NASA STS - 80 Undeniable Proof That They Know More

Originally posted by franspeakfree
Ok, I believe they are intelligently controlled crafts. The fact that they form a perfect cirlcle and flash intermittantly should at least provide some substantial proof to what I am saying.

At what point in the video do these objects form a "perfect circle?" What other evidence do you have these are alien craft? "Flashing intermittantly" is hardly evidence, as there are a great many things that flash or can appear to flash. How does flashing make these alien?

Originally posted by franspeakfree
My claim as you put it, is that NASA know about this presence and that they intentionally keep it from the public.

If that was the case, you would not see this video. I know you have an explanation for that, but it was nothing but speculation. You are trying to have it both ways.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
show us something that backs up your argument ie videos of formations of other ice crystals,meteors or debris.

They do, in every thread on these subjects. But it is dismissed out of hand.

Originally posted by franspeakfree



Ok, I believe they are intelligently controlled crafts (piloted by beings that are not from this earth, that nasa know and work with) The fact that they form a perfect cirlcle and flash intermittantly should at least provide some substantial proof to what I am saying.

You claim that this is substantial proof Fran.
You claim that nasa is covertly operating with ET, how do explain NASA allowing footage of this. You derive all this from small dots on a black and white video from 1996, ignoring NASA's explanation in favour of your own, based on what, your vast experience as a you tube viewer over NASA vast experience with space fight?
How do you know these UFO's are not piloted by humans. You can't discount that either.

My claim as you put it, is that NASA know about this presence and that they intentionally keep it from the public. For reasons unknown.

Are you not the Public Fran, here you are, knowing what NASA is doing! By viewing NASA footage on the WEB. Doesn't look like a cover up does it? In fact you can view massive amounts of footage relating to NASA missions.

My question to the 'debunkers' instead of saying the same old things over and over, if you REALLY think its debris or ice crystals, show us something that backs up your argument ie videos of formations of other ice crystals,meteors or debris.

I can show you plenty of STS missions, its just that you or others have posted them as undeniable proof of UFO's piloted by aliens. My question to Believers is, is this really all you have. Reflecting space junk, please, get something NEW. For christs sake the video is from 1996. Please don't pull out a STS 48 video. Its the same effect.

Look at the previous links of threads that phage posted in his to me to say this had been discussed before look at the little attention it gets

Why is this???????

Because it is lame at best and has been dealt with before.
These aren't the droids you are looking for!
Move along, move along.

Come on Fran, I admire your enthusiasm, but you can't seriously tell me you get all of what you believe from intermittent flashing dots on a 12 year old video. Please.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
it is people like Franspeakfree or UnconventionalRyan, those who declare it is undeniable and impossible to debunk.

To reply to your question, SaviorComplex I have seen with my own eyes a 'flying saucer; metallic shiny and hovering over a field completely silent I have seen this in broad daylight. Therefore I know in my soul that these UFOS exist because of this when someone comes on here and says that everything can be explained by science and the limited knowledge we have I tend to disagree.

There has been alot of talk about the STS 114 and the STS 63 but they don't IMO these videos don't show half of what we see here.

This video cannot be discarded by saying that what we see making the formation and flashing are ice crystals from a water dump or space debris coming together randomly.

The fundamental basics of what we have in this video is a series of UFO'S (Unidentified Flying Objects) coming together and forming a perfect circle and then starting to flash in unison in front of the STS 80 shuttle

Therefore, the reason I say "can you debunk this" is not to start bitching and to cause an argument for the fun of it. Far from it. I want people to realise (the same people that say that UFO'S doesn't exist) is that there is more to life than what we know and there are people on this planet that know and will not share that information.

Now if you can prove me wrong by posting evidence to say that ice crystals can form neat shapes and shimmer light from the sun causing the objects to flash then I will take that on board.







[edit on 17-3-2009 by franspeakfree]

Good morning ladies and gentlemen,
It fascinates me how as humans we can all see and read the same information and come up with such vastly different conclusions. Having been raised in a family where both parents and several relatives, and my fathers hunting buddies saw these things I am a believer.

