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The Space Opera Working Thread

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posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 


You're right Masqua, it does say that at the top of the page.

But it also says this: The Space Opera Working Thread

And the Space Opera is a writing collaboration. Banter between writers is implied in a collab, that's how they work.

As far as I'm concerned, banter between writers IS on topic, as the topic is The Space Opera, which is a writer's collaboration. That's where the problems are coming from.

You can't collaborate without banter. Fact of life.

I'll reiterate:


My point is, if you don't want the space opera to exist, SAY SO. ATS is not my site and I realize that the mods get the final say on what goes, but banter is irrevocably linked to a collaboration, and if that's a problem, shut it down.


This project was your idea Masqua, and it was a good one. But I guarantee you that you will kill it if this kind of thing continues.

And yes, I am aware that one small snippet about the opera in each post would keep the mods off our back. That's the part that bugs me. You see, if that's the case, then all of our problems here are coming from a technicality.

For example, an off topic post could be made on topic by including:

"Oh, by the way, I will be getting my next post up tomorrow."

Why in the name of god would anyone make such a big deal about such a simple issue? I mean two mod warnings one after the other?

I'm losing a lot of respect for ATS.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by SeekerOfAUTMN]




posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by silo13
 


I believe the point of contention regarding off-topic posts was this page.

I've always said that anyone who wants to opt out certainly has that choice and my only response will be a heartfelt 'Thank You'.

The same for everyone, silo... thank you for everything you've done in the Opera.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by SeekerOfAUTMN
 



Mixing banter with on-topic posts is hunky dory.

Just off-topic posts are not and never will be on a Big Thread. I've said it before in this thread and so has intrepid.

That another super or two chime in is no surprise.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by masqua
At the top of every page on this thread, you'll find the following:

This thread is an ATS Big-Thread with 3316 replies, and subject to more strict moderation.
Please stay focused. Stay on-topic. Minimal or off-topic posts and T&C violations are subject deletion and/or a warning.


I've mentioned it in this thread once before and so has intrepid, but it seems that, once again, the issue has come up.

If getting to know each other was part of an on-topc post, none of this would have happened.

Instead, we have what seems to be a desire to throw your hands up in the air over the dislike of a rule plainly visible to everyone reading this page, including all of the staff.

I'm sorry to see it happen.

For those who are leaving,,, THANK YOU for all your efforts in the Opera. They will forever stand as a part of the best collaborative effort I've ever seen in this forum.

For those who want to go on, you can count on my help.



This is what I have been waiting for and to specifically address.

Masqua has been very helpful and supportive in my short time working with the opera. I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to such an endeavour and have enjoyed it. That being said, I have a problem with the his statement that is not quite accurate.


Originally posted by masqua
Instead, we have what seems to be a desire to throw your hands up in the air over the dislike of a rule


Slayer already had stated a need to leave the thread. This issue precipitated something he was already planning to do. In my understanding, he hasn't thrown his hands in the air at all he was simply carrying on with his plans. His reasons are his own.

I myself have never disliked the rule as it is.

It is simple, clear and makes sense.

I have followed the rules here on ATS , mostly, and when a mod has had to kick me back into play I've taken it at face value and gone on. I have even posted on threads in defence of the mods on occasion. I haven't taken issue with "the rules"

I do however take issue with the method used to enforce the rule and the personal reasons behind what happened the other day.

We get off track sometimes. It happens.

We do not, however, see a double supermod bomb within 2 minutes out of the blue . If one had already done so why the second threat?

Was the first not enough?

I suspect that the second didn't know and actually made a simultaneous post.

This would mean that somebody informed two supermoderators at the same time that there were off topic posts and that they needed to be stopped.

Why?

Why not just add a reminder themselves? Did they not want to let us know that they monitor our thread?

What reason for running to multiple supermods when any one could have made a simple reminder?

It smacks of games.

This bugged me but the dozen stars bolstering it told me that the games were supported by other members as well. This is something that I just am not comfortable with.

It's not that I don't want to follow the rules. I just don't want to play the games.

