Why the Chemtrail Conspiracy is Unplausible, and Meteorologically Innacurate

This is a thread created to show why the chemtrail conpsiracy is unplausible and the factors which prove that statement.

First of all, the claims about silver iodide as a tool for cloud seeding are in fact correct. However there is a vast difference between them and a contrail.

So silver iodide, when released into the troposphere, is not done at the height at which the chemtrailers insist it is done. It is done at a much lower height, where the tops of cumulus clouds and the mid level clouds (altocumulus and altostratus, sometimes nimbostratus) are found. The idea (the basic version of course) is for water nuclei to cling to the silver iodide molecules, thus increasing water droplet size (or in some cases, stimulating the growth of ice) and increasing the chance of rain.

While cloud seeding has been proven to increase the growth of clouds, and alter the clouds structure (in terms of water state), there is no decent evidence to suggest it increases rainfall. There are also other problems with this such as the fact that clouds have to already be present in the troposphere for this to work. So if you see a clear sky and a contrail, its obviously not going to be a "sinister plot for weather modification".

The second point is that contrails are a well known weather phenomenen, noted by not just meteorologists, but also weather enthusiasts and scientists in other fields.

They occur, when hot engine exhaust, which we all know is a combustion of hydrocarbon, is emitted into a supercooled environment. The resulting product from the burning of a hydrocarbon is carbon dioxide and water (any chemists wish to back that up, fell free to).

At high altitudes, the environment can drop to temperatures far lower than freezing point. When water vapour is introduced into this environment, the water quickly condenses to ice crystals as it passes its saturation or dew point (definition to follow). When a parcel of air reaches dew point, at any height, whether it be at ground level or 35,000 feet in the air, then cloud forms, as the water vapour in the air, condenses to water droplets of ice crystals. This is why contrails, like cirrus clouds, fog etc, are considered in the meteorological world as a cloud type (we actually report it as cirrus as it lies in the high cloud zone, which includes the ice clouds cirrus, cirrocumulus and cirrostratus)

en.wikipedia.org...

Another factor is the varying speed and direction of winds speeds. Just to give an idea of the differentiating data, the balloon sounding below is an example of how releasing something at a high altituded, is not an effective way to modify weather, mind control or do anything to harm or control the population



weather.uwyo.edu...

The 7th column is wind direction in degrees, and the 8th is wind speed in knots. So say you see a contrail above you, where do you think it would land if it (hypothetically) reached the ground? I can tell you for a fact, that it wouldnt be on top of you. It would likely be miles or kilometres away. If it was in the jetstream, where winds can reach 80 plus knots, the it could land hundreds and maybe even thousands of kilometres away. Again, very unrealistic if you want something to reach the ground.

Just to add, Ive never had any of the weather balloons I launched, land back down on top of the area I originally released them from.

And how do contrails spread? Well thats easily explained too, but first of all this quote



Whats interesting about that is the fact that contrails are called cloud cover, and when in high traffic areas, where many aircraft are flying, cloud cover has been recorded in a higher distribution than areas without cloud cover. Again this goes back to contrails being reported as cloud cover by trained weather observers and meteorologists.

The notion that contrails dont spread and chemtrails do is absurd. The fact is that for this to be true, the weather conditions across the entire globe, would have to be exactly the same, at all altitudes, as would the wind speeds and directions through the troposphere. If anyone can disprove this and show me somewhere in the world where there are exactly two different places, hundreds of miles from each other, having the exact same conditions, then by all means do so.

So for a contrail to spread out, we need high winds, which are common at plane crusing altitude, and obviously a saturated environment. We already know that engine exhaust stimulates condensation and assists in a parcel of air reaching its dew point, so combine this with a fairly fast wind speed (fast is about 15 knots plus), and all of a sudden, cloud starts to spread. The introduction of more water vapour into more air parcels, (as the cloud forms), starts to saturate the surrounding environment, thus creating more water or ice nuclei, moving to more areas, and increasing the cloud cover yet again. Its as simple as that.

And to the person that claims that contrails were put into the pictures from world war 2 and earlier, I will add a couple of links that I invite image experts and photoshop experts to analyse, and tell me if they are fake

contrailscience.com...

And also this film from 1944 which is a good example of contrails during world war two, forming close to the camera. Notice how the trails form quite quickly from the engines.....

YouTube Link

Link if video didnt work

www.youtube.com...

Another point I would like to make before I conclude, is the unreliability of the sources used by chemtrail believers. Rense is not a scientist, and carnicoms science is blatantly flawed (its so obvious its funny.

If anyones interested in checking their area for contrails just ask, Im happy to provide and upper air interpret data for them to check against their observations.

Good Info, Oz, thanks for posting this.

It will be nice to have one thread to point people who ask questions about "chemtrails" to.

