Why the Chemtrail Conspiracy is Unplausible, and Meteorologically Innacurate, page 8

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reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:06 PM by defcon5

Originally posted by Zepherian
Just phone your local airports and ask what those planes are, it's not hard to do.

That is just dumb to call, and pester people at the airport with this non-sense. After all you have airport people on here that you don't believe. Who you going to call anyway? What your local airport that is most likely uncontrolled, and has no idea what is flying over your house? Maybe the individual airlines or ticket counters, like a PSA has any idea what you are looking at. The person in flight ops for a specific airline, again, they don't have a radar scope. There is only one person who cold possibly answer your question, and that person is not allowed to answer the phone. That is the ATC controller handling the area that you are looking at. Those folks are a bit to busy to be answering stupid questions on the phone, and they could not give out that info for security reasons even if they could talk to you. Most anyone else out there has about as much of a chance to mess with you to be funny, as to tell you they have no idea what you are looking at.

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:11 PM by MrPenny

Originally posted by Zepherian
Just phone your local airports and ask what those planes are, it's not hard to do.

Hey....now there's a good way to get a visit from the stern gentlemen in unmarked, plain sedans.

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:16 PM by wonderworld

reply to post by MrPenny

Good point especially if knowledgeable people are now considered terrorists. High security at the airports!

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:16 PM by Zepherian

reply to post by defcon5

Notice how the debunkers get all riled up when suggestions come up that could burst their reality bubble...

It's not a dumb suggestion, it can be done, and I suspect has been done by a lot of other people over the last few years. At the very least they will tell you two things about chemtrail aircraft: Yes, they are there. No, we cannot tell you who they are.

I've done it and that was my answer. Again, don't trust the debunkers, some of these people I think have an agenda, the others have just convinced themselves they know something which they don't. It's always silly to advocate a negative opinion, truely wise people use two categories: stuff they know, stuff they don't yet know. Wise people don't debunk, they experience, and in the lack of experience stay open minded.

Lack of wisdom, despite mountains of data, are common in left brain thinkers, self proclaimed rationalists, who can know a lot yet still miss the bigger picture because they get caught up in their own messed up gnostic pathways and lack, for absense of a better term, common sense.

[edit on 16-3-2009 by Zepherian]

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:21 PM by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by sensfan

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

How about JUST ONE film, TV program or commercial shot between 1921 and 1998?

That shouldn't be too hard, should it?

Nope, not too hard at all actually...

YouTube Link

OK, I'm convinced!

If these so-called "persistent contrails" really existed prior to 1998 when Project Cloverleaf began, they would've been seen in millions of photos and thousands of films, TV programs and commercials. Chemtrails would be debunked in a nanosecond.

Instead, debunkers trot out their 60 year-old photos of WW II piston-engine bombers spewing massive particulate exhaust.

Just curious why anyone would spend their life on an internet conspiracy forum trying to convince others that something as obvious as chemtrails don't exist.

Just trying to prevent them from being afraid of something that doesn't exist?

LOL -- how noble. But maybe you should start with Osama "Tim Osman" bin Laden and al-CIAduh.

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:32 PM by MyNameIsNobody

Originally posted by defcon5
...Here is more historical military footage with contrails/chemtrails:

YouTube Link

Wrong.

End of video (seconds 33-39): No contrail. It’s mainly FIRE/SMOKE caused be the heap of burnt fuel required to attain the high speed.

Btw, seconds 22-32 of the video: ZERO contrails - because no chemicals were used to poison the population at that time.

[edit on 16-3-2009 by MyNameIsNobody]

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:40 PM by defcon5

reply to post by GoldenFleece

You need to go back and check my answer on this I gave you specific instances of Contrails in movies.... God Luck debunking that my friend.
Contrails in the 1970 movie Patton, explain that please?

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:42 PM by defcon5

reply to post by MyNameIsNobody

You can clearly see contrails form the B-52 and chase planes in the X-15 Video, that was from the 1960's, also before supposed chemtrails. Maybe you can answer to the rest of that post as well other then picking on one video.

