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List of the people who need to be punished for causing meltdown

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posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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I couldnt find a list of the people who are MOST responsible for causing the global meltdown. So I am hoping that we can make an intelligent and respectable list.

As much as I may agree with those who want to put large numbers of congressional members on the list I say that is not plausible or even productive. Lets try and keep it to the most damaging members.

Final note- The purpose of this list is to provide a means to bring confidence and trust back to the markets. I believe that the real reason people are still nervous is that the criminals are still running free and have not been punished. If we punish (legally) those that caused the problem I truly do believe that it will be a huge step towards getting people both domestic and internationally to gain trust again in the US as the beacon and hub for global finance.


So let me start with the people that anderson cooper listed on his site. (its easy and a good start)

Joe Cassano - of AIG President of the Financial products division that brought AIG to calamity.

Franklin Raines - CEO of Fannie Mae during the manifestation of the meltdown.

James Cayne - CEO of Bear Sterns during the runup to the collapse.

Angelo Mozzilo - CEO of Country Wide mortgage during the subprime scandals

Richard Fuld - CEO of Lehman Brothers during the runup of the collapse


Well here is a begining of the list and again please try and refrain from naming current congress members or politicians, unless they were so instrumental in the meltdown that no reasonable person can deny.

I will add more myself as time goes on.




posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 07:20 PM
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You should add yourself to last list if you are going to point fingers.

We watched them do this to us, we spent the money they gave, took out the huge loans, bough all the BS items.

Were not better than they are for allowing them to dig this hole and throw ourselves in it.

There is no need to point the finger at anybody but humanity as a whole.

~Keeper



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Please its that kind of preposterous thinking that would allow the real criminals to get away with cash on top.

You may have a resentment towards the american way of life and capitalism but its through these things that allowed the US to flourish into the greatest and most powerful nation on earth.

Yes we would be just as guilty for letting them get away with it, but that is the point of the list to do something about it. First though we need to know exactly who is responsible.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Humanity as a whole didn't make millions of dollars in the course of ruining millions of livelihoods, and didn't commit any fraud to that end. It turns out, though it is a bit simplistic, that there really are "bad guys" out there, and it is generally agreed that the rest of us do have the right to punish them within the bounds of our criminal justice system. It's not warm and fuzzy, but it holds water.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by The Vagabond
 


I agree that some people need to be held accountable, but simply placing blame and demanding retribution is not the way to go about things either.

We need to drastically change our mentality when it comes to Capitalism and politics in order to move forward and be a productive nation in the 21st century.

That or give the keys to China and India and allow them to set all precendends for the world. IMO I liked the US being the "example" for the world if you will.

It played a good part and did some good things for this world, and I am sure that will continue after we rid the place of these criminals and stop consuming like there is enough to go around.

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh in my above post, you do make a good point.

~Keeper



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 07:54 PM
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Your point is well taken, but we should not consider the courts to merely be a mechanism of retribution, but rather an instrument for the more detailed kind of reform that you are talking about.

What is needed from the legislative branch for the future will become more clear if the courts undertake deep examination of all that has transpired in this situation. The courts can shed additional light on the gaps between justice and law which recent developments have presented. This can inform us in our further attempts to reform our system.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 08:08 PM
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Take a look at the HUGE number of mortgage brokers in the U.S. These guys received a percentage of every loan that they pushed out the door. A large number of these guys got RICH off of pumping the bubble bigger and bigger. They could care less about anything accept the commission they received, the type of new car they could afford, a new boat, etc. etc.

Well if we really want something to blame maybe we should look at the human desire of greed. To quote the great Gordon Gekko "Greed is good."

I think this sums up humanity in general. Greed is the drive that pushes us to advance as a species. Capitalism is basically....greed. Welcome to the human species. There is a REASON that the words "In God We Trust" is on every piece of currency we print. Bow down and pray to get rich or dye trying.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by The Vagabond
 


I do have to agree with that aspect, the courts do need to take a good long look at what they've been given and adjust for the times.

Too long have things gone unregulated and we've placed our trust and money into far more hands that we should have.

Time to change folks, and real change, not campaign hype.

~Keeper



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
Take a look at the HUGE number of mortgage brokers in the U.S. These guys received a percentage of every loan that they pushed out the door. A large number of these guys got RICH off of pumping the bubble bigger and bigger. They could care less about anything accept the commission they received, the type of new car they could afford, a new boat, etc. etc.

Well if we really want something to blame maybe we should look at the human desire of greed. To quote the great Gordon Gekko "Greed is good."

I think this sums up humanity in general. Greed is the drive that pushes us to advance as a species. Capitalism is basically....greed. Welcome to the human species. There is a REASON that the words "In God We Trust" is on every piece of currency we print. Bow down and pray to get rich or dye trying.


