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Why the Chemtrail Conspiracy is Unplausible, and Meteorologically Innacurate

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posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 



Nice find, I found a trailer for the movie, have a look at around the 58 second mark.







Compare with the screenshot you provided (I uploaded it for ya)





[edit on 16-3-2009 by Chadwickus]




posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


Do you suppose that the increase in air traffic might have anything to do with it? I mean, I'm no scientist or meteorologist, but it makes sense to me: more planes = more contrails.

This simulation is mind-boggling. Look at the U.S.; it's nearly solid yellow.
Computer Simulation of 24-hour period of air traffic

 


I'm starting to get curious about this whole thing .. I don't understand why people get so worked up about it. There are all sorts of harmful chemicals added to the processed foods and fake "drinks" many people ingest daily, but some of you people are all fired up about stuff that's supposedly being sprayed by planes? I don't get it.

Not being a scientist, I decided to do a little research. Here's some of what I found with a few spare minutes and google:

From “A Field Guide to the Atmosphere“, by Schaefer and Day, 1981:

“Sometimes [contrails] are ephemeral and dissipate as quickly as they form; other times they persist and grow wide enough to cover a substantial portion of the sky with a sheet of cirrostratus“ (Page 137)


Please note that's from 1981!


streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.
Encyclopedia Britannica, Online


Here’s a description from 1970, from a local newspaper, the Arcadia Tribune, April 29, 1970: "Aircraft contrails begin to streak the normally bright Arizona sky at dawn. Through the day, as air traffic peaks, these contrails gradually merge into and almost solid interlaced sheet of cirrus cloud - an artificial cirrus cloud that is frequently as much as 500 meters deep."
Source


From: The News, Frederick, MD, March 7, 1944: “Contrails frequently have a tendency to cause a complete overcast and cause rain. In Idaho I have seen contrails formed in a perfectly clear sky and four hours later a complete overcast resulted“
(same source)

Included at that website are pictures of heavy, persistent contrails from 1969 and 1971.

And, here's a picture like someone was asking for that was taken BEFORE 1967 and the sky is nearly covered with contrails:


The photo is plate 113 of the book Cloud Studies in Colour, by Richard Scorer and Harry Wexler, published in 1967 by Pergamon Press. The photo was taken by Richard Scorer, probably in England.



Sometimes contrails will actually take on the characteristics of a natural cirrus cloud and no longer look like contrails after only a half hour or so. Persistent contrails can exist long after the airplane that made them has left the area. They can last for a few minutes or longer than a day. However, because they form at high altitudes where the winds are usually very strong, they will often move away from the area where they were born. When we look up into the sky, we may see old persistent contrails that formed somewhere else but moved overhead because of the wind.

Source

Here's another interesting page with a bunch of cool pictures:
Contrail Analysis II

There are a lot of "chemtrail" sites and a lot of very excited people who want to blame everything from cancer to flesh-eating bacteria to the common cold on "chemtrails." But all of the scientific, meteorological, and aviation sites I visited (including the FAA and NASA among others) have facts, evidence, and pictures which state that persistent contrails are very normal and have been around at least since WWII. That one guy has statements from WWII pilots about taking different routes home than they flew out in order to avoid the cloud cover caused by their contrails.

In short, what I originally said hasn't changed. There are a lot of REAL conspiracies and health hazards to worry about, like pollution and aviation smog (which is not chemtrails), and toxic chemicals in our food and water, without fussing about so-called "chemtrails."




posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 







So if I saw a car 500 metres away that was red, and got closer and it was still red....because it was a different vantage point, my original observations wouldnt count?


Clear and blatant disinfo and good lesson to all on how to spot it. He makes the reader forget that a camera has a Field of View(FOV) and the closer the observer is the narrower the FOV.

This would be like saying that you would expect the same type of contrail picture if two aircraft flew past an observer, one approx 100FT away from the observer and the other 30MILES. Now the one that is 100FT away will probably not show anything that could be construed as a CHEMTRAIL let alone contrail given that you only have a FOV of maybe 1000FT. The aircraft that is 30MILES away will now show you a CHEMTRAIL that could be 100MILES or more in length because of the FOV. Now this is important because their claim is that 'Chemtrails' must be consistent and a certain length etc...
But this is only the tip of the disinfo iceberg.

