The Space Opera Working Thread

Originally posted by wildtimes

As for the character development of the individuals -- I can only say that is to be expected. If the characters all stay the same forever they're too flat. I've wondered why there isn't more "processing" happening...for example, I was glad to see neno cry. I was glad to see Dag have a crisis of infatuation, to see Adam have some doubts. Frustration is part of good character writing, in my opinion...I focus on it.

How 'bout that? neno ISN'T made of stone - don't tell, though! You'll wreck his rep!

As far as the character/story development, I can only give my own opinions. I believe development is the important part. Both character growth and story line progress. In my mind, any good story follows the characters and their responses, growth, and meeting challenges. All stories involve conflict of some sort. That is what MAKES the story happen. The specific genre is just a vehicle - a bed to lay the story in. Whether a western, a mystery, sci-fi, romance, or whatever genre you have, the story itself is developed by conflict and response leading to resolution. All else is only a framework to support the story and the characters. Gilgamesh of the Sumerians... Conan of Robert E. Howard... Louis L'Amour's Sacketts... Sam Spade... all these characters seem to be disparate, and are to a degree because of their responses - but NOT because of the genre they were written into! The genre and it's accoutrements are just vehicles, frameworks. The story is in the development, conflict, and resolution. Whether the hero ride a horse, a chariot, a Lamborghini or a laser tank, the character is STILL the character.

I have only two questions:

Is character growth and development not a focus on this project?

And what happened to the Penelope?

See above for my take on character development, and the Penelope has gone off into the black on her own adventures, blissfully unaware that the Earth was ever exploded by the Buzzards, because in their reference frame it wasn't. It never happened. Early in the Opera a story arc was developing that has Penelope responding to a war brewing between the UEF and the Alpha Centaurians, so I personally presume that is where she is.

BIAD's dream sequences are fascinating - they are developing the character by expounding on his thoughts vis a vis philosophy and "diety", and I can see a way to merge them in with neno's thoughts on those matters as well. The development of that, as conflict is presented and resolved, forcing character growth, seems the way to go to me.

reply to post by nenothtu
Originally posted by silo13
S- Who is/are our Nemesis now the Dark Lord is neutralized (or is he)?
N- It appears currently to be "Cormorant" or "Carmarthien" or "Cocobolo" or whatever that cat's name is!

* Ok great - so that’s gonna be the guy. I guess what I was asking, and worded badly, is the Dark Lord still ‘out there’ and as big a bad dude as he once was - or - is this new ‘dude’ bigger and badder than the Dark Lord ever had a chance of being? I guess time will tell!

S- What happened to the Ophi? (I don’t think we’ve seen the last of them yet). Personally? I think they want the Yydryl).
N- The "Big Rip" never happened, so they never ventured forth from the Ophiuchi Consortium in search of new lands and resources. they are still in the Consortium, minding their own business and killing off interlopers into THEIR turf.

*Ok, so they’re still ‘out there’ and we may or may not come into contact with them. Obviously I’m still having a bit of a mind cramp over the big rip. Let’s just pretend I never asked.

S- What happened to Bransom? Is she/Federation still after Adam and Silo? I'm not sure how this works in with the timeline changes - dimensional changes.
N- Bransom is either dead, or a minor file clerk at the UEF HQ. Since Silo and Dag were created in a Regalian lab, the UEF probably hasn't got any reason to pursue them any more. I'm not sure why Bransom was after them to begin with, but since she has been neutralized, and that entire episode "never happened", she ought not to be a problem for them now, either. They seem to be free and clear.... unless the Regalians want them back!

*Gotcha. So she’d either dead or of no consequence. The reasons why Bransom was after her was only because Silo escaped LAB and became a security risk - it was never explained why.

S- Where is CindyMars. Is she evil? Or, does she have a twin (as we’re seeing in Neno)? We know she tried to kill Neno, or rather, to ‘get’ Neno.
N- She went POOF! and was gone. I presume she's off a-pirating with Cadbury on Past Earth in The Caribbean of the 1600's.