I was thinking this morning about all of this and it reminded me of the difference in the way generations perceive things. We have all grown up with Hollywood and all the various space and alien movies so this is a cultural norm. The issue now is, fantasy or fact!

Moses and his people (according to the Bible) were left to wander for 40 years so the older generation with the stain and ways of Egypt to pass away before they could inherit the Promised Land. Each generation has their own belief systems and values that largely remain unchanged until the next generation has taken the lead. The generation of the "War of the World" panic is just about gone.

I almost expect that soon these debates will be a thing of the past...you know like the great debate about the earth being flat or the universe revolving around the earth. This generation is more than ready to accept that we are not alone and are being visited and may well be in regular contact. time will tell

Originally posted by atlasastro
You claim that nasa is covertly operating with ET, how do explain NASA allowing footage of this.

Leakage due to the time scale of disclosure

You derive all this from small dots on a black and white video from 1996, ignoring NASA's explanation in favour of your own

Thats not strictly true I have been learning quite a bit from DOF ,JIMBO and ARMAP on the STS114 thread. However, when NASA employees start to speak out about UFOS and ET you have to ask yourself maybe NASA does knows something after all.

Small black and white dots that form a shape and flash in front of the STS 80 shuttle that just so happens to pan out at 0.37 to get a wider angle of the object flashing on the left? Nothing to see here......

How do you know these UFO's are not piloted by humans. You can't discount that either.

Absolutely, I can't, but that opens up another can of worms. If they are humans then why are they continuing secret black projects with extremely advanced technology on their own and not sharing with the rest of us mere pawns?

Are you not the Public Fran, here you are, knowing what NASA is doing! By viewing NASA footage on the WEB. Doesn't look like a cover up does it? In fact you can view massive amounts of footage relating to NASA missions.

This isn't just me standing up and saying NASA can't be trusted because of this particular video. I may not know every component on a shuttle but I have researched this subject for quite some time now and the more you look into it the UFO phenomena the deeper it goes and the more you can see that a cover up of 'something' has occured for over 60 years.

Because it is lame at best and has been dealt with before.
These aren't the droids you are looking for!
Move along, move along.

No, there is plentyl to see here so I and others will stick around, hopefully.

There seems to be a common them here at ATS when something cannot be proven the OP will get a bashing until she/he concedes, I have witnessed RFBURNS having to handle alot of personal bashing recently

Many people aree dodging the fact that what we see here cannot be explained. Therefore, all the widely known 'debunkers', (i'm sorry but if I use this word people will know who I am talking about) come out and shoot me down.

Not that I am calling you a debunker personally, but you have to admit you are skirting around the issue here and that is these so called black and white dots seem to be quite interesting to NASA.





[edit on 17-3-2009 by franspeakfree]

[edit on 17-3-2009 by franspeakfree]

[edit on 17-3-2009 by franspeakfree]

Originally posted by franspeakfree
To reply to your question, SaviorComplex I have seen with my own eyes a 'flying saucer...

That is not the question I asked. I could care less about your own personal experience. I asked about this video. What proof do you have these are intelligent and independent craft?

Originally posted by franspeakfree
This video cannot be discarded by saying that what we see making the formation and flashing are ice crystals from a water dump or space debris coming together randomly.

You are dismissing any explanation out-of-hand before any explanation is offered and without any argument as to why they should be dismissed. You make a simple declarative statement and that-is-that.

Tell us why they cannot be explained this way? How does this video represent intelligent craft?

Originally posted by franspeakfree
The fundamental basics of what we have in this video is a series of UFO'S (Unidentified Flying Objects) coming together and forming a perfect circle and then starting to flash in unison in front of the STS 80 shuttle

Again, you have presented no argument as to why these are intelligent craft. Your argument is that they are explained by virtue of being unexplained.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
Now if you can prove me wrong by posting evidence...

That is not how science works. You cannot make a declarative statement, without any evidence or argument, then say unless someone can prove you wrong then you are right. Instead, the onus is on you to prove your claim. Please, provide us with a cogent argument.