Maybe that slipped your mind about FOV in pictures or maybe you have no camera experience.... I thought I'd share my experience and assist you....

As to me transcribing wx... I haven't done that in years and now I just go and watch the guys work and talk about how most other WX men will not talk about this because of fearing their pensions. It really is a sorry state when someone that claims such ability in knowledge is forced to hide their true knowledge and intelligence. These men are being coerced and blackmailed against speaking out.... It is obvious by those that speak out and are then silenced in one way or another. Usually redacting the statement, but that doesn't mean it wasn't true.... Coercion.

Rgds



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


That proves nothing and doesn't answer my question. The news video you provided was about weather modification and no one has denied that.

The definition of "chemtrail" I am talking about which it mentioned in all these threads over and over is a covert government plan to spray toxic chemicals/biotoxins into the air over populated areas to make people sick and kill them, NOT weather modification. Also the video clearly has an expert look at them and say "on camera" that they look like contrails to him. So how does this answer the question?

If its really happening why has there not been any well know lawsuit against the chemtrail producers (military/government) brought forth with credible scientific evidence to the courts?



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


What you must realize though, is that these pistin engine propeller planes use LEADED fuel.
So there is your nucleation site for persistent contrails, just like the barium in the static dissipator additive Stadis 450

If there is no nucleation site, the ice/vapor will dissipate. If there is metal or other material to nucleate around, then you will have persistent aerosol.

please read the following paper:
chemtrails.cc...



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
Clear and blatant disinfo and good lesson to all on how to spot it. He makes the reader forget that a camera has a Field of View(FOV) and the closer the observer is the narrower the FOV.


Disinfo allegations again eh.....is that your only argument? And for the record I was proving your point



This would be like saying that you would expect the same type of contrail picture if two aircraft flew past an observer, one approx 100FT away from the observer and the other 30MILES. Now the one that is 100FT away will probably not show anything that could be construed as a CHEMTRAIL let alone contrail given that you only have a FOV of maybe 1000FT. The aircraft that is 30MILES away will now show you a CHEMTRAIL that could be 100MILES or more in length because of the FOV. Now this is important because their claim is that 'Chemtrails' must be consistent and a certain length etc...


If you flew a contrail, like many aircraft do, you would notice that you would be flying through a cloud, just as you were flying through cirrostratus. You still ahave yet to prove anything, and your argument about disinfo is starting to get redundant...got anything else....maybe something a little more mature?



As to me transcribing wx... I haven't done that in years and now I just go and watch the guys work and talk about how most other WX men will not talk about this because of fearing their pensions.


No weather men talk about chemtrails because they need to know the basic dynamics of the upper atmosphere. And most weather men follow logical scientific data, rather than flawed data proudly supplied by the chemtrailers



It really is a sorry state when someone that claims such ability in knowledge is forced to hide their true knowledge and intelligence. These men are being coerced and blackmailed against speaking out.... It is obvious by those that speak out and are then silenced in one way or another. Usually redacting the statement, but that doesn't mean it wasn't true.... Coercion.


Typical argument again...no evidence, no proof....and you think we sound like broken records.

Also, you're avoding the opening post again arent you




posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Chemtrails Are Over Las Vegas
by Marcus K. Dalton
Tribune Media Group

Or do you need the corporate-controlled media to tell you what's true and what's not?


Is the "Tribune Media Group" what you are referring to?

OW, I suppose you're going to tell us next that the lenticular clouds are not 'undeniable proof' that aliens from another civilization are monitoring our hills and mountains!


Deny Ignorance some more, please.

jw



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by QBSneak000
 





The definition of "chemtrail" I am talking about which it mentioned in all these threads over and over is a covert government plan to spray toxic chemicals/biotoxins into the air over populated areas to make people sick and kill them, NOT weather modification.


