Why the Chemtrail Conspiracy is Unplausible, and Meteorologically Innacurate

reply to post by firepilot


Talking of google earth firepilot, do a google earth scan of the boneyard .
A military friend in special forces pointed it out to me. top right hand corner of the yard , I think, you will see two unusual looking delta winged craft . They are the old aurora's that replaced the sr71 for a while .
dont know if they are still there now but check it out .

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Something from nothing eh ? Well thats an interesting phenomenon .

Have you explained to these good people yet what causes lightning ? Or those highly localised hail storms that HMAS albatross predicts to the very hour ? Hmmmm. maybe the navy knows more about artificial weather than you do . "They may have had the weather gauge ,but we have the weather gods".

maybe thats why the aborigines call our area fire mountain and place of lightning . Ever seen one of those lonely symetrical clouds that spark wildly around their periphery and yet make no sound at all , sometimes at very low altitudes where we live (maybe twice tree top hieght ) .

Sometimes the lightning strikes are bright enough to briefly expose and overide the cloak and you will see a large ominous grey shape looming above or nearby . SPOOKY.



[edit on 23-3-2009 by reconpilot]

reply to post by Zaphod58


Interesting isnt it how many subject matter experts ,archivists and the like are skeptics . Why are they here if all the subject matter this site deals with is paranoia ,ignorance and conspiracy theory ?

Dont they have anything better to do ? Or is maintaining a credible smoke screen (excuse the pun ) part of their brief ?

I guess so.

Maybe ATS would do better to state DENY EVERYTHING. after all it is standing policy at the pentagon . Even when a weather ballon becomes a crash test dummy . USAF !

Originally posted by reconpilot
[ Yes ,geneva airport is a busy place, its winter ,its cold ,its high altitude .
And because of global warming ,the ski resorts are starting to see the effects . Less snow ,shorter season , land slides as permafrost melts ,stuff like that .

Global warming is still an unproven thoery. There is not enough historical meteorological data, to suggest that the earth has heated significantly from mans intervention, just like there is not enough data to disprove it. I thought you said "chemtrails" were the casue of the snow melting?

My problem with you OZ is not your lack of competence in your specialised expertise .My problem is your need to deny in areas where you do not have the credentials to do so. And if you did you would not be able to talk about it .

And my problem with you is that you have no credentials in meteorology, and most of your "experience" comes from what you say. And if I was suppressed to hide something, then why haven't the military shut you up, seeing as you claim to be involved with top secret aircraft and alien technology? Thats a pretty big thing to claim, and Im sure they wouldnt like you talking about it

I have sat in the garden with a retired pilot while we looked up. He turned to me and said, "thats not a regular contrail" . Nope ,I replied ,sure does not look like one to me either . 'Must be soapy rain I guess' .

And this proves what?

You are not ,regardeless of wether you like to admit or not able to say with ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY that their is no chemical modification of our atmosphere going on. Anymore than you can say you KNOW BEYOND DOUBT that the RAAF does not have advanced antigrav type craft .

I know there is no chemical modification of the upper atmosphere from the spraying of harmful chemicals. Ive asked before (repeatedly), for you to disprove the science behind contrail persistence and formation

I never said there are not any anti-grav craft, I simply stated they I work in the boundaries of a military and civlian combined airport, and Ive seen the F-111's on numerous occasions. Why would modified top secret plane take off from a civilian airport?

you cant mate ,because you are not so qualified . like it or not ,you dont have the security clearance or need to know.

ACCEPT IT .

And you are qualified?

Smoke is a very broad brush description that can be wildly misrepresented ,so dont ask entraping questions . You are trying to confine and shut down the debate by making unreasonable requests from people who are ham strung by official secrets. You insist of polarising the debate so it cannnot inform people . You narrow it to your specialism when the reality goes WAY BEYOND your scope and expertise .

You know that .

Whats so hard about doing some decent research and debating the original post. You are the one making unreasonable posts, deflecting from the original topic of the debate.

And believ me, if I wanted the debate shut down, I wouldnt still be posting would I....

Originally posted by reconpilot
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

Something from nothing eh ? Well thats an interesting phenomenon .