The inability to invalidate a hypothesis is not the same as proving it.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


Ok I understand and appreciate what your saying, but like others here you are skirting around the issue with your fancy words and that is the STS 80 video.

These are my opinions to which I am entitled to as are you. I may not be able to explain in great detail using all fancy words but then again I am not a writer. But attacking me is hardly a solid case for the scientific opposition.

That is not how science works. You cannot make a declarative statement, without any evidence or argument, then say unless someone can prove you wrong then you are right. Instead, the onus is on you to prove your claim. Please, provide us with a cogent argument.

I am not a scientist, I don't belive that everything can be explained by science. Unfortunately our science cannot be used in this situation and any others that involve ET. Reason being we can only go as far as our rules and education will take us. In this instance (ET) our science cannot be used as it is a completely new untried system.

The inability to invalidate a hypothesis is not the same as proving it.

Mirror Mirror - looking right back at you



Show me scientifically why I am wrong to think these lights are E.T





[edit on 17-3-2009 by franspeakfree]

[edit on 17-3-2009 by franspeakfree]

Originally posted by atlasastro
Because it is lame at best and has been dealt with before.
These aren't the droids you are looking for!
Move along, move along.

The mere fact that this is the repetitive answer from Never A Straight Answer is the very reason why the inquery continues.

The "move along, move along..nothing to see...move along" quote is the driving force to continue to question what is in these videos. It is like a dare, a dare to compare and a challenge to question.

Without questions, there can be no answers. Without answers, there will be more questions.

Originally posted by atlasastro
but you can't seriously tell me you get all of what you believe from intermittent flashing dots on a 12 year old video. Please.

Dispite the fact these are 12 year old and older videos, it obviously means that the answers have not been found yet.

People continue to question Kennedy's assasination, question Napoleon's campaigns, question the Giza Pyramids and their construction. People question what really happend on 9/11. Is it any different for 12 year old STS videos?

No it is no different. The questions will continue to be asked as long there is a notion in people to continue to ask.

Without questions, there can be no answers. Without answers, there can be no truth.


Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by franspeakfree
But attacking me is hardly a solid case for the scientific opposition.

Asking you questions, pointing out the fallacies of your argument, and demanding evidence to back up your claim is not attacking you.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
Show me scientifically why I am wrong to think these lights are E.T

You have not shown scientifically that these are alien craft. Show us how they are alien craft; all you have done is make a declarative statement, they are alien and cannot be debunked, but have provided nothing to support that argument, outside of them being alien by virtue of being mysterious. Whether or not we can invalidate your claim is meaningless; ffailing to invalidate a claim is not the same as proving it. The onus is on you to prove your claim.

Prove it. Prove these are alien craft. Provide evidence, produce a cogent argument.


[edit on 17-3-2009 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Asking you questions, pointing out the fallacies of your argument, and demanding evidence to back up your claim is not attacking you.

Sure but it works both ways here except I am not demanding for evidence I am asking you for it.

You have not shown scientifically that these are alien craft. Show us how they are alien craft; all you have done is make a declarative statement, they are alien and cannot be debunked, but have provided nothing to support that argument, outside of them being alien by virtue of being mysterious. Whether or not we can invalidate your claim is meaningless; ffailing to invalidate a claim is not the same as proving it. The onus is on you to prove your claim.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see where this is going.

Ok show me something scientific, that is terrestrial (earthly) that can make the same formation, show me meteors that fall in to a nice pattern in front of another STS shuttle show me something to validate what you are arguing about instead of asking me the same questions.

Prove it. Prove these are alien craft. Provide evidence, produce a cogent argument.

Mirror Mirror - As said before this is my opinion, which I must add, many adopt.

The question I ask now is why is it so important for you for me to prove that this is ET? how many threads do we debate in on this site about E.,T?

I can see what you are doing and thats trying to derail the thread to stop it ending up like the STS 114 one that according to my u2us has built up quite alot of interest on this site.