Please don't try and change the goal posts too dramatically there QB... A 'Chemtrail' is used for WX modification also and because you don't acknowledge it as being doesn't mean that any of the valid proof provided by the concerned peoples of the world is no longer valid. Clearly another tactic for those that fluff it up.

This video that you apparently agree shows chemtrail spraying is doing just that... spraying "CHEMICALS' to manipulate the WX. What are the chemicals that they are spraying that manipulates the WX? Have you found out? If you haven't done a study of what they are dispensing from the aircraft then how do you know it isn't 'Barium' or one of the other chemicals that have been stated to have been released that you seem to think that they can't be for one of your above HIGHLIGHTED reasons because you don't know why they would do it. Or maybe you know they are not spraying the general population because the government isn't acknowledging it or tells you they are not?

Check out my previous posts that will show you what is being dropped over the heads of people around the world with their WX manipulation. And yes they are using aluminum particulates that when ingested can cause illness and death... I think that would then make part of your HIGHLIGHTED portion above also.


I better watch out.... I noticed I've been getting some stars and on threads like this it usually means your part of the disinfo team..... Well most will see that this is only the case after it was mentioned... You guys are good...

Rgds


Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.

Once again, refrain from referring to fellow members as disinfo agents and government shills because they don't share your personal views.

[edit on 3/16/2009 by maria_stardust]



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by Chadwickus
Nice find, I found a trailer for the movie, have a look at around the 58 second mark.

Yep that is the same scene, and the contrail is visible through the entire thing. Considering that it most likely took hours to shoot that scene with the tanks going through the mud at the cross roads, I think its safe to say its a persistent contrail.

I screen shot that off of the DVD, and I have a lot of old war movies here I can go through to try and find others. Of course that will take time to do. I have noticed one thing so far though, they really don't show much of the sky in many movies, I assume to prevent this from happening. When they do show the sky its usually a long shot of the horizon, making it difficult to tell contrails from clouds.


Originally posted by Chadwickus
(I uploaded it for ya)

Thanks for that. I have not learned how to use that Media Portal thingy yet. TO be honest I am sort of upset I have to re-upload all my images from photobucket.



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
Check out my previous posts that will show you what is being dropped over the heads of people around the world with their WX manipulation. And yes they are using aluminum particulates that when ingested can cause illness and death... I think that would then make part of your HIGHLIGHTED portion above also.


Yeah, and you still havent proven how something sprayed over your head at the height that the contrails are observed, falls through the air so quickly thats its not even affected by the different winds over the thousands of feet.

And I thought you said that chemtrails spread out...now you're saying they fall to the ground?

Your contradicting your own argument



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 





And I thought you said that chemtrails spread out...now you're saying they fall to the ground? Your contradicting your own argument


This question is not serious is it? You really are not serious are you?

They spread out... they fall to the ground.... Like anything that gets dropped in the air, it may not fall directly below where it meets the air above but it will eventually hit the earth.


How long have you been a Meteorlogist? You are a met tech right and not a tv wx guy. You actually study the WX? Can you provide a link to your resume since you seem to be the god when it comes to these guys???

Rgds

As I have been warned for giving my opinion like the rest of you, I will no longer respond to the baiting being done on this thread....

CHEMTRAILS are REAL newcomers. Do not believe the deception....

Love to all



[edit on 16-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.

Asking a fellow member to reveal their identity or proof of their credentials is unwarranted and unjustified. Please refrain from continuing down this venue.

[edit on 3/16/2009 by maria_stardust]



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
As I have been warned for giving my opinion like the rest of you, I will no longer respond to the baiting being done on this thread....
[edit on 16-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]


Oh dear that's rich.

So calling people disinformation agents and shills isn't baiting? Glad to see you got a warn for it.

The hypocrisy in that quote is amazing.



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
They spread out... they fall to the ground.... Like anything that gets dropped in the air, it may not fall directly below where it meets the air above but it will eventually hit the earth.


So its dispresed when it spreads out, and then falls to the ground? And I suppose its easy to calculate where the stuff will fall even though the winds speeds are varying over a huge area right?