And I will add also, as I've said before, that susceptible species like birds would be harmed by any toxic "chemtrails" long before we would.

reply to post by Heike

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Thanks Heike, I certainly wont be suspicious until all the birds drop dead out of the sky from an unknown source....might have to invest in a canary, lol

Still no questions about my information?

reply to post by OzWeatherman

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Great info Oz, like always. But I feel that no matter what SOUND SCIENTIFIC evidence we bring forward to show to the chemtrail camp, it will, like all other evidence brought forward, be ignored.

Canaries in the Coal Mines.

I guess they are used because they are more sensitive. . .

But, where are 3/4 to 2/3 of BEES gone ?
www.celsias.com...

We have the answer in the comments, down below !

Blue skies.

reply to post by C-JEAN

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Well apparently...



Seems like development and disease are the major issue here, rather than the deliberate poisoning.

As important as bees are, if it were deliberate poisoning with pesticides, it wouldnt only be the bees dying, it would be almost everything

www.npr.org...

I have seen this happen where I grew up. The place used to be a nice small, mostly agricultural community. Lots of fruit trees, farms and gardens back in the 70's and LOTS of honey bees. Then around the early to mid 80's, Richmond started getting larger and more popular so they started getting rid of the green areas to make way for condo's apartments and shopping malls. Now, there are few places where you don't see concrete and city. What fruit trees are left barely produce any fruit anymore because there are not enough bees to pollenate them.

So in turn, yes, more progress towards development means less area for bees.

There are a few blueberry fields that use a couple of small hives to pollenate their crops still though although I believe they were having problems with parasites killing the bees too.

O.K. I'm not trying to be a smart *snip*, I'm trying to have a conversation about a subject (i said this because people on ATS like to argue over other people's intelligence and question them rather than talk about the subject so that people are able to learn rather than argue, so please let's keep this thread sane and not argue, just inform)

I still don't understand why planes fly in criss cross patterns and their contrails dissapate into clouds and then into a haze / mist that lingers in the sky. I have a picture of a cloud that was formed from these 'trails and instead of being a single colour like most clouds are, this cloud looked like the colors that you see in an oil spill. (i've tried to post it but it doesn't work and I'm not going to frustrate myself so some people can debate if i edited it in photoshop or it was an illusion of lights and shadows).

When i watch the checkard patterns form from the 'trails there are other planes that are flying around but there trails dissapear 1-3 minutes later while the others turn into clouds. My school ran tests during days that the 'trails were sprayed and weren't sprayed. On the days of the spraying more people were sent to the hospitalfor unexplainable illnesses, in some areas you could see reminances of the haze that was left over on the ground on buildings and on cars. We've ran multiple tests finding substances such as barium, silver iodide, the active ingridient in round up, anthrax, and muktiple cells of virusus. (i don't believe that regular contrails would include these materials)

Further into our personal investigation my teacher and I found actual legislation that allows the U.S. government to spray chemtrails over there citizens.


-EXPCITE-
TITLE 50 - WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE
CHAPTER 32 - CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM

-HEAD-
Sec. 1520a. Restrictions on use of human subjects for testing of
chemical or biological agents

-STATUTE-
(a) Prohibited activities
The Secretary of Defense may not conduct (directly or by
contract) -
(1) any test or experiment involving the use of a chemical
agent or biological agent on a civilian population; or
(2) any other testing of a chemical agent or biological agent
on human subjects.
(b) Exceptions
Subject to subsections (c), (d), and (e) of this section, the
prohibition in subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a
test or experiment carried out for any of the following purposes:
(1) Any peaceful purpose that is related to a medical,
therapeutic, pharmaceutical, agricultural, industrial, or
research activity.
(2) Any purpose that is directly related to protection against
toxic chemicals or biological weapons and agents.
(3) Any law enforcement purpose, including any purpose related
to riot control.
(c) Informed consent required
The Secretary of Defense may conduct a test or experiment
described in subsection (b) of this section only if informed
consent to the testing was obtained from each human subject in
advance of the testing on that subject.
(d) Prior notice to Congress
Not later than 30 days after the date of final approval within
the Department of Defense of plans for any experiment or study to
be conducted by the Department of Defense (whether directly or
under contract) involving the use of human subjects for the testing
of a chemical agent or a biological agent, the Secretary of Defense
shall submit to the Committee on Armed Services of the Senate and
the Committee on Armed Services of the House of Representatives a
report setting forth a full accounting of those plans, and the
experiment or study may then be conducted only after the end of the
30-day period beginning on the date such report is received by
those committees.
Link To Source of: U,S. Code 50, Chapter 32

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[edit on 3/16/2009 by maria_stardust]

Good call



Im not the best person to ask this as I only deal with aviation indirectly, but from what Ive heard from pilots and aircraft engineers here, criss cross patterns are caused when planes cross through another planes flight path. This is quite common due to the large masses of traffic in our skies these days.

