EU bans use of 'Miss' and 'Mrs'

Reply to: Originally posted by Catesby

I'm not sure that our Congress wouldn't have done better to spend the last year debating semantics and correct forms of address than what they've actually spent their time on

But it wasn't Parliamentary time really anyway. It was some bureaucrat attached to the Secretary General's office who was presumably tasked with this project. If they hadn't done this, they no doubt would be figuring out new and improved ways to use interoffice mail to lose important documents.

[edit on 3/16/2009 by americandingbat]

Excellent!

Now if they can just legalize a non gender word for his/her he/she etc.

Actually there is a book out there in book land that has addressed this. I just don't remember the name of the book.

Since where on the subject does anyone know why there is only one form for a male mister ?

Why was it that society will segregate woman based on marital status but not men. I really don't care what happens with this but would atleast like to see us being equal to men and woman if you keep Miss, Mrs make a male version or better yet create something that males and females can use that isn't gender specific. How about just M. Smith, M Doe that way you cant be basis as a person could be with seeing Ms, Mrs, Mr etc.

reply to post by jatsc


Here, have a read:

Linky-winky

Mr. or Mr is an English honorific used for a man too old to be addressed as Master, under the rank of knighthood, and, supposedly, though not really in practice, above some undefined level of social status (see below). In Britain, though not in the United States, the title also excludes those who have the title Dr. It is an abbreviation (or contraction) of Mister, though it is almost never spelt out in normal usage. The plural of Mr is Messrs (IPA pronunciation: ['mesə(r)z]), an abbreviation for the French messieurs.

Mister is an alteration of Master; the equivalent female titles, Mrs, Miss, and Ms, are variants of Mistress. After the development of the word Mister for adult males, the title Master was retained and used for boys and young men.

reply to post by stumason


Thank you for clearing that up.

How about if we go the other way and have another title for men who are married? Then we all know up front who most likely available.

Instead of MR. for married men we could just change it to Masochist. /jk

reply to post by LoneGunMan


Married men should just be known by the title "Dom", which is an abbreviation of Domesticated...

EDIT: I remember when I was younger, my bank used to send me statements and the free piggy bank every now and then to "Master S. Mason". That was back in the 80's. I do not know if they still do that for boys under 13, but it used to be ettiquette.

[edit on 17/3/09 by stumason]

So what happens if I say "mademoiselle" ? Some "informant" may call the police or what ?
1984...

I hate 'Ms', I hate the sound of it and I've often hated the kind of person that has tended to use it.

However, I kind of agree with it as addressing someone based on their marital status is a bit odd; particularly in a society where 'marriage' isn't what it was and co-habiting, divorce &c. are all more common now than they were at one time. Mrs and Miss just seem unnecessary and perhaps a little pointless.

However, whilst I kind of see the point, this kind of bureaucracy renders itself redundant anyway. Whenever I have to fill in any kind of form that asks for terms of address like Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms and so on, the next question I have to fill is asks whether I'm married anyway. That makes the questionee marriage-status neutral for a couple of seconds at the most!

Whilst the choice of Mrs/Miss/Ms is cumbersome (on top of possible professional qualifications or titles), at least it gives people choice.

I always thought women liked being called "Miss" or "Mrs" in the same way I like being called "Mr".

Did I miss an all-female riot, or something?

This is really odd.

Does that mean saying Mr. and Mrs. Doe would be illegal?

Would they have say Mr. and Jane Doe?

How would that work?

Mr. Ms. Mrs. etc... are honorifics. They enbue respect.

I am most annoyed by this. I have often stated that political correctness is getting us nowhere. It is making governments and companies insane forcing strange restrictions that confuse and annoy. Particularly when forced to use the terms they have made. All it does is artificially change societal norms that have existed for centuries. Instead of eliminating Ms. and Mrs. we should add a Male title that displays martial status. Since Mister (Mr.) is used for adults perhaps that could mean the same as Mrs.

So Mr. and Mrs. Doe would remain intact.

With Mr. and Mrs. both meaning that the individuals are married.

Master which is an honorific used for children usually below the age of 13 could be extended to mean all unmarried men.

This would eliminate the difficulty that female honorifics display marital status and male honorifics do not. Honorifics must not be eliminated. Add honorifics if you must but do not eliminate them.

What will a man say to a women when he does not know her name? When a man is trying to return something a woman dropped will he not be able to shout "Ms., Ms. you dropped this."

Will other titles suffer as well? Will Baroness and Duchess be removed? With only males having the honorific titles Baron or Duke. We forget that women have lost their honorifics and men keep them.

Nearly all words in European languages are defined as masculine or feminine. Will all these words be replaced by law?

Man does not mean just males. Mankind does not mean just men. To say that firemen or policemen just means men is insane. In essence these people are interpreting these words incorrectly. Policemen does not mean police who happen to be males. Those who wish to be politically correct add a definition to a word that it does not hold.

After all no one sane would say that "them" is sexist because it refers to only males because it has "he" in it.

Similarly the word "mentality" should not be altered because someone sees the word "men" in it.

The word "female" obviously does not mean male, but wait, I can see male at the end of that word.

This is just a useless witch hunt.

Watch, next they will say that the word "German" is sexist and must be changed to "Gerperson".

[edit on 17-3-2009 by Studious]

[edit on 17-3-2009 by Studious]

[edit on 17-3-2009 by Studious]

Originally posted by Studious
Mr. Ms. Mrs. etc... are honorifics. They enbue respect.

