Why can't we just be like Gandhi??

For those who are still running around on a routine blind to what is going on I say wake up...!!! Wake up to the fact you are a slave... You've heard the saying, "The things you own end up owning you"... That's the point here... You only go to work to buy stuff you don't need... Everything you really need can be provided by yourself and your family without a problem... You can build a home, you can grow and raise your food, you can with current tech. create your own electricity and heat etc... Everything you go to work for to pay for that is essential can be covered or setup by you to provide for your own needs...

Gandhi had it right... There is no reason for violence... On the other hand there is no reason we need to cooperate with our current government and the ways of our corrupt system... We are aloud the right, currently, to stand up for our rights our humaity... The system which molds you, depresses you, brain washes you, deceives you and rapes you of your god given right to be free and self sufficient... Don't be prey! Have some self worth, if a job will not pay you for your effort then you should demand more or not work at all... It should be us as the people that run the show how our constitution had originally been written...

Can you not see it... They've, used us, you, to build up all these huge square buildings with a bunch of stuff including necessities and have programmed you to want these things and believe this is the only way to get these things... They've given you the way to make some money, but rape the country by allowing monopolies which seriously take advantage of people by removing the opposition forcing people into mass corporate markets working for minimal wages, slave wages... Take Wall Mart... For example.. See movie Wall Mart The High Cost Of Low Price www.walmartmovie.com...

Not only this but our food industry allows food that can kill you or make you sick, food that is addictive, see the movie "Super Size Me"... This is all fast food and most restaurant foods are not good for you... Also look at all the stuff in our grocery store boxed foods and can foods... Tons of additives that are not in fresh foods, that are not good for you... Not in foods you would raise yourself.. It's not like we're stupid, we're human, we have abilities to provide for ourselves... We have the will to survive... We can do this and we can do this without violence or without threats... Just need to stand up for our rights as human beings and be creative... Use your minds and stop walking around like robots... Read about signs, about advertising and how they push and motivate you to buy... Generally something you really don't need...

oh and before i forget, we've had electric vehicle tech for a long time... over 100 years... Why did we decide to go with gas powered which is something that produces tons of toxic chemicals that would and is now destroying our planet and causing disease when we could have produced electric just as easy? The electric technology would be more advanced by now just like our gas vehicles, the only excuse i can think of is it was done on purpose, all part of the master plan.. Which in it's self is another conversation...

I still have yet to see anything change, anything... I watched a movie made in 07 and the scientist in that film said if we stopped producing emissions now, as in zero none, it would still increase and then take several years to begin to re stabilize... We haven't changed anything, everyone i know still hops in the car and drives to work, gas prices even dropped, what the heck is up with that? And not to mention how bunk our medical industry is... Granted some medical science is needed and acceptable, but in general it's getting out of control... We still have yet to cure some diseases that I've heard have had cures for a long time or have several cures that keep getting covered up... Wake up, hospitals are there to eliminate pain, to create new illness and treat illness, not cure it... When you go to the hospital, do you think the doctor cares for you personally? No, they do not, you are statistic, a case that goes on the board like an episode of house... Cept they pretend like they care... I'm serious Americans! we are being duped... big time... time to wake up, become self sufficient and do what we all can do to provide for ourselves and maybe even someone else in need...

Also I'm really tired of the general "flip you off" attitude we seem to have running around the USA... We really need to straighten up and consider humanity... Doesn't anyone consider what it might be like to be in someone elses position? Before you judge put yourself in the shoes of another and see if you would want to be judged being in that position... The answer is no, there is no reason for it and it's childish behavior, totally unacceptable... Yet why do we keep doing this... ? Is it because we are told to do this? If your general says, jump out of the plane without your shoot, would you? And you wonder why those poor people in Iraq are blowing themselves up, Iran the terrorists etc... If you were in Iran, born there and raised and a missile blew up your mom, would you be upset? Of course, would you be able to turn your cheek to something like that.. .Hopefully and that's how it should be, but you can not allow an evil force to run the world either... Just like you'd kill a lion that kept killing members of say, your tribe... I'd say the people of Irag and the general region have turned their cheek one too many times.... I don't blame them for the actions they take although I do not agree with them either... I do not agree with anything we as Americans have done to them... Like I've heard so many times.. It doesn't seem real to Americans... All we can do is watch news and imagine what it's like... It's nothing like the real thing... Yet we do these things, we do evil and expect none in return.. This is not sane thinking, this is robot programmed thinking... This is press a button and the gun fires type actions... Fact is we should have never gone there just like we should have never attacked ourselves on 911... Why we allow these types of things to continue is beyond me... Why we still think like we do is beyond me.

