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Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Originally posted by iwantobelieve
Can we ever approach this subject objectively? How do we know when we are? I think the skeptic's dilemma is just this. To call a skeptic...close minded is counter-productive.
And hypocritical. Some want to take the skeptic to task for having an opinion or not being open-minded when they themselves already have their mind made up. The problem is not that the skeptic is not open-minded enough but rather they do not agree with the person making the accusation.
Originally posted by Europa733
Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Originally posted by iwantobelieve
Can we ever approach this subject objectively? How do we know when we are? I think the skeptic's dilemma is just this. To call a skeptic...close minded is counter-productive.
And hypocritical. Some want to take the skeptic to task for having an opinion or not being open-minded when they themselves already have their mind made up. The problem is not that the skeptic is not open-minded enough but rather they do not agree with the person making the accusation.
You just nailed it. The "truth" is finaly exposed.
Great synthesis.
Cheers,
Europa
Originally posted by platosallegory
Can extra-terrestrials or extra-dimensional beings be the most likely explanation for abduction cases, mass sightings, trace evidence, eyewitness accounts, pictures and video?
If no, please explain why.
Originally posted by Seany
Originally posted by platosallegory
Can extra-terrestrials or extra-dimensional beings be the most likely explanation for abduction cases, mass sightings, trace evidence, eyewitness accounts, pictures and video?
If no, please explain why.
you set yourself up for a real flaming,
you ask about alien abductions
sightings
pics and vids
Anyone will believe those if we can agree on the possibility of alien life
Stick to the basics first
Is it possible for another life force to exist ??
Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Originally posted by iwantobelieve
Can we ever approach this subject objectively? How do we know when we are? I think the skeptic's dilemma is just this. To call a skeptic...close minded is counter-productive.
And hypocritical. Some want to take the skeptic to task for having an opinion or not being open-minded when they themselves already have their mind made up. The problem is not that the skeptic is not open-minded enough but rather they do not agree with the person making the accusation.
Originally posted by platosallegory
Can extra-terrestrials or extra-dimensional beings be the most likely explanation for abduction cases, mass sightings, trace evidence, eyewitness accounts, pictures and video?
Originally posted by Malcram
You attack our supposed motivations rather than the definition of 'Bogus Skepticism' itself. That is ad hominem.
Originally posted by SaviourComplex
I have stated my position on the definition multiple times. You have ignored it as almost every step.
Not according to your signature...
Originally posted by Malcram.
That is ad hominem. Stop making accusations about what I supposedly secretly want and deal with the issue itself. You are attacking my motives, which you don't know.
Originally posted by SaviourComplex
You should look up the definition of "ad hominem," nothing of what I said falls under the criteria of an ad hominem attack, neither abusive, circumstantial or tu quoque.
ad hominem fallacy
Ad hominem is Latin for "to the man." The ad hominem fallacy occurs when one asserts that somebody's claim is wrong because of something about the person making the claim...One of the most frequent types of ad hominem attack is to attack the arguer's alleged motives.."
ad hom·i·nem (hm-nm, -nm)
adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives. - TheFreeDictionary.com
Stating I am against such labels because they promote lazy-thinking, used as a crutch to dismiss arguments, is not an ad hominem.
Originally posted by Malcram
I assure you, if I think someone using "bogus skepticism" I will show very keen interest in their arguments, in order to demonstrate that they are employing bogus skepticism.
Originally posted by SaviourComplex
And here you prove my point. Instead of focusing on the the substance of their argument, you will focus on showing how they are a "bogus skeptic."
Originally posted by Nohup
Originally posted by platosallegory
Can extra-terrestrials or extra-dimensional beings be the most likely explanation for abduction cases, mass sightings, trace evidence, eyewitness accounts, pictures and video?
No. Because they have not been shown to exist, and therefore are not a very likely explanation for anything. There is no likely explanation for authentic instances of the things you mention. They are unknown.