I am most annoyed by this. I have often stated that political correctness is getting us nowhere. It is making governments and companies insane forcing strange restrictions that confuse and annoy. Particularly when forced to use the terms they have made. All it does is artificially change societal norms that have existed for centuries. Instead of eliminating Ms. and Mrs. we should add a Male title that displays martial status. Since Mister (Mr.) is used for adults perhaps that could mean the same as Mrs.

Yes, it's been used for centuries. However, do you still address children and young males as 'master'? Unless you're a member of some Regency or Victorian society, I very much doubt it. You've had no problem losing one antiquated form of address, so why not something else?

hello, first of all I want to thank you for all the replies.

I noticed that few posters belive the subject not to be important or even BS. I can not agree with that.

and I am not going even to underline the insanity of the our european reps who do involve themself in such a rubbish subjects instead of taking care of the issues important for a normal people.

but I want to declare that this is not a coincidence. we have others strange recomendation coming from parliament of EU - already in some countries the teachers in schools can not use the verbs like "mom" or "dad" but the parent instead, or in Dutch they are going to have the third toilet in schools for the kids with mixed sexual orientation, and so and so and so...

this is some huge change which is ongoing for few years already. and that change is well planned by some forces. and it is evil. the idea is to put evertything upside down and they are already close to it in Europe.

example? the verb "patriot". in Europe you call "patriot" the person when you do not want to call him/her a "xenophobic". we are multicultural, multilangage and multinational societies here. you can not be a patriot any more.

and it is going deeper and deeper. someone will say - we are evolving, building a new international society. but I will ask - is this unification not reminding you something? maybe Orwell 1984?

now, it is missing only the control - and as far as I heard, there are plans top build the supersystem in 2011. it will cover all the info available on you, including - medical issues, crime record, employment record, religion, tax record, bank record, info about your phone numbers, emails. SCARY STUFF. whoever will have a access to that datebase will find out every information about you he needs to blackmail you for example.

we are definetly heading in some more unknown new form of enslavement.

Great thread!

As a male, I was very curious to read the female perspective on this.
I'm thinking the multiple title idea was a way for us dudes to "sort you out", without having to ask personal questions. That it was a male's idea.

But then I thought, it could also be a way for married women to keep us guys from pursuing you. That is, if we had morals!
You know, the title is worn, like a wedding ring. Back off!
So that made me think that females came up with the idea.

Which is it?

I understand the logic of either position. But who's idea was it? hmmm

Originally posted by czacza1

but I want to declare that this is not a coincidence. we have others strange recomendation coming from parliament of EU - already in some countries the teachers in schools can not use the verbs like "mom" or "dad" but the parent instead, or in Dutch they are going to have the third toilet in schools for the kids with mixed sexual orientation, and so and so and so...

...

example? the verb "patriot". in Europe you call "patriot" the person when you do not want to call him/her a "xenophobic". we are multicultural, multilangage and multinational societies here. you can not be a patriot any more.

I know English isn't your first language and whilst it's pretty excellent generally, I'd just like to point out that when you're calling something 'verbs' in the above quotes, they're not actually verbs. 'Mom', 'dad' and 'patriot' are all nouns or, in the case of the first two, maybe even pronouns depending on context. You could possibly argue that 'to mother' and 'to father' are verbs but 'mom' and 'dad' as such aren't.

I don't say this as criticism, merely trying to help someone out who obviously puts in quite a bit of effort with a second language.

Nice to know that they haven't got any real issues to be dealing with and that we're paying them shedloads to think up this nonsense.
Way to go EU.
Tell you what EU , how about a tax on air next time, or we have to pay a levy on how many breaths we take?

I don't mind being called Ms as I'm divorced.

Miss seems a bit youngish , like the old term of young boys as Master instead of Mister. I haven't heard a youth called Master in ages.
So if Master has been dropped, why not the Miss??

Mrs is something I used while I was married but is no longer applicable.
So Ms is what I'm sticking with whether I remarry in the future or not.

But it's a womens right to call herself whatever she wants.
It's not for some goons in government to decide.

I holidayed in the U.K a few years ago and was really ticked off by being called "love" by British men, especially the English.
If they banned that, I would definately approve.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


thanks. my mistake. I was writing pretty fast and obviously english is not my first language. but I try better next time. promise

I don't mind being called Miss, but I have noticed that more often I am being called Ms by people in certain professions. I think it's not just the EU who have had these guidelines. The term 'master' for a young boy is still used, I have seen it in letters addressed to my son from doctors, banks etc. Yeah in an ideal world it would be fine to have a term for females that was the same as Mr just so people don't have to ask and women then feel they have to give away their marital status which they may not want to do. I don't think they'll ever get rid of the Miss, Ms or Mrs though, because I know some women who are far too proud to be a Mrs to give up that title. I don't particularly want to get married but when i've been living with a guy people have addressed me as Mrs because they have assumed we were married, having to explain I'm not a Mrs is sometimes annoying. Hm, yeah surely there are more important things for the EU to debate on!!!!

It goes to ridiculous lengths. Instead of a man-hole cover, we have a person hole cover. Instead of policeman we have police person. Instead of a sales woman, we have sales person. That's insane, that's the kind of thing you would hear on "Late Night with David Letterperson".

Gotta love Carlin...he saw it coming