*Ok, she moved on from there but again I didn’t ask the question correctly. I guess the point of the question is this.
Neno is going back to where he will have his ‘place to go when there’s no place else to go’. That seems to be the thread of where the story lime is going. What I’m asking is - I hope we can tie in CindyMars with this as she obviously wanted ‘something’ from Neno - maybe now we know what it is!

S- Cadbury, we know, stored 'something' aboard the Yydryl. CindyMars was told as much when she visited him. He was after her ability to make the teleportation tabs/crystals and she'd never give them up. This isn't so much a question as back info to keep in mind. I think we're about to see a comeback of the Cadbury.
N- I don't think it would be wise to bring Cadbury himself back unless Cadbury was coming back to write for him.

*Good to know. I was under the impression we could write for those who left without dying. I’ll either U2U him to find out or...well...I’m not sure. Thanks for the heads-up.

S- Why would she want Neno?
N- Well, 'cause he's HOT, of course! Seriously, though... maybe she is in cahoots with Columbo?

*Could be that or could be something to do with your planet. Maybe the mining operation there produces the material she needs to make those teleport tab/crystals of hers? That’s she only has one left of by the way. (Maybe we’ll encounter here there on the planet)???

S- Is BIAD’s ‘past’ going to come out more in the storyline?
N- I hope so. Especially with his mention of trying to find his father's killers, it would make for a good story arc all by itself.

*I agree, I hope we see/hear more of it as we go.

S- They Yydryl is moving in the area at becoming really controlling where she NEVER has been before. WHY? IS this a good thing? (I don’t think it is at all). We need to come to some group agreement on this one way or another.
N-I had noticed that. You may have noticed that neno has moved back into the Starwolf - it's an escape hatch, you know. The Penelope has fallen by the wayside, and is presumable off on her own adventures now. Neno is the last surviving U-man writer from the Penelope, and he has been discharged from the UEF service now. If Yydryl goes rogue, it might get bad.

*Could you explain what you mean about ‘it might be bad’? I don’t see her ever going ‘rogue’ (she already is after escaping the Federation and their plans to exterminate her). We just have to keep her calm. She’s never been an controlling witch and there’s no reason for her to be now other than her little internal tiff’s with her intimates. Point being?

S- All the ‘droids’ on Ship are rejects. We know this from past storyline. They came to Ship on their own or got dumped on her by the Federation - before Ship was basically kicked out of the Federation and went on her own way before ‘they’ destroyed her. These droids have no reason to be anything but thankful to Ship. Why does it seem they’re getting a bit....ungrateful...or wanting more? Or is that their ‘U-Man’ side coming out?
N- First, Yydryl was a product of the Regalian Federation of the Orion Empire. we need to stay clear on which Federation we are referring to regarding the Yydryl.

*Will do! I use ‘Federation’ too freely in my thoughts without being more explicit.

N- The UEF Federation has no claim on her at all. As far as their humanity is concerned, I've not a clue why that would be.

*Good. Maybe we’ll find out or maybe it will be a non issue!

THANK YOU!

reply to post by nenothtu

As far as the character/story development, I can only give my own opinions. I believe development is the important part. Both character growth and story line progress. In my mind, any good story follows the characters and their responses, growth, and meeting challenges. All stories involve conflict of some sort. That is what MAKES the story happen. The specific genre is just a vehicle - a bed to lay the story in. Whether a western, a mystery, sci-fi, romance, or whatever genre you have, the story itself is developed by conflict and response leading to resolution. All else is only a framework to support the story and the characters. Gilgamesh of the Sumerians... Conan of Robert E. Howard... Louis L'Amour's Sacketts... Sam Spade... all these characters seem to be disparate, and are to a degree because of their responses - but NOT because of the genre they were written into! The genre and it's accoutrements are just vehicles, frameworks. The story is in the development, conflict, and resolution. Whether the hero ride a horse, a chariot, a Lamborghini or a laser tank, the character is STILL the character.