Call it throwing hands in the air. I guess that is close enough to accurate to agree with. Just know that it is not over the rules. It is to remove myself from an activity where certain members are playing games. I'm not real good with diplomacy but I'm genuinely good at detecting subterfuge. (I've got Badger senses) I just don't want any part in those when I am investing hard work and effort into the endeavor.

With all respect to the Space Opera, Masqua and all of its' active and talented contributors, I apologize for any hard feelings I may have caused. I hope the Opera continues to flourish and look forward to reading it in the future.

Badger















[edit on 053131p://f35Sunday by badgerprints]



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 

I've always said that anyone who wants to opt out certainly has that choice


EACH AND EVER WRITER on the Space Opera CONTRIBUTED - WAY MORE - than could have ever tipped the balance into the negative for ATS.

If ATS and the Mods can’t stand behind QUALITY CONTRIBUTORS - then ‘ya’ll’ will get left with the ignorants and vulgarians.



It is to remove myself from an activity where certain members are playing games. I'm not real good with diplomacy but I'm genuinely good at detecting games. I just don't want any part in those when I am investing hard work and effort into the endeavor.


Exactly.

peace


[edit on 16-8-2009 by silo13]



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by badgerprints
 


My feelings exactly Badg.

ATS isn't exactly a site for this sort of thing, meaning collaborative writing, and I think that some members might take it as an affront that the Opera exists.

I sense a lot of unnecessary drama over a very minuscule issue. If it was as easy as adding a relevant sentence three words long to the end of a post, there wouldn't be so many stars on both mod reprimands.

If ATS doesn't want this sort of thing here, I understand and am willing to move along. I just wish people would come straight out with the real issue instead of playing games.

- Seeker



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by badgerprints
We do not, however, see a double supermod bomb within 2 minutes out of the blue . If one had already done so why the second threat?

Was the first not enough?

I suspect that the second didn't know and actually made a simultaneous post.

This would mean that somebody informed two supermoderators at the same time that there were off topic posts and that they needed to be stopped.


It's standard proceedure not to discuss staff actions, so I'll go the obtuse route. Has anyone here ever hit the alert button? You do know it sends a message to all of staff online at the moment? That's all I can think of to say.



It smacks of games.

This bugged me but the dozen stars bolstering it told me that the games were supported by other members as well. This is something that I just am not comfortable with.


I have no way of knowing who starred the posts or why. Any member reading it could have done so.


It's not that I don't want to follow the rules. I just don't want to play the games.

Call it throwing hands in the air. I guess that is close enough to accurate to agree with. Just know that it is not over the rules. It is to remove myself from an activity where certain members are playing games. I'm not real good with diplomacy but I'm genuinely good at detecting games. I just don't want any part in those when I am investing hard work and effort into the endeavor.

With all respect to the Space Opera, Masqua and all of its' active and talented contributors, I apologize for any hard feelings I may have caused. I hope the Opera continues to flourish and look forward to reading it in the future.

Badger


And I am then left only to thank you for all of your contributions to the Opera.

it's sad to think that it has come to potential ruin over a few off-topic posts, but, if that is how it happens, then that is how it happens. It's not that I didn't seed a few warnings on this thread.

[edit on 16/8/09 by masqua]



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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Hi everyone, just popping in for a minute, have not received any u2us to let me know when to jump in off anyone else's posts, I do have some ideas ready to fly from where i left off, and if you check my sig it will give some little hints.

What if the Nephilim were to be controlling the Dark Lord and his minions? Just an idea.

Ug, spellcheck


[edit on 16-8-2009 by antar]



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by SeekerOfAUTMN
 



How hard would it be to include some personal comments within an on-topic post?

I could tell you, for instance, after discussing something relevant to the Opera, that my son has just published his first book and that it is available on Amazon.com.

There's nothing wrong with a little camaraderie, but everything wrong with nothing BUT camaraderie.

Remember the FCP and what happened there.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by masqua


And I am then left only to thank you for all of your contributions to the Opera.



[edit on 16/8/09 by masqua]


And I'd like to thank you and the Opera members for a memorable experience.

All of your points are valid and understood.

I still have to go with my gut on this one.'