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:44 PM by defcon5

Just out of fairness, lets see what professional pilots have to say on the topic, em?

I'll use AirlinePilotForum:

Chemtrails, Funny Stuff
There's a show on Discovery right now called "Best Evidence". They're examining the whole "chemtrails" conspiracy theory. One lady from California in particular is a riot. She has a wall of pictures showing differnet 'chemtrail' styles. The show paid a lab to perform analysis on jet fuel samples from across the country. I'll let you guys guess what they found...
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I watched it for a few minutes before I had to turn the channel. It was a good laugh.
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I saw this show today on the Disc. Channel.
What a joke...
But if i didnt know anything about jets, i would have so bought the whole story...
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There's no way to distinguish the diffference between chemtrails and contrails because there is no such thing as chemtrails.

Chemtrails
So, maybe I have been living under a rock all this time, but I have only recently heard of this things called chemtrails. From what I have read, it seems that there is a group of people who believe that a contrail should last no more than 5 minutes, and if it does then it is a chemtrail. They seem to believe that the government is spraying chemicals, from some unknown reason.

I saw some pictures of the supposed chemtrails, and they looked like contrails. I personnaly think it is all crap, and just some guys poor understanding of meteorology, and have tried to explain that to some of these people, but they won't hear it, because contrails, by some unknown law, can only last a short time.
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played a golf with one of those tree-hugger types last year who spent the first 5 holes complaining about how the airlines are shortening our life spans. the next 13 holes he decided to complain about how contrails ruin his blue sky and how the EWR traffic makes him suffer day in and day out...
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Well, from what it seems, they don't think all contrails are chemtrails, just the ones that last more than 5 minutes.

I can imagine seeing these people sitting in lawn chairs, with tin foil hats on, and a timer, timing each contrail, then when it exccedes 5 minutes they start running and yelling about the government spraying them with chemicals. I kinda feel bad for them.

I thought I was the only one who had to deal with these people.
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Most of the people that believe this are the same conspiracy theorists that swear there was a second gunman, that we didn't land on the moon, and the "victims" of 9-11 are in the witness protection program because it was an elaborate plot to bring us to war. Oh, the second plane to hit the towers was also a specially modified missile plane painted in a UA scheme. These people also typically like to answer a question with another question.
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You're < snip> kidding me, right?

Your pilot license should be revoked just for posting this. What sort of chemicals do you put in YOUR fuel tank?

All jet engines make a lot of water as a byproduct of combustion. It's real cold up in the flight levels. Contrails are ice crystals illuminated by sunlight. Depending on altitude, humidity, winds aloft, they could last a long time or not be visible at all. High altitude clouds are also frozen water droplets. Contrails are basically long, narrow clouds.

Some old, old jets might actually produce some real smoke.
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Sorry, thought you were serious. This kind of crap is a pet peeve of mine. The world has enough real problems without spending time, energy, and debate on fantasies derived from the doped-up minds of semi-educated paranoids.
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No problem. I was just trying to figure out whether it was something others have heard about, or if it was just something this guy thought up. The more I look into the more I see how widespread it is (as in locations, not nesscarly people-wise), and how little facts are used in the arguements, and how they butcher meteorology.

Does anyone know who started this??? I heard it was some late-nate talk-show radio host who did other things like UFOs, and the like.

I have also read that these people actually harass NASA meteorologists and the like. I have tried to go about disproving them, but they completely ignore facts.

So what you think of chemtrails now?

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:45 PM by doctordoom

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by doctordoom

Way to copy and paste that anonymous post from another thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

As for your answer you say that one in ten thousand should even form a contrail, in 2006 there were almost 50,000 flights a day worldwide. That number has gone up since then, and it's estimated now that there are as many as 90,000 flights a day, including small commercial aircraft.