Why is it so important to you? is it because that this event in the video cannot be explained by the conventional means of ice crystals, space debris e.t.c or is it because its one of the videos that has been doing the rounds for many years and still cannot be proven.

Or is it because you just want to heat up the thread a little.

*Before you start saying that I have conceded/couldn't take the bashing because I am not answering. I have loads to do today, therefore I may not be able to reply straight away.


[edit on 17-3-2009 by franspeakfree]

Originally posted by franspeakfree
Mirror Mirror - As said before this is my opinion, which I must add, many adopt.

I would recommend you go back and carefully reread my posts in this thread. I have not made a claim. All I have done is ask questions and asked for others to back up their claims. Therefore, I have nothing to back up.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
The question I ask now is why is it so important for you for me to prove that this is ET?

Because you have made the claim. You said these are extraterrestrials but seem confused about where the burden of proof lies and how one proves their claim.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
However, I can see what you are doing and thats trying to derail the thread to stop it ending up like the STS 114 one that according to my u2us has built up quite alot of interest on this site.

Why is that?

Asking for evidence, pointing out fallacies in arguments, and discussing burden of proof is not derailing. I am on topic. The only thing derailing is your question and accusation.

Discuss the topic, not me.

I have not ever known a natural phenomenon to light up and form lovely patterns like what we see in the video!

It seems that the two sides will not ever agree so what is the point of showing up in these threads if you think this is crap???? When I see things on here that I don't agree with or think are just a bit too far out, I pass on the thread.

Fran, I think this is a great thread and am in complete agreement with you.

Originally posted by redhead57
I have not ever known a natural phenomenon to light up and form lovely patterns like what we see in the video!

That is the key right there...forming patterns, and patterns of specific shapes or arrangements.

I have never seen ice particles, debris, junk, or waste dump mist form specific shapes and patterns. Only random, hap-hazard and irregular patterns.

Originally posted by redhead57
It seems that the two sides will not ever agree so what is the point of showing up in these threads if you think this is crap????

This is one question that has NEVER been answered by the other side. If it is all simple stuff, and the believers are just a bunch of crazies not worth wasting any time on..then why all the attention to them and their beliefs?

I for one would LOVE to hear their answer to the question...why bother? Why spend so much time trying to convince someone to change thier point of view when that point of view is considered to be nothing at all?

Curious...isnt it.


Cheers!!!!

[edit on 17-3-2009 by RFBurns]

Originally posted by UnconventionalRyan1990
Yeah, the debunkers usually tend to stay away from this one lol. "Oh no, it's gonna be hard to try and prove these are ice particles. Maybe if we ignore it, it'll go away by itself." Haha.

I'm seeing a lot of smugness in this thread from closed minded believers saying ''duhhh come on debunkers, debunk it'' but I'd like someone to prove that these blurry lights are alien. Come on closed minded believers, prove the blurry lights or whatever they are are alien. The video is interesting but when you have closed minded believers stating it HAS to be alien then I have to question those people's objectivity. There should be a rule about people not being allowed to title a thread with the words 'undeniable proof' unless there is some, unless it states in the title ''imo''.

Just because blurry lights cannot be identified it does not automatically mean they are alien.

I posted a thread a short while back and didn't get one single reply, the thread posed a ''possible'' explanation for a lot of sightings but it seems a lot of people want to believe so much that they will not consider any other explanation other than it has to be alien. Here's the link.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I would like to see more open mindedness from closed minded believers and sceptics alike, there should be a balance. When it comes down to it both parties want the same thing, real proof, REAL proof.

Originally posted by Hawkwind.

Originally posted by UnconventionalRyan1990
Yeah, the debunkers usually tend to stay away from this one lol. "Oh no, it's gonna be hard to try and prove these are ice particles. Maybe if we ignore it, it'll go away by itself." Haha.

I'm seeing a lot of smugness in this thread from closed minded believers saying ''duhhh come on debunkers, debunk it'' but I'd like someone to prove that these blurry lights are alien. Come on closed minded believers, prove the blurry lights or whatever they are are alien. The video is interesting but when you have closed minded believers stating it HAS to be alien then I have to question those people's objectivity. There should be a rule about people not being allowed to title a thread with the words 'undeniable proof' unless there is some, unless it states in the title ''imo''.