Precisely my pov as well...
thanks for commenting!!

reply to post by silo13

Oh - and you do have the 'background' - if you wish to. It's right there in the story line. Click page 1 and go from there.

That is true....although it will take me a while, just as it did to get caught up enough to write for Dag and Adam. I've started on page one, I've compiled and looked at other characters and read bits and pieces of the Penelope.

I'm just hoping you all can point me to pertinent posts or give a brief synopsis on points I don't know...like CyndyMars...I know she was a writer, I've gleaned a bit about her from her "memory" in the current cast...

BIAD has graciously approved me diddling with Mucklebones and Tibbs; Gert seems to be handed off as well...Brittle was mine to begin with...
so....cool!
Time to move forward. I've been really stuck.
I think about it for hours a day...and had a couple of notes jotted and starts of ideas, but nothing I'm crazy about yet.

I'm glad there is discussion going on again!

In my mind, any good story follows the characters and their responses, growth, and meeting challenges.

Of course - as long as the character remains in character while growing.

peace

Originally posted by silo13

In my mind, any good story follows the characters and their responses, growth, and meeting challenges.

Of course - as long as the character remains in character while growing.

peace

But... everyone occasionally behaves in a manner that is "out of character." That's often how we know something is up with them...when their behavior seems to shift from their "usual", to one that makes others look at one another and say, "What's up with him? That was very out of character for him!"

Sometimes the character doesn't see the change in themselves, but others do see it, and can say, "I've notice you seem edgy or grumpy lately," (like I can tell when my husband is edgy or grumpy...or my mom when she's projecting inner frustration because her sister won't let her help with the grandkids, and it comes out as snippy).....and that gives us a jumping off place for communication, and a chance for the character/person to address their issues with outside pov.

I was thinking of having Dag discover she's an empath...but have decided against it. She'll have other "powers" less subjective and more helpful, like...thievery, or hacking, or conning bad guys..... .... or closing suspects, getting them to confess...he he...

obviously I watch shows like Leverage and the Closer and Cold Case....

Originally posted by silo13
* Ok great - so that’s gonna be the guy. I guess what I was asking, and worded badly, is the Dark Lord still ‘out there’ and as big a bad dude as he once was - or - is this new ‘dude’ bigger and badder than the Dark Lord ever had a chance of being? I guess time will tell!

I don't know that he's worse in the grand scheme of things, but he seems to be more focused. Where the Dark Lord had huge aspirations - destroying THIS entire Universe, Carborundum seems more focused on the Crew. The Dark Lord did not see the Misfit Brigade coming at him out of left field, and so failed to adequately plan for that. In contrast, Carmax is AIMING for the Misfit Brigade.

*Ok, so they’re still ‘out there’ and we may or may not come into contact with them. Obviously I’m still having a bit of a mind cramp over the big rip. Let’s just pretend I never asked.

The black Rock Archipelago (created by Badger) seems to be a colonial settlement somewhere on the cusp of Opi space, so there are the possibilities of run-ins with them in that area, as each side disagrees over "ownership" of those colony worlds. In the old, pre-Rip repair timeline, Blackrock seems to have been where the Opis and the Federation first encountered each other in battle 10 or 12 years ago, as the Opis spread outward to get away from the Big Rip. Badger made his bones there, apparently, and one of the Black Rocks was where neno and Wilson's Rogue Rangers saw action in a rescue mission just before his original marooning on Khalamzadar. They were there to rescue some Federation official's daughter, and were shipwrecked on the way back, after they had delivered her.

*Gotcha. So she’d either dead or of no consequence. The reasons why Bransom was after her was only because Silo escaped LAB and became a security risk - it was never explained why.

OR Bransom may have been after "alien tech", for her own enrichment and aggrandizement. Adam may have come into that because of his position as a doctor at LAB - perhaps Bransom thought he had some of the keys to that tech that created Silo and Dag.

Neno is going back to where he will have his ‘place to go when there’s no place else to go’. That seems to be the thread of where the story lime is going. What I’m asking is - I hope we can tie in CindyMars with this as she obviously wanted ‘something’ from Neno - maybe now we know what it is!