How long have you been a Meteorlogist? You are a met tech right and not a tv wx guy. You actually study the WX?


Trained 2004, operational in 2005

Yes I am a met tech, In Australia we do not have meteorologists on TV, and our weather presenters are journalists.



Can you provide a link to your resume since you seem to be the god when it comes to these guys???


Nope but like I said, Im happy for the mods to provide my IP address so you can see where Im typing from, plus my informationn is on my facebook proifle, to which I have added a link to in my ATS profile. Im also happy to email from my work account, and I dont think Im a god when it comes to these things....its just logic

So yeah like all good disinformationists, I publish my personal info online



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by AllTiedTogether
 


Well maybe the chemtrail camp should get its story straight because in all the threads on the subject I have read so far there seems to be 2 distinct definitions of chemtrails by that camp.

1. weather modification (no secret)

2. The government purposely spraying biotoxins and diseases into the atmosphere over populated areas to make people very sick and or kill them.

Two VERY different things IMO.

so which one is it then in your opinion?



I better watch out.... I noticed I've been getting some stars and on threads like this it usually means your part of the disinfo team..... Well most will see that this is only the case after it was mentioned... You guys are good...



And please stop suggesting that anyone who disagrees with yours and the other pro-chemtrail point of view members as dis-info agents. Surely I have shown the respect enough to not start name calling and make baseless accusations. Perhaps you could do the same thank you.



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 11:13 PM
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From this point on...



...anyone who refers to fellow member as a government shill or disinfo agent will be officially warned.

Additionally, anyone who asks a fellow member to reveal their real life identity or provide credentials will be officially warned.

The behavior of a few on this particular thread is appalling.

Stick to the issue at hand, and refrain from attacking fellow members. Personal attacks are not justifiable under any circumstance. Adherence to this simple request is expected.

[edit on 3/16/2009 by maria_stardust]



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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Check out this movie poster from the TV show “The Twilight Zone”:


The poster is from the movie “Battle Hymn” with Rock Hudson. OMG there are grids and X's formed by Contrails on it....


This is the clearer shots of the X-1 Flight from the 1980 movie “The Right Stuff”:



[edit on 3/16/2009 by defcon5]



posted on Mar, 17 2009 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


i kinna travel quite a lot, and my question Ozman is :

why this chemtrail/persistent contrail (to please skeptiks) phenomenon only occurs in NATO countries ? in years in india, in north, south, cold season, dry season, rain season... and although the air traffic is as high, if not more now, than in europe i could never spot even one ! and i'm a sky watcher... in europe, it's all the time any season in area with no dense air traffic whatsoever.

btw for the video in the opening post to make a point we'd need to be sure that :

* they are not pouring chemicals (didn't they do it so much in vietnam ?)

* that hours later those trails were still visible

EDIT: where the hell my avatar have gone ?

[edit on 17-3-2009 by ::.mika.::]



posted on Mar, 17 2009 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by ::.mika.::
 


The Phenomena is prevalent in just about every country, not just NATO:

Australian chemtrails search

New Zealand chemtrails search

Japan chemtrails search

South African chemtrail search



posted on Mar, 17 2009 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by Chadwickus
 


review your representation of the world man, those are tiny countries belonging to western world

not ALL countries

show me the same in tanzania, soudan, mali, bengladesh, india, nepal...



posted on Mar, 17 2009 @ 12:28 AM
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The notion that a vast army of fleet technicians and mechanics that would be required to maintain and service these chemtrail sprayers on the commercial aviation fleet would all have to be in on the conspiracy, without a single whistleblower or leak coming forward speaks for itself.

The food chain and water supply would be the most accessible and direct means to "poison" the population, and wouldn't require such a difficult and implausible method of delivery. How hard would it be to slip an extra ingredient into the hormones, pesticides, chlorine, and fluoride that currently get pumped into our foodstuffs?

Analogy:
Doctor to patient: Sir, I need you to take this dosage, but rather then using a syringe to inject it into your vein or ask you to swallow a pill, I'm going to go into the next room and fart into the ventilation duct. Let me know if you feel anything..."



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