Have you explained to these good people yet what causes lightning ? Or those highly localised hail storms that HMAS albatross predicts to the very hour ? Hmmmm. maybe the navy knows more about artificial weather than you do . "

Sorry, this thread isnt about lightning.....off topic

And considering the Navy's meteorologists train with us, at the same time as we are trained, then I would assume we know the exact same stuff

And by the way, the large ominous dark shape you see between flashes, normally turns out to be the cumulonimbus cloud spawning those flashes

Originally posted by reconpilot
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

Interesting isnt it how many subject matter experts ,archivists and the like are skeptics . Why are they here if all the subject matter this site deals with is paranoia ,ignorance and conspiracy theory ?

Thats a question for the mods, but in my opinion if we didnt have skeptical view points then everyone would believe everyhting that is written. In case you havent realised, this site is for EVERYONE, not just conspiracy theorists

Dont they have anything better to do ? Or is maintaining a credible smoke screen (excuse the pun ) part of their brief ?

I guess so.

Just because someone doesnt agree with you, doesnt mean they are a disinof agent. I know that what you are insinuating here....and I believe we were told to refrain from that earlier

Originally posted by reconpilot
reply to post by firepilot

 

Talking of google earth firepilot, do a google earth scan of the boneyard .
A military friend in special forces pointed it out to me. top right hand corner of the yard , I think, you will see two unusual looking delta winged craft . They are the old aurora's that replaced the sr71 for a while .
dont know if they are still there now but check it out .

Either someone is pulling your chain or you are trying to do that here. USAF does not store black projects aircraft at AMARC, there are no "Aurora" or anything else like that at the boneyard. There would be photos all over the internet if there was such a plane in storage there.

You are probably looking at some F-14s or F-111s that have their wings back. There are also at least a couple F-106s in there too.

But people are welcome to use google earth and find some of those super secret chemplane bases






[edit on 23-3-2009 by firepilot]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


OzW....I'm glad to see your thread has generated (no pun) lots of interest and controversy.

Seems the 'mark' of a good thread DOES stimulate....and by 'stimulate' I mean it strays off-topic, until corralled back in.

It has become heated (appropriate) and cooled back down (again, appropriate) but, has been entertaining, in the main. Which is a great thing to experience.

Salutations, sir!! Your thread 'title' seemed to hit smack-dab on the pulse of the audience.

And, no....I am NOT being sarcastic. I believe my position in this 'debate' is very clear. Won't repeat here, just read my other posts.

Is THIS off-topic?? No, I don't think so, especially because I stand by my science, knowledge and experience -- just as the OP stands by his.....

reply to post by pynner


Heh the original translation has NO mention of chemtrails AT ALL. In fact if anyone understands German, they can listen to it and hear no mention of "chemtrails".

Ahh but chaff! That is a different story! Military aircraft using chaff? GASP! Chaff is not a chemtrail. lol! You've been duped by a chemtrail LIAR.

[edit on 3/23/2009 by GenRadek]

reply to post by GenRadek


GenRadek.....

Glad to see a German Speaker come around to tell the truth!!

It is a pleasure!!!

reply to post by weedwhacker


You sir, are quite welcome!

I took german in High school and some in college.

Just listening to the original video minus the annoying BAD translation, we should have heard the words: chemische Spur
or something along these lines.
I think Duppel is the correct german word for chaff. I'd have to listen to the video again, but if you hear Duppel, thats chaff!

People getting duped by a chemtrail liar? GASP x2 !

I mentioned one of them huxsters earlier, William Thomas, who of course was one of the earlier ones spreading the word, in addition to his chemtrail books one could buy.

One of his friends, Len Horowitz did the same thing. But then with books, pamphets and speeches, all of course for the right fee. They both favorably reviewed each others books, etc, and turned their chemtrails hoax into a small cottage industry for a while. They probably both made a fair amount of money from it. The owner of Chemtrail Central apparently does not even believe in chemtrails anymore either, but he still keeps his website going to get the advertising cash.

I think it was William Thomas who spread the false chemtrail mantra that contrails can only last for 7 seconds and be pencil thin, and anything different is chemtrails. I think he was also somewhat responsible for utterly dishonest statements too that chaff is something sprayed like a powder, which has misled chemtrail believers to this day, as obviously some statements in this thread of shown.



[edit on 23-3-2009 by firepilot]

reply to post by GenRadek


GenRadek....