I heard that humans are the only animals, besides the elephant, which we just found out, that seeks revenge... Funny the elephants remember when we killed their parents and are now going out and killing humans... So it makes total sense why we would have war forever, because as long as one side hits the other the other will want to seek revenge, that is human nature and that is the way it has always been for us as humans... Back in the day, if a lion attacked a human and killed it, the human group would go out and kill the lion, we still do this...

When in retrospect we should accept the fact that maybe we made a mistake, that maybe we need to respect the animals territory and move away... Not seek revenge... Not start a war on the animal... It's very easy to figure out aspects of the animal, to learn to live with the animal, so why can't we, why can't we live with each other in this way... ? Why can we not be in peace with each other, peace with ourselves? Why can we choose to not attack to not seek revenge, to turn away and to stop and not provoke, is it really that hard?

At any rate, Gandhi had a great theory about human emotion, i can't remember exactly how he said it, but more or less he said they can curse me, break my bones, hurt me or even kill me, but eventually their guilt will get the best of them and they will be forced to make the right choice and retract as they should have in the beginning... This again is how i took it and not exactly how he said it, but I definitely see his philosophy and how it would work for all of human kind, not just for Indians alone, which it did...

There's a time and place for satyagraha and non-violence. One has to gauge the timings precisely right, otherwise they will be ineffectual at best and damaging at worst.

Gandhi's philosophy did an immense amount of harm to India post-partition. His advocacy of non-collectivist socialism kept the country in a state of poverty for decades until India switched to Capitalism in the 1990s.

Gandhi's effect on the independence struggle is also debateable. Did the British Empire care about a half naked man who kept going on hunger strike as to free India? Or were they forced into freeing India by Subhas Chandra Bose and his Azad Hind army of about 100,000 men standing in Burma, waiting to march on Delhi.

One thing is for certain- Gandhi's advocacy of self reliance (the homegrown movement), where he encouraged people to spin their own cotton and create their own clothes etc was very effective at reducing the reliance of everyday people upon the machinations of the British Raj.

In short- if you have a problem with the way the world is run at the moment, then do what you have to do in order to rid yourself of reliance upon that system. Personally I have no great gripes with the system, and no qualms about living within it to an extent.

I would have to agree with you and the current standings, but if the people do not initiate their rights they will be gone in which case the time to act will be up... you're a participating slave now, next round you'll be a forced slave...

I totally agree man.

Totally agree.

Peace

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam


I don't see myself as enslaved. If anything, a collectivist uprising would probably erode my freedoms even further.

That said, if things deteriorate beyond a certain point (where I no longer feel free), I will start acting.

Jefferson's views were the best on this issue- better than Gandhi even. He envisaged a version of freedom where self reliance and cooperation were entirely voluntary.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Really it's the same thing... I'm not sure why you argue, I'm attempting to wake you up to the fact that you are indeed a slave whether you believe it or not... The whole setup is so shifty you don't even know you are... Or maybe you are not blue collar, maybe you are wealthy and we work for you... Either way you were once there I could assume...

The fact is when you feel it's time to act it will be too late, when in fact it's time now to act... You can choose to be helpful to others and you can also choose not to pay your taxes or work for "things" you don't need... you might say, I need food, because that is the way they want you to think... You are reliant on all the royalties of this what some might consider an easy living... We pride our selves on our accomplishments when really everything would be gone, if say, the power went out... I mean what would I do without the internet... I'd go nuts trying to figure out what you might have said next...

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam


You skirted on the issue I think.

I don't want to bring the system down, I want to utilize it. And I don't want others to bring the system down, I want them to work within it to reach a level that befits them.

The freedom card already exists if you want it enough. Not many do... and when they fail within the system, they claim that its the system that is broken rather than their approach to the system.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by ElectricUncleSam

 

You skirted on the issue I think.

I don't want to bring the system down, I want to utilize it. And I don't want others to bring the system down, I want them to work within it to reach a level that befits them.

The freedom card already exists if you want it enough. Not many do... and when they fail within the system, they claim that its the system that is broken rather than their approach to the system.