Originally posted by platosallegory
Can extra-terrestrial or extra-dimensional beings be the most likely explanation for mass sightings, abduction cases, trace evidence, pictures, video and more?
If no, please explain why?
Originally posted by platosallegory
I asked the skeptics 3 times now and I will try a four time.
Originally posted by platosallegory
This proves my point. Some skeptics do not consider extra-terrestrials or extra-dimensial beings a likely explanation for these things.
So of course most skeptics start with a priori about the existence of extra-terrestrial and extra-dimensional beings and there not seeking the truth.
Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Originally posted by Malcram
This might help define things a little more clearly...
Not clear at all. Again, these are so loose and vague they can be applied to any person at any given moment at any given argument. Some of them are particularly insidious, designed to attack and dismiss a skeptic for even having a question or change the subject if a question is asked.
These same criticisms could just as easily be applied to believers.
Sign. Again, more duplicity and liberal use of fallacy. I didn't say that was ad hominem However, attacking our motive for raising the issue of Bogus Skepticism, which you did, is ad hominem.
You're on ignore. This is pointless and ridiculous. If you wish to use labels so you can dismiss arguments instead of worrying about the merits of the argument itself, go right ahead.
Originally posted by nablator
Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
I did not fail to answer his question though. I'm sorry if my answer disappointed you, but at least it was an intellectually honest answer.
I agree with everything you said. I'm good at agreeing with people. I agree about good estimations made by respected scientists. They know what they're talking about, and I don't have a problem with accepting their estimates as the best possible today. However, do not underestimate the ability of scientists to speculate and state their informed opinion. Exobiologists are trying to guess what alien life forms may be like. It's all guesswork. Quality guesswork, but often wild guesswork, because data is not available, and making judgments for the whole universe from only one sample, Earth, is impossible. Planetary systems' science is in its infancy too. New exoplanets are discovered every year where they shouldn't be according to the theories of the previous year.
Originally posted by nablator
Tell that to Stephen Hawking and Frank Drake I would respectfully disagree with you here, and say that formula like the Drake equations are not wild guesses at all, but merely tools for prediction based upon observed evidence. There's a big field between those goalposts. Making a Scientific Guess is not the same as making a wild guess, or expressing an opinion as fact.
I don't get your point. The formula is no the problem, estimating the values of the probabilities in it is the problem. Drake's equation does not help making a good estimate. Not even a good upper or lower bound. It's completely useless. By multiplying unknown probabilities you get an unknown value.
Originally posted by nablator
Also, I'm not trying to convince him of anything. I'm trying to address his points with rational critical thinking, applying the Scientific Method.
You're not critical enough. I'm worried about you becoming religious about some subjects like Drake's equation and the "Battle of LA".
Originally posted by nablator
Believing NASA, or any scientist out of authority is not critical thinking.
Originally posted by nablator
Agreeing with estimates of the probabilities in Drake's equation is not the same as accepting the result of the multiplication as scientific truth.
Originally posted by nablator
It's an estimate, a good one maybe, maybe not, but nothing more. Even if we knew a lower bound for certain (we don't), it would not prove the existence of ET life in our Galaxy. A probability is not a certainty.
Originally posted by nablator
And an estimated probability with unknown error margin is so uncertain that I don't understand why you're giving any credit to such a weak argument, three steps away from anything solid. Drake's equation has no value other than showing the extent of our ignorance.
Originally posted by nablator
Nice to see you again old friend! Any new findings on the STS footage?
I don't want to discuss it every again! The way NASA videos are promoted in every thread (even this one) as proof of something is painful to watch. I'm not open minded at all about stupid disks floating in the camera's view.
Originally posted by platosallegory
You will not even allow for the possibility that extra-terrestrial or extra-dimensional beings can be the most likely explanation for these things.
Originally posted by platosallegory
Can extra-terrestrial or extra-dimensional beings be the most likely explanation for mass sightings, abduction cases, trace evidence, pictures, video and more?