On the second part of your statement, the contrails spread (not dissipate) into a layer of cloud known as cirrostratus or a thick mass of ordinary cirrus

en.wikipedia.org...



Dont worry, I know you didnt edit it because its a known meteorological phenomena called iridesence. Its caused by ice crystals or water droplets diffracting sunlight, giving the clouds a rainbow like appearance

www.atoptics.co.uk...



Yep, that would be due to the varying altitudes of the airplanes. Pilots will tell you that there needs to be a vertical distance of 1000 feet between air traffic in the area, so naturally, some planes will be at a higher altitude then others, even if they dont appear to be from the ground. So, obviously the planes that are higher (or in the moister air), will have contrails that linger, while others will have contrails that dissipate quikcly



Unlikely, but if you have some sources for this please do post them, and I will check them against the upper air observations for that day



If you found anthrax, I would hope you were wearing a respirator or had an anthrax shot, otherwise you would have some serious health issues. Also, if anthrax had been released from an airplane, I doubt it would have survied the extremely cold temperatures at high altitude



Actually, I think that legislation prohibited the testing of chemicals on citizens. It did say that at the start of the document

Double Post

[edit on 16/3/2009 by OzWeatherman]

elfulanozutan0 go have yourself a look at and Enroute Chart, generally available online. These depict the routes that aircraft must fly within controlled airspace when flying under the instrument flight rules (this will always encompass airliners, large charter, corporate, some military and private flights) I understand that in the united states there are alot of designated routes pilots must fly therefore the probability of these routes forming a criss cross pattern is extremely high.

the same applies around the world, the sevirity of the pattern varies with the ammount of controlled airspace. EG, the US is along the lines of 90% controlled in some form where australia it is a lesser ammount under 11000ft.

This shows the typical flightpath patterns on one ntypical day over the UK. It's inevitable that cross cross patterns develop because there are more than 2 airports to which aircraft fly.

www.bbc.co.uk...




This explains all that

www.epa.gov...



Such colours occur in normal clouds all the time. For example sundogs



and irridesence

cloudappreciationsociety.org...

(which does look 'oily')

Explainations for how and why they occur (and they've been observed since Classical times) here:

en.wikipedia.org...

cimss.ssec.wisc.edu...

And a pretty spectacular shot of irridescence, with explanation, here:

www.atoptics.co.uk...

reply to post by OzWeatherman

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"Actually, I think that legislation prohibited the testing of chemicals on citizens. It did say that at the start of the document"

I think there is a National Security Exemption for almost any law. This, in effect, means there is no law. Also, the National Security Exemption can be used after the event.

I grew up on some really huge military air bases and don't remember any "chemtrails".

reply to post by OzWeatherman

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What is your point of being on a conspiracy site??

To lead the people to their death. You are guilty.


en.wikipedia.org...

There you have it. It doesn't even exist, according to FEDERAL AGENCIES and SCIENTISTS.

What was that saying about denial. Oh yeah, they are lying.

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[edit on 3/16/2009 by maria_stardust]

Perhaps he's interested in conspiracies? As far as I'm aware ATS wasn't set-up for any conspiracy going. The byline 'deny ignorance' puts paid to that, surely?



I never knew it was possible to snort houmous. Whilst reading that sentence a little bit of my salad and houmous pitta almost went up my nose.



If I accuse you of being a child rapist and a murderer and you deny it does that make you a liar or are you merely pointing out, despite my protestations, that you aren't a child rapist and a murderer? Sometimes denial is justified and warranted.

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[edit on 3/16/2009 by maria_stardust]

reply to post by Merriman Weir

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Well, according to you, there are no conspiracies.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt.
You can go back to choking on your food now.

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[edit on 3/16/2009 by maria_stardust]

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Actually, that wasn't the point of that thread at all. Can you point to me where I said there were no conspiracies (in the sense that they're not real) or is that a strawman?

My point was that is there a need or psychological drive to seek conspiracies, to the extent that practically everything is now covered by one conspiracy or other. There's nothing in any of that says there's no conspiracies at all.

Do you habitually read things into something when there's no reason to?

You folks are realy a little club of sheeple ..

So, all this info is Credible, and ALL chemtrail info is NOT credible.
omg, you see how this is, you are just programmed to say what you say, serious, you are saying the same thing over and over, we Chemers come with new info , you try to debunk with old same unchenged info, Im telling you , it dosnt cut it any more ....

You go up there and prove to me it is just water vapour , or else ZipIt !


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[edit on 3/16/2009 by maria_stardust]

Uh huh.....from this side of the aisle, where we actually have blood delivering oxygen to our brains, the same sentiment can be applied to those that rabidly deny the science and rationality of what OzWeatherman provides.