I have no German....but 'duppel' sounds very similar to 'dopple'....maybe the English version....as in 'doppleganger', which, is Angliscized, in spelling and pronounciation....but, English has certain Germanic roots, after all, besides the other language influences....

Straying off....sorry.....

However, it should shut-down the baloney of the 'chemtrail' websites that wish to use out-right lies to promote their stance......and, this is just an example of how they do it!!!!

reply to post by OzWeatherman


So you have seen an f111 with your own eyes and that means it cannot possibly have advanced avionics ,cloaking technology and anti grav, because you have seen one parked just up the way ?

Thats your proof is it ?

Did the ground crew give you a personal guided tour and share all the classified stuff ? No, I dont think so .

Thing is about liquid nano tech is its ability to migrate and disguise itself .

When the americans stole the TSR2 program, they did not get their mits on the most advanced avionics . In particular the ,highly sensitive sensor arrays . NOT RADAR, but sensor .

The same teams who developed all our most succesfull ww2 tech such as the homing torpedo's that ended the uboat campaign were part of tsr2 .

common sense should tell you that the succes of any defence force lies in its ability to keep its tech capability secret . How to manafacture it ,how to deploy it. HOW TO DISGUISE IT .

The real reason that cloud is sparking wildly at just above tree top hieght is because its not a cloud . Its a craft using high voltage discharge to burn atmospheric crud off its hull after entering earths polluted atmosphere.

Hey ,laugh all you want . But im telling you , not all clouds are what they appear to be.

As for me getting away with saying this stuff .Thats a good point . I guess the ADF does not mind as long as I dont get TO specific .When I do stray to far , I am edited before the post is sent .

My family has a long history of cunning . We intervene , we share technology when its called for and we walk away when the job is done.
We rarely if ever take credit , but then thats because humans like to steal that much for themselves . Without our continuos intervention in your sordid affairs this planet would be in far more dire straits than it is now.

Sidney Cotton was famous for calling a spade a spade. Without his recon unit and its expertise , britain would have fallen to the nazis. They would have got nukes in to their v2's and it would all have been over .
That would be one mushroom cloud you could not put down to ice crystals and water vapour.

The dambusters raid destroyed the nazis heavy water proccesing plants .
Subsequent raids by our mosquito squadrons kept further attempts in check.

What has this to do with weather modification ? hey you still have a free country dont you ? Appreciate it and be thankfull because there are those who work very hard to take every last vestige of it away.

And there are those who work even harder without thanks to keep you free .

reply to post by GenRadek


Yes, duppel is the German for chaff. And has been since WWII. The video was deliberately posted to youtube with fake subtitles - I guess it shows how deperate the hoaxers are to perpetuate their scam?

en.wikipedia.org...(radar_countermeasure)

de.wikipedia.org...(Radart%C3%A4uschung)

dict.tu-chemnitz.de...

dic.academic.ru...

The irony is, if this really was evidence of chemtrails then it's mean anyone in the world can easily see if chemtrails are being sprayed by looking at rianfall radar

But I guess the hoaxers don't think that far ahead .....

reply to post by reconpilot


reconpilot.....I was following you, with relish.....until you mentioned Nazi's use of Nuclear.....come on!!!!

The Nazis were barely investigating 'heavy water'.....they WERE better in rocket tech (hence the V1 and V2).....and that is likely why 'operation paperclip' took so many to the USA side in 1945. (Who knows how many were recruited by the USSR?)

BUT, we are straying off....

....staying off....because it's fun.....and Oz won't mind (?) ... anti-grav is a great concept. I hope it exists. It implies, as well, the concept of protection from acceleration forces, in spacecraft.

BUT, to bring this around to 'chemtrails'.....ummmm, if the 'anti-grav' or 'inertial dampener' technology really exists.....then it makes no sense to use Military airplanes to 'spray' so-called 'chemtrails'.....

Anyone else get the dis-connect????

I never said chem caused snow to melt. Quite the opposite in fact .
The causes of global warming are numerous and I will state again , atmospheric pollution ,be it con or chem is actually reducing the effects of global warming , not increasing them. My postion on that is that its a neccesary evil . And when dealing with humans you have to choose the lesser of two evils more often than not .

so your telling me that the ice caps are not melting ,the sea is not rising , coral bleaching is not happpening and we can all go back to sleep ,safe in the knowledge that oz weatherman HAS DONE HIS RESEARCH AND BY GOD THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH FOR YOU!!! ?