Now out of those, if you have one that leaves a contrail, then any other aircraft flying a route through the same area will leave a contrail as well. So if you have five flights a day going from Newark to Los Angeles, you're going to have five flights going on a similar route, which means five contrails.

*Snip*

No matters, this thread is already full of the usual government shills posting their ever so dangerous disinfo to keep the sheeple following the government and not thinking on their own.

By the way, I was a crew chief in the Navy and took basic meteorology and aerodynamics and other things associated with aviation and submarine hunting. I run a company with 53 employees, so I'm not some dumb brainwashed idiot as these "debunkers" would have folks believe.

I have been studying Chemtrails for at least 4 years and have a above average understanding how the atmosphere works. I grew up around a ski area that uses silver iodide for making snow, so I understand perfectly, better than most, how that works.

If you folks insist on leading folks in the wrong direction, away from the truth, then you will have to answer to that. My conscious is clean.

[edit on 16-3-2009 by doctordoom]

Mod Edit: Terms and Conditions: Removed Off Topic Banter

[edit on 3/16/2009 by semperfortis]

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:51 PM by sensfan

So. fighter jets in the middle of high altitude dogfights in WWII were spraying chemicals?

And what is this?

and this?

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 06:54 PM by MyNameIsNobody

Originally posted by defcon5
... Maybe you can answer to the rest of that post as well other then picking on one video.

Sorry, but picking out a part is not against the rules. You ALSO posted this one as “evidence”.

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 07:01 PM by defcon5

Originally posted by Zepherian
Notice how the debunkers get all riled up when suggestions come up that could burst their reality bubble...

Funny, I don't feel riled up at all, I have been having a rather splendid evening.
Notice how believers cannot handle when reality is smacking them in the face?

Originally posted by Zepherian
It's not a dumb suggestion, it can be done.

Yes it is a dumb suggestion for the reason I gave above. First thing is that they cannot give out flight information over the phone. That rule has been in effect since the 1990's for security reasons. This is why in the late 80's to early 90's you cold no longer call the airline to find out what flight someone was on. They don't give out flight info besides departure/arrival times.

Originally posted by Zepherian
At the very least they will tell you two things about chemtrail aircraft: Yes, they are there. No, we cannot tell you who they are.

More likely the conversation would go like this:

Ring...
{Ops Agent} John's Airways, this is John speaking.
{caller} There is an aircraft over my house and its leaving a trail behind it, can you tell me if its spraying me with Chemicals?
{Ops Agent} Yes ma'am it might well be doing that, we recommend that you hold your breath until it dissipates.

Click...
{One of the Many people sitting around Flight ops} What was that about?
{Ops Agent} Some Chemtard wanting to know if we are spraying them with chemicals....

Laugher and high fives ensue...

Originally posted by Zepherian
others have just convinced themselves they know something which they don't.

The rest of us just get a good laugh out of these threads as we do know what we are talking about. See my Pilots Forum post above.

Originally posted by Zepherian
It's always silly to advocate a negative opinion, truely wise people use two categories: stuff they know, stuff they don't yet no.

That is unless you are talking about their field of professional expertise that they worked in for many years, and they do know this stuff for A FACT.

Originally posted by Zepherian
Lack of wisdom, despite mountains of data,

There is no DATA to prove this hoax, all you guys have is a lot of speculation, misconceptions, and crappy pictures of contrails. Beyond that you seem to have a support base of folks who have just about as little knowledge as yourself, telling their similarly askew experiences.

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 07:06 PM by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by doctordoom
reply to post by OzWeatherman

What is your point of being on a conspiracy site??

To lead the people to their death. You are guilty.

If you bothered to red any of my other posts, you wil find out that weather related threads are not my only interest, and I do believe in some conspiracies. If you dont like me challenging your opinions, then why bother coming to this thread? If you have an issue with it, complain to the mods, Im sure you will just get laughed at.