No I did not skirt... I just don't see how you can do your daily routine and say or type rather, you are not a slave, you are free... That you can attain freedom... Not even our constitution says anything about "attaining" freedom... We are always in pursuance of it... The pursuit of freedom would be to maintain our freedom and to do that the current desecration of our rights needs to stop and if they do not listen we need to stop serving them... We need to utilize our constitutional right to take back what is rightfully ours, our freedom, our happiness... But this may not happen because it's people, you included, who are so strung out on this false belief system and false freedom that you can't break free... You're so worried that you might not have any money to pay for whatever...

Or i have you totally wrong, you are rich and therefore need to defend your rights as a rich guy... Maybe you earned it, that's great, I congratulate your achievements... I'm sure you want to sit back and relax while someone delivers your pizza and maybe your groceries right...? Maybe take the wife out to dinner, get the car washed first, etc etc... If that is the type of freedom you are considering then it's sorry..

It's not ok to do because others do... Like the system wants to teach you, get rich like this rich guy and you could be free too... and the system is not just money... it all goes deeper than that I'm sure you're aware... Ultimately you're defending a system that will fail or will destroy itself in the process and in the end we all have nothing, or we can stop the bs and learn the self sufficient way of life, which we are slowly moving towards, but still for a price...

If it's one thing I've found, when the time comes, humans are always human about things... When they are not, be like Gandhi, their own wrong doing will force them to judge themselves..

You know I'm sorry, but I believe each and every person is a part of God, is god and should be respected as that... I think the person serving your food should be treated with the same respect as the person receiving the food... Maybe this means paying them the same wages... But we all know that would never work... I don't have the solution I just know how things need to be in order for us to survive... How we can accomplish this feet will take many minds many people... In order to rebuild trust we must first give it... Kinda funny how today nobody can trust anyone else? Maybe some more programming? I think so...

Originally posted by ElectricUncleSam
You know I'm sorry, but I believe each and every person is a part of God, is god and should be respected as that... I think the person serving your food should be treated with the same respect as the person receiving the food... Maybe this means paying them the same wages... But we all know that would never work... I don't have the solution I just know how things need to be in order for us to survive... How we can accomplish this feet will take many minds many people... In order to rebuild trust we must first give it... Kinda funny how today nobody can trust anyone else? Maybe some more programming? I think so...

YES

i agree

Originally posted by 44soulslayer

Gandhi's effect on the independence struggle is also debateable. Did the British Empire care about a half naked man who kept going on hunger strike as to free India? Or were they forced into freeing India by Subhas Chandra Bose and his Azad Hind army of about 100,000 men standing in Burma, waiting to march on Delhi.

No no no no no! You're not supposed to put things into their historical context!

Gandhi was the reason! He was the only reason! Bose never existed! There is no Burma!

etc.

It's funny, when you look closely at Indian and British politics and society and for those 25 years or so, you start to see that there were a lot of reasons for the British to Quit India, and Gandi is not near the top of the list. Had he operated in a vacuum, ie. without the context of 100,000 men ready to march on Delhi, it's very likely he would have been ignored. It's also likely that the Empire would have dissolved regardless.

Yet we're all told that his way is best. Don't bother with armed revolution. Peaceful, non-violent protest is the way to go. Don't raise a finger. Sit down and let the police take you, quietly.

Just why DO the people in power hold Gandhi up as the role model for revolutionaries and protesters and civil disobedience in general, as they have for the past four generations? Couldn't be that they have something to gain, could it?

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Jefferson's views were the best on this issue- better than Gandhi even. He envisaged a version of freedom where self reliance and cooperation were entirely voluntary.

So what if I chose not to play by the rules of the system? What if I wanted to just go into the wilderness and build my own house and farm/hunt my own food and be self dependent, living off the land, being truly free?

The thing is, I need money to "buy" good land -- need lots of money. So now I'm forced to work my ass off for half my life before I can call the land my own. Then they tell me what I'm allowed to grow on my own land. Building codes I must abide by? Paper work, licenses, permits, blah blah blah, etc etc etc.

That's just one small example in which we're restricted/limited, but obviously there are many more.

We are certainly NOT free.

[edit on 16/3/09 by Navieko]

Originally posted by ElectricUncleSam
"The things you own end up owning you"

I found that quote particularly interesting.
I think it has a deeper meaning than perceived.

Nowadays they have ISBN numbers on everything.
Soon (and in some cases, already) they'll have tags on things to track where the items are. So if you steal something the cops can track you down through the tiny GPS in the package. They'll be watching your every move.