:10 PM
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The company i work for certainly doesnt own me in any way. My time is worth money to them... i give up a certain amount of my time each week and they pay me money! With that money I can live in a house, drive a car and eat food! How do you support yourself without working (slaving away) Yeah, it sucks sometimes, but its better than some hippy commune...


Unless we go back to hunter/gatherer society.. work is here to stay! Even then, they were slaves to just surviving... if they didnt work their asses off the whole village would die out. Granted, they werent employed by evil Pepsi Co or anything... they still had work to be done...



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795
I understand totally. But I also think that there still could be a better solution. Perhaps people will be motivated on their own to do that kind of stuff.

Any other thing other than the common definiton of work seems completely alien to us. That's for sure. It seems unnatural, but is it really unnatural?


So, people will be motivated on their own to clean the bathrooms in your office building? Someone is going to wake up one day and say, "Hey, why don't I go drive a garbage truck today? Yeah, that sounds fun." People are going to just choose to take care of your aging grandparents in the nursing home? Sure, someone is just going to come in off the street to change your Grandmother's bedpan, just because it needs to be done.

Think of the dirtiest, nastiest job that you can and then find me the idiot who is just going to take it upon themselves to go and do that on a regular basis without getting something for it.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 01:16 PM
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Work hasnt been working for me. I cant keep true to a schedule, i cut loose when the waves are up. Night jobs would be swell but I cant get around the urine screening. Im still young and if i wanna have some fun I suppose ill have to invent my own way, my own work, my own business if i wanna make it big.

I admire those who have a job they love and those who are a service to society. 9 to 5(or 10 to 6, 12 to 8.....) for a paycheck that gives enough to make it is why we keep on workin.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 01:27 PM
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I would suggest you get into school and educate yourself! Otherwise you could very well end up being a 'slave' to work just to survive.. ask all the homeless and impoverished how well they're doing 'working'...

Too many people think they are entitled to a job and money... you need to work for everything you have and get in life... there are no saftey nets for most of us.

To quote the rapper Cee-Lo...
"Get up, get out and get something... dont spend all your time tryin to get high" "Get up, get out and get something... Cause you and I got to do for you and I"

It really angers me when I bust my hump working and going to school so I can actually make something of myself and other people break into my car and just TAKE stuff that took MY work to get. Oh well... could be worse for sure!



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 01:46 PM
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Ambient.

I don't think you understand what the author is talking about. Something is clearly wrong within the corporate, working enviroment, and she is talking about bettering that. Not stopping work altogether.

Look at these parts:

In our society, then, work is defined as the act by which an employee contracts out her or his labour power as property in the person to an employer for fair monetary compensation. This way of describing work, of understanding it as a fair exchange between two equals, hides the real relationship between employer and employee: that of domination and subordination. For if the truth behind the employment contract were widely known, workers in our society would refuse to work, because they would see that it is impossible for human individuals to truly separate out labour power from themselves. "property in the person" doesn't really exist as something that an individual can simply sell as a separate thing. Machinists cannot just detach from themselves the specific skills needed by an employer; those skills are part of an organic whole that cannot be disengaged from the entire person, similarly, sex appeal is an intrinsic part of exotic dancers, and it is incomprehensible how such a constitutive, intangible characteristic could be severed from the dancers themselves. A dancer has to be totally pre sent in order to dance, just like a machinist must be totally present in order to work; neither can just send their discrete skills to do the work for them. Whether machinist, dancer, teacher, secretary, or pharmacist, it is not only one's skills that are being sold to an employer, it is also one's very being. When employees contract out their labour power as property in the person to employers, what is really happening is that employees are selling their own self determination, their own wills, their own freedom. In short, they are, during their hours of employment, slaves.


What is a slave? A slave is commonly regarded as a person who is the legal property of another and is bound to absolute obedience. The legal lie that is created when we speak of a worker's capacity to sell property in the person without alienating her or his will allows us to maintain the false distinction between a worker and a slave. A worker must work according to the will of andther. A worker must obey the boss, or ultimately lose the job. The control the employer has over the employee at work is absolute, There is in the end no negotiation -- you do it the boss' way or you hit the highway. It is ludicrous to believe that it is possible to separate out and sell "property in the person" while maintaining human integrity. To sell one's labour power on the market is to enter into a relationship of subordination with one's employer -- it is to become a slave to the employer/master. The only major differences between a slave and a worker is that a worker is only a slave at work while a slave is a slave twenty-four hours a day, and slaves know that they are slaves, while most workers do not think of themselves in such terms.