Just because blurry lights cannot be identified it does not automatically mean they are alien.

I posted a thread a short while back and didn't get one single reply, the thread posed a ''possible'' explanation for a lot of sightings but it seems a lot of people want to believe so much that they will not consider any other explanation other than it has to be alien. Here's the link.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I would like to see more open mindedness from closed minded believers and sceptics alike, there should be a balance. When it comes down to it both parties want the same thing, real proof, REAL proof.

How many times does someone posted a thread only for it to be shot down in flames before it gets up and running. I don't believe its a smugness. I believe its anticipation to see what the flamers say.

Take this video for example. Savior demanded why I believe that these objects are UFOS ET in origin.

Pure and simply I believe these are alien in origin because there is nothing that I have seen that can say otherwise. The limit of education and knowledge is confined to the boundaries of what we have been told and that limit has been labelled 'science' however, when 'science' cannot prove these things are we all supposed to turn a blind eye.

I for one do not and therefore, I expand my knowledge base built around testimonies,experiences and research. From there I draw conclusions.

I may not know everything about space, but I do know about technology and we do not have technology that can perform such manouvers, if we did people would be making alot of money out of it by now.

I posted a thread a short while back and didn't get one single reply, the thread posed a ''possible'' explanation for a lot of sightings but it seems a lot of people want to believe so much that they will not consider any other explanation other than it has to be alien. Here's the link.

It got a star and a flag, meaning that somebody liked it enough to flag it but not say anything. Maybe they agreed with you up to a certain point. Its not so much that people will not consider other explanations, its the fact that NASA have been proven to lie to the general public. As NASA demand billions of funding, we should have a right to see where all this money is going?

Why is it that astronauts are not interviewed on television chat shows about UFOS and E.TS, why is that NASA only give us grainy camera images of space when we have technology out there offering us much clearer images.
Why is it that NASA do not offer us 24hour live broadcasts? why why why? because they are hiding something.

Don't just take this thread as an example look around and check it out for yourself.




[edit on 17-3-2009 by franspeakfree]

[edit on 17-3-2009 by franspeakfree]

Originally posted by franspeakfree
Take this video for example. Savior demanded why I believe that these objects are UFOS ET in origin.

I was not asking you to justify a belief. You made a scientific claim, that this video is undeniable evidence of extraterrestrial visitation. I asked you to back up that claim.

With regard to the HIGH SPEED TURN and the HYPER VELOCITY move on the David Sereda video, series 1 # 4-5. Can you please explain in prosaic terms, what we are looking at in these two clips? Please explain how the hell an object traveling at hyper speeds can make a 45 degree turn and not explode from the g-force. Then also please explain how any object can travel over 1000 miles at 900,000 mph, 250 feet per sec, in earths atmosphere and survive without burning up. This is way beyond comprehension and can not be debunked.

I am denying your proof that they know more, so therefore your proof isn't undeniable.

Originally posted by drummerroy39
With regard to the HIGH SPEED TURN and the HYPER VELOCITY move on the David Sereda video, series 1 # 4-5. Can you please explain in prosaic terms, what we are looking at in these two clips? Please explain how the hell an object traveling at hyper speeds can make a 45 degree turn and not explode from the g-force. Then also please explain how any object can travel over 1000 miles at 900,000 mph, 250 feet per sec, in earths atmosphere and survive without burning up. This is way beyond comprehension and can not be debunked.

Off topic, but you're right. An object cannot do that. It tells us the object is not in the atmosphere. It tells us the object does not travel over 1000 miles at 900,000 mph. It tells us that Sereda is completely off base.

One of my math teachers told me that when a result doesn't make sense, there's something wrong with the math or the assumptions. Sereda's got them both wrong.

Also, if I am not mistaken, the emerging UFOs are materializing directly over Africa...more specifically the Pyramids.