Yes you are correct having lived in both NYC and LA during the bubble, I can personally say that I know several brokers who with malicious disregard and ethics pushed cds's and cdo's and in LA sold mortgages with fraudulently placed information on the applications.

Lets also not forget the rating agencies like standard and poors and moodys who gave aaa ratings to these instruments that are ultimately what is keeping us down now.

Greed is good but greed with malicious ethics needs to be punished to set an example of.

This is my thinking behind this list and concept. If we punish these individuals to the maximum letter of the law this will serve as a warning and counter to those who would do the same. In addition to giving people the peace of mind that those that caused this misery got what they deserve thus bringing trust and faith back into the system.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 08:41 PM
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Desolate Cancer GREAT IDEA for a thread.

now let's put some NAMES together......i am really psyched about this idea

lets look at the cheerleadrs, proponents, enablers of DEREGULATION of the finacial system....


Henry Hank Paulson (fought for more leverage in the banking system

Robert Rubin (fought to make derivative's market's unregulated)

Senator Phil Gramm...... pimp of deregulation as well as lower standard's for mortgage lending

some democratic party members who put the leverage on fannie and freddie to Lower the standards for writing mortgage loans


losangeles.injuryboard.com...

well said and not some half truth's conjured up by some bank apologist , which are prevelant in Main stream Media

[edit on 15-3-2009 by cpdaman]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 10:45 PM
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Unfortunately you can't convict politicians for supporting or passing legislation the turns out to have negative effects. Unless you can demonstrate wilfull cause, and then you might be in the area of conspiracy. Conspiracy on this scale is very tough to prove. I doubtr if the Supreme Court would buy into it. And hey, aren't they the ones who decided George Bush won the 2000 election?

Maybe under Sharia Law it's easier. A bunch of Imams could listen to the cases and could decide to remove certain portions of the anatomy of those found guilty.

What seems to be sought is more in the line of a Revolution, French style.
Be ready for the Reign of Terror. Does Michelle Obama get guillotined?


Mike F



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by mmiichael


Unfortunately you can't convict politicians for supporting or passing legislation the turns out to have negative effects. Unless you can demonstrate wilfull cause, and then you might be in the area of conspiracy. Conspiracy on this scale is very tough to prove. I doubtr if the Supreme Court would buy into it. And hey, aren't they the ones who decided George Bush won the 2000 election?

Maybe under Sharia Law it's easier. A bunch of Imams could listen to the cases and could decide to remove certain portions of the anatomy of those found guilty.

What seems to be sought is more in the line of a Revolution, French style.
Be ready for the Reign of Terror. Does Michelle Obama get guillotined?


Mike F





Yes I agree with you 100% that is why i specifically made mention to not bother/waste time talking about politicians in office still unless there is an egregious example.

Lets first focus on the private businessmen and others who through fraud and deceit caused the losses on orders of hundreds of millions and even billions. Not the measly thousands that some random character perpetrated.

What is French style revolution? is this something that you think is imminent?



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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Senator Phil Gramm - can't stress enough how heavily he contributed to the meltdown. Not only for pushing Deregulation but for authoring the "Enron loophole", something his wife also played a role in.

FAS 157 Market to Market Analysis
FDR revoked it during the Great Depression as the cause of a large number of banks to fail, it was brought back in 2007, just in time to contribute to the meltdown. Whoever brought it back to life really has a bad sense of timing.



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by Desolate Cancer

I agree with you 100% that is why i specifically made mention to not bother/waste time talking about politicians in office still unless there is an egregious example.

Lets first focus on the private businessmen and others who through fraud and deceit caused the losses on orders of hundreds of millions and even billions. Not the measly thousands that some random character perpetrated.

What is French style revolution? is this something that you think is imminent?




Like it or not, every country has laws and a legal system. In the US it can take hundreds of thousands of dollars out of pocket, in the hope that after all appeals are exhausted, you'll get a conviction, maybe restitutions - if they have the all their money conveniently sitting in a personal bank account, and maybe your costs.

The courts won't hear the case unless you provide evidence and can show clear intent to deceive and defraud.

Good luck in raising the hundreds of millions it will take to get the ball rolling on the first couple hundred people you want to see brought to justice - around 2015.

Unless you want to go for the fast tracking route.

I was referring to the French Revolution, 1789. They had public trial of aristocrats, even the King and Marie Antoinette.

A lot of innocent people were also summarily executed like servants, coachmen, local shop owners, etc.

Are you sure there aren't people in your neighbourhood who think you have more money than you deserve?

Viva la Revolucion!


Mike F



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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Bring it! Maybe that's what we need, a guillotine in Times Square.
At least the French got to have a bloody revolution before turning into a pacifist socialist nation. We turn into one without any bloodletting. Denied!




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