Tell me, why would a highly modified plane not land at a civvy airport when everyone assumes its an old clunker ? Perfect cover if you ask me.

Our unit flew out of a civvy airport during the war for the same reason.

During the last war we had to contend with 'experts in the RAF' all the time , experts who sent recon units to inevitable death because they could not even figure out something as simple as stopping the camera lens from fogging up !

We 'invented' high altitude recon .we were the first to have to deal with the problems of leaving a contrail for the enemy to see . Thats why we modified our spits so we could outfly fighters attempting to intercept .

Sidney Cotton was an aussie by the way , did you know that ?

I dont have a problem with the military modifying the atmosphere as part of its defensive capabilities . As long as the nano particles are non toxic . But sooner or later someone will abuse any technology for more sinister ends if you let them. The history of warfare is a catalogue of horrific abuses , DENY THAT IF YOU CAN. Biological weapons exist too .Deny that if you want to loose crediblity.

I have already stated that YES , there is a lot of paranoia amongst the chem crowd . But the technology does exist and it can be abused and they have every reason to be afraid that it will, based on the unlearnt lessons of history . BECAUSE HUMANS are lazy greedy and apathetic and as long as they continue to be so ,they will vote in corrupt self serving pollies who will tell them whatever they want to hear.
In the meantime ,the good people in military and intelligence circles ,constrained by politicaly appointed commisars , do their best to frustrate the plans of the corrupt through cunning ,wit,the occasional well placed leak and superior intelligence . After all ,theres no one more easily led than an egomaniac like Hitler, for example .

And the ADF did not let Howard get away with the children overboard scandal . Im sorry that young man who questioned me about radar did not come back. I can only guess he took what I posted here and cross checked it with someone in the know. Good for him , we need more young people like that with an open questioning mind . I imagine thats why he was blessed with the opportunity to see one of our craft uncloak over his house eh ? Unless he is lying through his teeth .

And what happened to that courageous intel officer who exposed the sexed up WMD reports ? Thats courage right there .

It is perhaps unfortunate that culturally speaking REAL AUSSIES dont waste time with being 'polite and well mannered' . They tell it like it is. Unfortunately I am now threatened with banishment for being blunt and to the point . I guess that will make your job of 'proving your point' a bit easier . But you know ,you cant 'prove' to be untrue anything you are not aware of ,or that remains classified information. There are secrets that need to be kept and I dont have a problem with that .

But this much I know .They still 'dust' for fingerprints at the scene of a crime . They still dust crops ,they still dust over the facts and maybe ,just maybe ,when the dust settles you will see a few things you did not believe in before .

Not everything is in your book....... and cloaking an 'outdated' f111 really is as easy as flicking a switch . Aussie ingenuity mate ! havent you heard of that ?

reply to post by reconpilot


recon.....you made it difficult to determine whether you were a 'youngster' or an 'oldster'.

I'll admit my bias.....because IF you were a 'youngster' I would have a different opinion. I am now tending towards the 'oldster' hypothesis, and as such, I will give you some latitude.

Not sure what, exactly, I mean by that....except to say, as one old guy to another, you deserve some respect.

That's it....guess that's what I wanted to say......

I would like to ask for a serious opinion. Hopefully this won't get lost in the argument since I don't think it would be worth making a thread on its own. I don't have any evidence, just a description by myself. Someone else was with me at the time, but neither of us had any sort of camera.

What caught our attention was a plane, I assume. The reason it caught our attention is that the sun was setting and it was catching the light so that it appeared to glow orange. It was quite spectacular. What kept my attention was the trail behind it, rather like a tail for descriptive purposes. This "tail" dissipated a uniform distance behind the aircraft, and by dissipate I mean left no other trace. It was perhaps 10x the length of the aircraft.

Describing the aircraft would be impossible. At the height it was, it appeared the size of a gnat perhaps 3 inches from my face. Tiny.

It made two passes over the same area, flying over and then swinging around immediately and returning on the same path. It didn't leave a contrail. In fact there were no clouds in the sky other than the one that streamed behind it.

Any idea what this was, what it was doing? Cloud seeding? I'm not making conclusions myself. It's been a mystery to me since seeing it.