We must increase the amount of free work in our lives by doing what we want, alone and with others, whether high art or mundane maintenance. We need to tear ourselves away from drinking in strict exchange terms: I will do this for you if you will do that for me. Even outside our formal work hours, the philosophy of contract and exchange permeates our ways of interacting with others. This is evident when we do a favour for someone -- more often than not, people feel uncomfortable unless they can return the favour in some way, give tit for tat. We must resist this sense of having to exchange favours. Instead, we need to be and act in ways that affirm our own desires and inclinations. This does not mean being lazy or slothful (although at times we may need to be so), but rather calls for self-discipline. Free work actually demands a great deal of self-discipline, as there is no external force making us work, but only our own internal desire to partake in an activity that motivates our participation.

And destroy it we must. If one's identity is based on work, and work is based on the employment contract, and the employment contract is a falsehood, then our very identities have at their foundation a lie. In addition, the labour market is moving towards an ever-increasing exploitative form of work: it is predicted that by the year 2000, fifty percent of the labour force will be engaged in temp work -- work which is even less selfdirected than permanent full-time jobs. Bob Black has it right when he proclaims that "no one should ever work."(6) Who knows what kinds of creative activity would be unleashed if only we were free to do what we desired? What sorts of social organizations would we fashion if we were not stifled day in and day out by drudgery? For example, what would a woman's day look like if we abolished the wage system and replaced it with free and voluntary activity? Bob Black argues that "by abolishing wage-labor and achieving full unemployment we undermine the sexual division of labor,"(7) which is the linchpin of modern sexism. What would a world look like that encouraged people to be creative and self-directed, that celebrated enjoyment and fulfillment? What would be the consequences of living in a world where, if you met someone new and were asked what you did, you could joyfully reply "this, that and the other thing" instead of "nothing?" Such is the world we deserve.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Calculon386
The company i work for certainly doesnt own me in any way. My time is worth money to them... i give up a certain amount of my time each week and they pay me money! With that money I can live in a house, drive a car and eat food! How do you support yourself without working (slaving away) Yeah, it sucks sometimes, but its better than some hippy commune...


And why are there people who are making money not working for a company or institution, for doing something for themselves, that they really enjoy doing and/or are motivated to do so?



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795


And why are there people who are making money not working for a company or institution, for doing something for themselves, that they really enjoy doing and/or are motivated to do so?


Well.. not everyone can be (or is capable) of being self-employed. As posted above, would you like your garbage man or home builder to be self employed working whenever they wanted... probably not. I work AT a company not for it... Its a small operation.. me and the owners, i run their warehouse for them. I definately dont HATE it but it certainly wouldnt do it for free!


p.s. buy something and keep me employed! ChessNGames.Com



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 02:03 PM
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What about doing side jobs that is cash in one's pocket. The government will not see any of the $$ from it and these jobs make up a significant part of the economy. This is how illegals can continue to live in the USA, there are many looking for daily labor and are able to pay cash by the day.

With all the talk about how our economy is hurting, I see employment oppotunities everywhere, there are jobs to be had by everyone willing to work. Anyone can wash dishes.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by jrod

With all the talk about how our economy is hurting, I see employment oppotunities everywhere, there are jobs to be had by everyone willing to work. Anyone can wash dishes.


Thats one of the problems... theres quite a few people who aren't willing to work... they would just like a handout to keep on getting by. Thats just soo sad.... I dont want to live my whole life just getting by... If nothing is happening for you... MAKE it happen! It takes time to build yourself up... no time to totaly destroy yourself back to zero.. Good luck!



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 02:20 PM
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Well hello...
If you own a business and you have employees wouldnt you tell them what to do? Or if they were your maids? If they didnt listen to what you told them after like 50 times wouldnt you fire them? I mean it's not right but im sure i would fire the person.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 02:42 PM
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Maybe everyone is working too hard to continue the conversation!





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