No hard feelings I hope.

Thanks.

Badger


















uh oh...............my Badger senses.......... are tingling.


[edit on 103131p://f02Sunday by badgerprints]



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Seeker AUTUMN
 


Oh wow, I had no idea this was still going, have only read this page, but I have to add this, That recently there was an overhaul of some of the other forums that are still a great success, it caused some real hard feelings for the regular members, but was clearly pointed out as to why.

For one thing, there are no longer any forums where regular chit chat is able to happen, except for BTS chitchat, reason being the forum is huge, and there are people who felt like cliques were forming and that they were being excluded.

This forum has been set up for what 99.9% of it has and continues to do, discuss the thread.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we are not an elite group that can do as we please because of the success of this Opera, and we are not being singled out, other much longer running forums have had the same rules set in place to the heartbreak of members who had gathered there for years.

Don't let this get personal, I think it is just part of the growing pains as we move forward. And I hope that we all continue to move forward.

Now I need to read back a few pages as I have no real idea what is going on and who is leaving/left.

Slayer, if you left I am going to be mad! Your posts always speak to the sci fi loving child in me, I get to not only read your excellent work, but look at engaging pictures as well.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 



How hard would it be to include some personal comments within an on-topic post?


Not hard at all. That's why I wonder why a few off topic posts would constitute a problem. Simple problem, simple solution, presumably simple to overlook on the few occasions when the opera has been slow.

By the way, your son published his first book? Congrats! It's always been my dream to publish a book, good to hear that it's possible!

That reminds me, I've got no problem with you at all Masqua. I would be willing to bet that you know your stuff. I just think that one off topic page out of 167 shouldn't be a problem and that it should be expected among friends.

Rules are made to be bent and broken, after all.


[edit on 16-8-2009 by SeekerOfAUTMN]



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Slayer, that was a beautiful exit Dear John you left all of us, did you forget all of the Captains on the Yydryl tho? Better go back and straighten things out, they are after all still with us in heart!

I have to say that it was an honor working with you on this Opera, and if you do get anything else going let me know and I can at least do a cameo.



it was very respectful of you to say that you 'may' come back to join us from time to time as well, thanks and know that as long as the Opera exists you always have a place to come home to.



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by SeekerOfAUTMN
 

Why in the name of god would anyone make such a big deal about such a simple issue?


Conforming - and to make sour-grape ex-contributors and wanna-bees feel like they’re good little patsies.

Once more, - If the quality space we’ve put IN to ATS doesn’t allow us to take a bit of space OUT of ATS then I really think the writers here need to take a look at what is important to them vs how they are be treated and how it will feel to continue writing under the sword of conformity.

peace



posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 11:46 PM
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Deson how’s things? Are you ok? You going to have a chance to get a post up in a day or two you think?

Or you Studious? As Deson said you’re welcome to go ahead...?

On the Neno front - He’s still not answered my emails so I am worried and can only hope it’s nothing more than a computer problem that’s keeping him away from the Opera.

peace



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by antar
 

have not received any u2us to let me know when to jump in off anyone else's posts


How can you ‘jump in’ on someone else's post? Aren’t you off Ship somewhere under the sea or whatever?

Also, I was wondering what’s up with you leaving the way you did off Ship without bothering to contact anyone to let them know you’re ok?

Maybe Deez was supposed to tell us something like you’re ok and he forgot?

If so it would be great if you would write a Deez post where he remembers that he forgot to let everyone know you’re ok?

If not that, something so we’ve some idea how to carry on with your character. As it is we don’t even know if you’re dead of alive.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by silo13I really think the writers here need to take a look at what is important to them vs how they are be treated and how it will feel to continue writing under the sword of conformity.



The 'sword of conformity' you are dismissing is what has enabled this website to grow into what it is today... a place of civil discourse.

If it were not for the rules by which we are all required to 'conform', then we would devolve into the usual quagmire of petty sniping, profanity and flamefests so prevelant elsewhere on the web.

If you do not like the rules, silo, then, by all means post a Complaint and try to change them. It's not like that hasn't happened before, but this public complaint is not the way to go.