Maybe it's something hidden at the zero mark zero point that Yydryl has chosen - I have no idea, but we'll see how it grows!

*Good to know. I was under the impression we could write for those who left without dying. I’ll either U2U him to find out or...well...I’m not sure. Thanks for the heads-up.

That would be the best course of action, i think. I don't have problems with folks writing for neno, but he departed during the time when that was not the case.

*Could be that or could be something to do with your planet. Maybe the mining operation there produces the material she needs to make those teleport tab/crystals of hers? That’s she only has one left of by the way. (Maybe we’ll encounter here there on the planet)???

That's a possibility, but keep in mind that there IS no mining operation there currently - the planet is abandoned for some unknown reason, the only evidence of the former inhabitants are the ruins of ancient cities, possibly thousands of years old. It may - or may not - be "mineral rich", but there is currently no operation ongoing to mine those minerals. Virgin territory. Fair game. It could be that one of those compnents needed is rather rare, and can be found there.

I've been batting ideas around in my head for what might be found in the ruins, and trying to find "ruins" that I can drop into the jungles for visualizations (along the lines of the Mayan cities that crop up every now and then in the Yucatan jungles), but the reason Cim was interested may be more earthy - or "khalamzadar-y", and to be found in the minerals themselves, rahter than the ruins.

*Could you explain what you mean about ‘it might be bad’? I don’t see her ever going ‘rogue’ (she already is after escaping the Federation and their plans to exterminate her). We just have to keep her calm. She’s never been an controlling witch and there’s no reason for her to be now other than her little internal tiff’s with her intimates. Point being?

I'd hate for Corot - or Cim, if she's in cahoots with him - to take over Yydryl, and force a battle there. Being as how we're all pretty much misfits on the run from the authorities, yydryl included, that would seem to make us ALL natural allies, Yydryl included. neno don't miss much, though, even if he doesn't openly comment on it. if Yydryl is acting off her feed, then that's reason enough for him to hedge his bets with an escape hatch - the Starwolf. There is yet another surprise in the exercise of mobility that awaits on the surface of the planet, hidden in the ruins of one of those cities, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Let's just say tht when he gained claim to the planet, free and clear, he gained claim to all the alien tech to be found in those ruins as well.

*Will do! I use ‘Federation’ too freely in my thoughts without being more explicit.

No problem! I've always thought of Yydryl as "Regalian" just to keep it all straight in my mind. She is, i suppose, by rights of creation, but not by registry any more, since she's "gone rogue" from the Orion Alliance.

reply to post by wildtimes


The UEF Background Thread has some "canonical" information from the perspective of the UEF. There are some characterizations of UEF personnel, some background in Galactography and the structures of the various political units (with some maps for orientation), and mf_luder has written a short (5 pages or so) synopsis of the UEF history that can be downloaded from that page as a PDF file, as well as a synopsis of the now missing Penelope, with information on her (also as a PDF download).

I think there was a "Yydryl Canon" thread at one time, too, but I haven't got the link to it if there was - maybe Silo has it.

Originally posted by silo13

In my mind, any good story follows the characters and their responses, growth, and meeting challenges.

Of course - as long as the character remains in character while growing.

peace

How they respond would be part of what makes their character. For example, I thought holding a gun to Adam's head while he worked on Sslar might have been a bit extreme even for neno, but as it turned out that WAS in character, and there WAS a reason for it - I just hadn't found it at the time, and had to work it over in my mind to find that aspect of his character.

That went in to his character development, and I never saw it coming!

Originally posted by wildtimes


obviously I watch shows like Leverage and the Closer and Cold Case....

I love "The Closer" - that woman has balls that would choke a cannon to death!

reply to post by nenothtu

... It appears currently to be "Cormorant" or "Carmarthien" or "Cocobolo" or whatever that cat's name is

reply to post by nenothtu

OR Bransom may have been after "alien tech", for her own enrichment and aggrandizement.