If you think Im leading you to your death, then dont follow, I never told you to. This thread is more for the newer members that sit on the fence, that want to see the other side, rather than be forced fed your threads all the time

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 07:07 PM by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by ChemBreather
You go up there and prove to me it is just water vapour , or else ZipIt !

Ive already proved its water vapour...

That was entire point of posting the weather balloon data, plus the link to all weather balloon data in the world

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 07:10 PM by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
He says he is a meterologist - well if he has nothing to hide why does he not tell us his real name and where he really works... I saw a mod on another thread basically out a meterologist for his stance on these real chemtrails and in public view spelled out his name.

wZn

Ive repeatedly said that my facebook account link is available on my profile page. If you want to see it then its there available for you.

Just dont post any of my information here

And to the mods, I invite you to log my IP address, and you can tell the people calling me liars where I am typing from right now. That will prove I am who I say I am.

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 07:13 PM by AllTiedTogether

As always, the posts with stars are the ones mostly provided by the disinfo artists, and the ones worth reading with little to none. Also, the same group of hard-heads leaving the chemtrails to cloud our view. Oz, Zaphod58, fooffstarr,. WeedWacker.... I've noted a pattern to these and other posters on threads like this. Ask for intelligent discussion and then slam them down when they provide any valid data, making sure your posts have lots of nothing in them and that the valid posts get buried under the garbage. Your very good at following the rules of the art but must remember that the majority of viewers are able to think for themselves and don't get steered into a thinking just because your able to call someones data invalid. You must also provide data to show that what is provided is not valid, which you have definitely failed.

I think the reason people don't believe the bomber footage is at all valid is because the planes don't show them from the ground, therefore they don't show that a chemtrail or contrail could be lingering for the more than 30secs that a NORMAL contrail will be evident. I imagine these contrails were dispersed within 30secs unless they were also combined with fumes etc then they would have lingered a little longer.

In this thread alone we have had enough proof shown to say that the government is admitting to the CHEMTRAILS and admits that it uses chemicals etc to manipulate the weather. These jokers want you to believe that the 'chaff' that the military admits to using is OK, yet provides no proof that they are infact dropping 'chaff'. Your lacking proof boys. Did you get air samples of that 'chaff' drop to prove it? Yet we have people that have actually collected samples of this 'goo' etc and have confirmed reports of 'barium' in high concentrations, and you don't think the data is valid. Did you know that 'barium' is used in imaging also? Imaging of the body and the environment, using HAARP.

The military has already admitted to dropping chemicals and poisons on us in the 60s and 70s, after the fact... This is not the first time they have admitted using biological weapons on the human population decades after. When will they admit to doing this? Well they've already admitted to chemtrails in 107th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 2977. Why would the government use the word chemtrails if they were not CHEMICAL TRAILS?

The group that frequent these threads to put holes into the true nature of the chemical onslaught against humanity is in my opinion providing the most obvious disservice to mankind. Just look for the stars and you have the group. Pat yourself on the back boys, you are good human beings.

[edit on 16-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 07:17 PM by MrPenny

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
the true nature of the chemical onslaught against humanity

The "chemical onslaught against humanity" isn't coming from some illusory "chemtrails"....it's in the food and water.

[edit on 17-3-2009 by MrPenny]

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 07:18 PM by OzWeatherman

reply to post by AllTiedTogether

Thanks for your post

Like all the chemtrailers that have come on this thread so far, you have yet to disprove anything that was in my original post. Just about all the posts have been claiming me and others are liars or disnfo agents.

So why dont you guys actually do something about it and try to disprove what this thread was about? And why start using words like sheeple, disinfo agents and liars?

Do you feel threatened by my thread?

reply posted on 16-3-2009 @ 07:21 PM by AllTiedTogether

reply to post by MrPenny

I keep forgetting that the chemtrails don't fall to the ground in your thinking and then the barium and aluminum derivatives etc that are in the chemtrails don't get into the water and therefore into the food. They just stay in the air and........................................... stay..... Don't go anywhere....

Thanks for clearing that up....