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Why the Chemtrail Conspiracy is Unplausible, and Meteorologically Innacurate

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posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
Ever hear of an antidote given to someone before they go into an area where it may be needed. Or maybe the malaria shot if you go into this type of area...


So, the family members of the people who are doing the spraying are all getting special shots? And not one of them has ever said anything about it, not even kids? Plus, if this is true, you now have to add the people who make, distribute, and administer these "shots" to the conspiracy. By the time we're done, the people in this thread may be the only ones left who don't officially know about chemtrails.

I attempted to follow all of your links, but they all lead to the main page of the same site and I'm not prepared to dig through all of their hundreds of articles to get the specific information you're referring to. Can't you link to the specific article or page, or at least give the name of the article you're referring to?



contrails that are suppose to dissipate are forming into clouds and causing extremly weird visual phenomena that is not normal..


Who says they are supposed to dissipate? As we've mentioned several times, there are newspaper articles, published studies, and pictures that go back to the 1960's which show and discuss persistent contrails forming clouds, creating an overcast sky, and even causing rain.


All you have to believe is that someone higher up in the hierarchy has the ability to make certain functions of the government, not a single government, any government, secret.


So, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that someone high up in the hierarchy of ALL these governments is simultaneously conducting this spraying? Who's doing it for the countries who don't even possess the technology to do such a thing?

 


Originally posted by SuZQQQ
if you observe contrails they extend probably several hundred feet behind the aircraft and dissipate very quickly, within seconds - the natural dominance of the colder air over the evaporating heat source.


No. We've already proved many times over in this thread that ordinary contrails CAN be persistent for hours and can dissipate into cloud cover. Persistence of a contrail does not make it a chemtrail.
 



Originally posted by Valdis
If dead birds are what you are looking for you may want to check these out if you haven't already.


I read your links. Did you? In one case the birds were killed by aspergillus infections after eating dumped grain, in another the cause of death was avian cholera, and others they were known to have been exposed to herbicides which were dumped into the water. Nothing to do with "chemtrails."



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


I know what chaff is fireboy . I also know that there are exceptions to every rule depending on the type and design of the aircraft .

Ju88's could ,when specially modified catch a high flying mosquito with NOS injection .

I merely stated the relative merits of piston engined craft at that particular time during the bombing raids over germany, since everyone was refering to pictures of the b 17 .

So chill out and stop trying to score cheap points by taking my statements out of context to make your self look credible.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by reconpilot
So chill out and stop trying to score cheap points by taking my statements out of context to make your self look credible.


I suggest you listen up.

We don't speak to each other that way on ATS.

You've been here since '06 and you should know better.

Civility and Decorum are Expected

There are too many people who have posted in this thread that seem to think its their own personal ground for insulting people. That stops NOW

Any more of these petty, stupid, pointless insults from ANY - and I do mean ANY poster in this thread, and the full weight of the T&C is going to come down.

I'm tired of the bickering, I'm tired of the rhetoric and I'm damn tired of the attitudes. We're all supposed to be adults having an adult conversation, so how about we all start acting like it?



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


And regarding specifically the b 36 ,widely described as the 'billion dollar blunder' . The operational cieling of this air craft was mainly due to its very high aspect ratio wings ,much like the U2 and liberator .
It was also famously unreliable and prone to catastrophic engine fires .

The constelation also had a reputation for loosing an engine in flight every now and then.

High aspect ratio winged craft are notoriously tricky to fly safely . But thats really off topic now.

The appeal of radials was lower cost and maintenance . But they dont handle high altitude as well as liquid cooled engines unfortunately .



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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I do not have to look credible, I have the experience and expertise to back it up. Sorry, it was a completely inaccurate blanket statement in regards to radial engines that you and others have made on here. Yours was not as bad as the others though, who claimed WW2 contrails were just giant smoke trails, which is utterly ludicrous.

The height an aircraft could get to, was not able whether it was radial or inline, but more about whether it had turbo/supercharging, or normal induction, plus the design of the airplane. Thats not however germane to "Chemtrails".

But the point remains, anyone who says Chaff is particulates or something sprayed, is spouting nonsense from a chemtrail site. Anyone who says the engines from WW2 left merely just giant smoke/particulate trails across the sky, is spouting utterly ludicrious nonsense. I am not insulting the person, just their argument.