Bare breasted amazon warrioress-es (sp?) charging in to battle comes to mind and when that fury's added to a fleet of test tube chickies with the ability to morph into anything they wanted? Yeah, they would constitute quite a force to recon with, lol. Maybe that's what Bransom was up to after all!

peace

reply to post by nenothtu

I love "The Closer" - that woman has balls that would choke a cannon to death!

Doesn't she though??? She's awesome. The writing on that show is superb...each team member has their own personality...ups and downs...even her relationships with Fritz, with Pope, with Commander Taylor and Captain Raider, her parents, her niece, Lts Flynn and Provenza and David...they are all unique and wonderful.

I'm watching reruns of last season (or a recent season, at least) now...and the tension is THICK now that Pope and she are both applied for Chief of Police, and they've moved into this new HQ that she hates and he wants to push....great stuff. LOTS of "out of character" weirdness....and everyone looking at each other like "what the hell?"....

Have you hooked up with Leverage yet? Same bat-network, same bat-writing...you are Elliott Spencer....check it out!!
TNT...1pm is Leverage, 2pm is The Closer....Central tiime.
"Check your local listings"....

reply to post by silo13

Is BIAD’s ‘past’ going to come out more in the storyline? N- I hope so.
Especially with his mention of trying to find his father's killers,
it would make for a good story arc all by itself.

I think that as BIAD travels along with his companions, more-and-more
will come out about his Father's/Creator's demise and how he feels about
it.
This Carimono-guy (I still can't help myself from chortling at Neno's quote
above!)... this guy is looking to 'assume' Nenothtu's place and the best place
to start is to look for weaknesses.
True, our gunslinging-pal is not only immortal -but also difficult to poke with
a stick. That means this chap will look to make Neno doubt, make him think
that if his friends around him forwn at his path, then he may be swayed towards
another point on the compass.
Then the Man From The End Of Time can work on becoming 'de-big-guy'

It should make good reading -to say the least!

reply to post by nenothtu

The UEF Background Thread has some "canonical" information from the perspective of the UEF. There are some characterizations of UEF personnel, some background in Galactography and the structures of the various political units (with some maps for orientation), and mf_luder has written a short (5 pages or so) synopsis of the UEF history that can be downloaded from that page as a PDF file, as well as a synopsis of the now missing Penelope, with information on her (also as a PDF download).

FABULOUS!!! Thanks so much!!!
Do you, then, Penelope former crewman, have any objections to her being revitalized or drawn into the story once again with new crew except for your so------
GASP....isn't he the guy that has to do with the Tree Alliena and the wolves??

BIAD!???

reply to post by A boy in a dress

True, our gunslinging-pal is not only immortal -but also difficult to poke with
a stick.

And Dangerous to poke with a stick!!

reply to post by A boy in a dress

That means this chap will look to make Neno doubt, make him think
that if his friends

The one thing Neno can't fight with a gun or fist.

Diabolical. Just diabolical.

Originally posted by A boy in a dress
reply to post by nenothtu

 

... It appears currently to be "Cormorant" or "Carmarthien" or "Cocobolo" or whatever that cat's name is

I'm toying with the notion of neno not EVER getting the guy's name right (intentional or not, it's sure to get his goat, which is the whole point), and so am seeing how many variations I can come up with...

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by nenothtu

 

OR Bransom may have been after "alien tech", for her own enrichment and aggrandizement.

Bare breasted amazon warrioress-es (sp?) charging in to battle comes to mind and when that fury's added to a fleet of test tube chickies with the ability to morph into anything they wanted? Yeah, they would constitute quite a force to recon with, lol. Maybe that's what Bransom was up to after all!

peace

Oh no! You gave neno nightmares! He's cowering in the corner, curled up into a fetal ball, whimpering!

reply to post by silo13

... Bare breasted amazon warrioress-es

It's obligatory for all red-blooded males to reply to this one
and BIAD being BIAD, he'll not refrain!

The image that you've conjoured up, is how the Man/Girl sees you and
Wildtimes, clacking away on the keyboard with both... oh no, he's rubbing
his thighs with the palms of his hands again.... I gotta go!