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 07:37 AM
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“A Concern”

I believe that the contributors to the Opera are concerned because of two key factors.

The first major factor was the fact that there were two moderator messages.
There are two plausible explanations for why two moderator messages were made. They are as follows…

1. Both Moderators just happened to be looking at the thread at the same time and began writing their messages simultaneously and were unaware that another moderator was posting.

2. An alert was sent out and two mods responded to it. They both began writing their messages at the same time and were unaware that another mod was posting. (This seems to be the most likely explanation because an alert is sent out to all moderators simultaneously. This would explain why two moderators would be writing a message at the same time for the same thread.)




The second major factor was the fact that there happens to be an oddly high number of stars on the moderator posts.

This is what I think concerns the members of the Opera above everything else.

The number of stars is very high especially considering how many contributors are active in the Opera currently, and how many have shown objection to the moderator posts.

This leads some to wonder who outside the Opera starred those posts. That is where I believe the root of the fear and hurt feelings lays and where our concern developed.

This concern is that other members here on ATS have possibly alerted staff (Which would explain why two mods were checking the same thread at the same time.) and then starred the subsequent moderator posts en masse.

I don’t believe the other members of the Opera mean any disrespect to the rules of this august site. I believe that the contributors to the Opera feel that someone or some group may have singled us out for action.

Whether this is true or not it is "A Concern."




Unrelated: (Which keeps this On-Topic)

Silo I assumed those g-droids you mentioned that would be guarding the exits would also escort the team to the room you assigned them.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Studious]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 08:40 AM
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ok, so you people know. Yesterday, I started coming down with a major flu type bug. I'm medicated up like crazy and can barely think. I'm going to have tohold of until I'm coherent. Believe me if the number of redlines my spellchecker is glareing at me right now is any indication. It's best if I don't at the moment. I'll continue to read the threads (both the story thread and this one as well) when I can.

Just a brief aside concerning what's been going on. I believe that it was studious that broght up the twoconcernes (alerting and then the number of stars). It's the second that bothers me the most as well. I suspet that there wil be those who despise banter in almost any form and saw the opportunity to .... how shall I say this? .... express displeasure since they don't have writer's status? I have encountered a attitude from some in the past that view BTS for example to be a ..... less than worthy place.... to put it mildly. I imagine that there are those who would view collaborative writing in general to be ..... less than worthy..... of ATS and therefore saw the opportunity throw a monkey wrench in the works. And hey, if it results in the story thread being destroyed by pissing off the writers wellso much the better as far as some of those people are concerned. Or at least these are my thouhgts.

That said.

Feel free to run me as an NPC if need be to advance the storyline. I just can't seem to concentrate for any length of time due to medications at th e time being.




[edit on 17-8-2009 by Deson]



posted on Aug, 17 2009 @ 09:36 AM
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Okay, this is the last I'll say of it until it happens again.

I think the major point of the issue was the number of stars. I mean, come on. You have to know it wasn't us who starred those posts. I certainly didn't. Hell, I didn't even know something was wrong until about a page after it happened.

Anyhoo.

I'm sticking this thing through. I have too much invested in this story to run off because some "people" got angry about us being on here writing stories. It's as simple as not clicking on the link to the thread to ignore it. Really.

I do have to say I am extremely proud of all the writers who have contributed to this story - the hours spent, etc. Hell, I feel like you people are some type of distant family to me. You all were around when my kid was born... lol. So, I'm not going anywhere. It's going to be tough to fill the voids left by Slayer and Badger, indeed, but we're going to push through this. I can't believe he took the best engineers off the Penelope with him when he left.... LOL - you fiend! I'm going to have to cross my fingers and hope we can find a replacement crew amongst the refugees. Who knows, we might have a civilian/military mix in the crew now. Could make for some interesting story twists and turns.

For anyone on the outside - and you know who you are - stay away from us. If you can't just read the story and enjoy it, go bother someone else. We don't care about your displeasure, nor will you shake our conviction to this story. Go to hell.

There.

That's the last I'll mention of the "issue."

Expect a new post by Luder up soon.

Cheers!



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