Plenty of WW2 aircraft still fly at airshows, or are used even in cargo or private ownership to this day. You can even find on youtube the exact C-54 (as tanker 65) WW2 aircraft I flew for a bit, and you can see it taking off. Sorry, some others on this thread will be disappointing in no smoke clouds on takeoff.

Fact - WW2 aircraft made contrails.
Fact - in right conditions, they persisted.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 04:56 PM
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Ok.

The topic of this thread is


Why the Chemtrail Conspiracy is Unplausible, and Meteorologically Innacurate



I don't see anyones name in there.

Discuss the topic. Not the people. Its a basic concept.

If you cannot discuss the actual topic and feel you must make it personal, then - simply - don't post.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 





Well the good thing about chaff - both in that accuweather report and the previous German story with the fake subtitles is that although we can't see it, radar can So we know if it's out there (which, of course, was the point of both videos!).


If you check here, here, here, here, and here you will see that radar can indeed see these CHEMTRAILS and its been noted since 2000. They work with the HAARP txtr in Alaska and are used to put domes of whatever over top of certain areas of the world. As you can see by the pictures they are being seen by radar. At first tv met techs believed it was flocks of birds or something along that line.... but birds don't show up as domes covering a whole city unless these birds are invisible...

But then again you had these wx radar images showing that their city was covered and yet they had clear skies underneath... Or did they? If you look at the Simpsons movie where they are placed under an EPA dome for violation of environmental rules, you will see possibly what those in the city see that are under this dome that is only seen by radar. I know its a movie but fiction has a way of creeping into reality during the movies lately... Using a dome like this will enable them to also project visuals on the dome cover to allow for those within the dome to see images of... maybe the new maitraya/christ and his alien brothers.

Thanks for the movies and keep them coming and I'll see what else I can prove to you.... Check out HAARP and all its patents. For Weather modification using nanotech dispersed within the air, for placing a dome over top of an area to protect from missile strikes etc... The HAARP was part of Star Wars missile defense... the one that Reagan signed with Gorbachev using his masonic handshake to admit compliance to the PTBs rules...

All the info is out there... Check out Carnicom.com and Bariumblues.com, both are fantastic sites for exactly what is being done to us and they have the samples that have come down on peoples heads to prove it.

Rgds



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
If you check here, here, here, here, and here you will see that radar can indeed see these CHEMTRAILS and its been noted since 2000.


Those images appear to show normal rainfall. Please explain why you think they show something else?



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Supercharging air cooled radial engines is more hazardous than liquid cooled because you cannot maintain as stable a temp around the critical engine block ,cylinder and head. Thats why the most succesfull high alltitude bombers and fighters were generally Merlin powered . You can use higher boost pressures to get the scarcer oxygen . Common sense .
Its a reliablity issue . Thats why most cars a liquid cooled too .

I flew a highly modified spitfire on recon . I was one of cottons clubs pilots .



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by Heike
 





No. We've already proved many times over in this thread that ordinary contrails CAN be persistent for hours and can dissipate into cloud cover. Persistence of a contrail does not make it a chemtrail.


My links will provide the data you need, just follow the info on the sidebar to the left and you have all you could need. Much like the contrail experts have provided, I think you also can sift through and find what your looking for. It is not on one page alone and takes reading.

As to your comment above, It's been proven that contrails will not last longer that 30secs in normal aircraft flight. The trails that are seen lasting longer than that and that cover the skies from horizon to horizon are not contrails but CHEMTRAILS.... This has been shown on almost each page that is within this thread.

In reference to the antidote question. You have to not have so many stringent rules that make up your scenarios.... The PTB are spraying and some of their loved ones are under it. Someone gets a symptom of what they are told to look for. They bring their loved one to a doctor that is in the know of it, maybe this doctor is part of their group but you won't know because its a SECRET. The doctor tells the patient that it is nothing that this antibiotic can't help, or this other pill. Or they say they are going to do a blood sample and the vial has a serum in it that has what they need for you.... This is if they want to save some families. I think this would only be done to those that are higher up.

Think of it like this. The military knows that with what is coming soon may be bad and that those military may not fight unless they know their loved ones are protected too. That's why the extra security on bases etc... next it will be extra protection via inoculations etc... They are protecting us eh?

Rgds



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
It's been proven that contrails will not last longer that 30secs in normal aircraft flight.



It has most certainly has not been proven! Rather, it's been shown (time and time and time again) that they may last hours and that this has been well known for decades.

Are you still refusing to look at research papers like this?

Do you have a logical reason to dismiss such observations? If so, please let us know rather than just ignoring the issue.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 


Rainfall? I saw one picture from the live radar site that had these domes covering almost every major city in the US. Just happened to be directly over top of the major centers....

Why do I not think it rainfall? Because when I found these radar images as I also found that there were pictures of some of these cities from the ground level and they had clear skies from most of them. I will try to find these pictures but most, like the ones I've posted have already been removed from various websites. Go figure..

Rgds



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Your sentimental attachement to radials is understandable . I flew radial powered beaufighters and I know where they excell . BUT there's a reason why those old air cooled V dub engines tend to burn out quicker.
Deprived of a stabilising blanket of coolant , you get differential hot spots ,uneven expansion of moving parts ,then bang , youve scuffed a piston liner and all hell can break loose.

I love the elegant simplicity of radials because you did not have to worry about your coolant system getting shot out and the hercules engine could take a lot of hits and still get you home.

Its all pros and cons and you and I both know that . But we are both off topic .

Sure , the civvies get over excited and their lack of technical knowledge works against them sometimes BUT chemtrailing is not a figment of their imagination unfortunately .

My family used to own westland aircraft . I have deep roots in the history of aviation from the get go. RJ mitchell was a family friend who lived just up the road from us in eastliegh . I know a lot of friends and family in the business who are deeply angered by this missuse of power and so should you be if you are a GENUINE VETERAN .



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 


Your research paper is not addressing the issue of why these chemtrails are being seen emitting particulates that are being found dropping to the ground... So your research paper does not take into account what the government has already admitted to doing. I for one have read that the government admitted to spraying various chemicals and poisons on their population and it was done in secret at the time. They now acknowledge it. I now know that it is being done again in secret, how do I know? I can see it with my eyes and with the evidence that is being presented in this thread as well as many others on chemtrails. You don't have to be a scientist to know that the government is telling the truth when they say they are spraying the population do you?

rgds



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
reply to post by defcon5
 

But the trail normally dissipates after 30secs at an altitude of approx 30,000ft, which is approx the height that contrails were normally seen.


Many chemtrailers say that, but what I want to know is the science behind that way of thinking. You always say that, but never provide logical reasoning behind that assumption



That is before chemtrails came along and then spoiled the science... so they adjusted the data to make the chemtrail data point to contrails...


So, they adjusted the data in, what is it....1998? Isnt that when chemtrailers say the first sightings occured?



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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As to your comment above, It's been proven that contrails will not last longer that 30secs in normal aircraft flight. T


Okay, tell us logically how this is possible. I do not seen ice or liquid water clouds that are made naturally just dying every 30 seconds. Basically you read something another chemtrail believer said, and took it as an article of faith, without even thinking about it. Thats why I think chemtrails is like a religion to some people.

If the air is really cold, or really humid, its more apt to have water condensation because aircraft are adding water to the atmosphere. The colder it is, the more likely it is to freeze and persist and become cirrus made from airplanes.

That is why on chemtrail boards, they go less active in summer months, but every winter, you will invariably see "Wow, biggest spray day ever" which just happens to coincide with colder air, just like less trails in summer just happens to conincide with warmer air aloft.

But, humor me this. If it is impossible for suspended ice crystals to last longer than 30 seconds, then why is there ice on Everest all year long at just under 30,000 ft?


[edit on 20-3-2009 by firepilot]



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


Quit with the demeaning label "chemtrailers"!
We are a diverse set of people who believe some if not most of our air pollution is intentionally generated (Especially with our decline in Factories, pollution-causing jobs, etc.)!



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
reply to post by MrPenny
 

..

I researched and found out that most contrails occurred at 30,000ft or above when the engine would heat the moisture in the atmosphere to 50degrees difference etc....


Well, obviously you didnt do too much research. While the height is mostly dependant on contrail formation, the temperature and humidity are the depending factors....NOT THE HEIGHT OF THE PLANE.

Your figures are also incorrect. Contrails form at temperatures lower than -35 degrees celsius, and do not heat the environment, it impossible. The large super cooled environment cools the exhaust.

If you dont believe me, put a jug of hot water in your freezer......come back in 30 minutes, and tell me if your freezer has become warmer



***ADDED**** I must add that I also had the ability to ask Meteorological Technicians that I worked with and that were at the station I was posted to. This led me to visit them at other stations and learn their trade and also talk candidly to them about the REAL chemtrails and why they are not contrails....


What station is that at, and what is their WMO number/ and station number. If possible could I get into contact with them to discuss their reasoning?



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