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The Space Opera Working Thread

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posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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Any edits needed, after agreement by post authors, will be happily made by myself. All I need is the page number.

An indication of where on the page would save me some reading too.



The opera is far too important to allow inconsistencies to remain (once found).

[edit on 16/7/09 by masqua]




posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 


No inconsistencies that I mentioned in my previous post have been posted in the Story thread yet. But I thought it prudent to correct misconceptions before they become part of a post.


[edit on 16-7-2009 by Studious]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by Studious
 


Alright, Gaius Baltar...

First,

I have to agree with Studious - we joke around about it a bunch in the working thread, but no one really ever did hear him talking to his wife or the other invisible friends of his.

Second,

Thanks for the complement Cindymars!



Cheers!



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by mf_luder
 


Your welcome Destroyer of Worlds!

Joking don't go getting all mad at me. LOL


[edit on 16-7-2009 by cindymars]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by cindymars
 





posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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I'm getting a headache keeping up with all of this.



No more posts for Badger.
If you need him he will be in the nearest bar getting drunk and yelling at random intervals.

"A spreadsheet!
My kingdom for a spreadsheet! "


You guys are free to join me.

[edit on 16-7-2009 by badgerprints]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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Oh and one more thing Studious.

I'm not sure if you understand how a chain of command works so let me explain it to you.

The Captain of the ship authorizes EVERY mission that occurs from the ship, no one else - and especially not some random Lieutenant Commander.

Any orders that "were given directly by AGENCY or DEPARTMENT X" don't matter.

So no.

There was no "authorized" mission from the Penelope to attack the Yydryl to rescue Seeker.

Just wanted to clear that up. Seems there was a bit of confusion.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by Studious
 


Just to cover a few points, then I'll say no more.



The attack was an authorized mission


I could find no such authorization in the story thread. I'm currently waiting on confirmation that it was in fact authorized.

Edit: Misson Authorization comfirmation denied. No authorization present. Reference the recent anti-piracy activity off the coast of Somalia. All hands aboard, whether in the crew or external to it, were under orders from the ship's captain. Even the SEALS, in the face of an observable and imminent threat to the life of the hostage, had to wait on the captain's orders to fire.



Incorrect I had Studious seal the brig so no one would hear his insane rantings.


I'll grant that, ignoring the ubiquitous presence of cameras and monitors in jails even in our modern "primitive" (relative to 2320) times. This means Studious will no longer have an insanity defense.



The threat made by NI was unknown to Studious and definitely unknown to the Marines.


This will probably not succeed as a valid line of defense in a court martial for mutiny. I know of no instance where "I didn't have the bigger picture, so decided to disobey orders and then take the commander out on incomplete information" has succeeded.



Studious is only a rescued survivor given the guest quarters. He has taken no command position aboard the Altair. As I stated medical history would not have been in the data tapes ONLY NI would have known that. (See the description under number 2.) If the promotion of Studious was illegal so was the promotion of Seeker who had also committed a criminal act.


This I'll have to research to see where I can find instances of promotions being given to individuals in someone else's command. I was under the impression that most military organizations frown upon that sort of thing, but it IS possible, I suppose.

In any event, Asher's promotion was in the wake of an action above and beyond the call of duty, resulting in the saving of both the Penelope and Yydryl, as well as an entire solar system. I'm not sure what part of that is "criminal" and would result in being passed over for a promotion.

If we are referring to the Nimitz incident, then that was already dealt with at the time of the hearings. Double Jeopardy doctrine prevents continued retaliation.



The threat made by NI was unknown to Studious


and



The data tapes are undoctored.


These two statements are contradictory. Only one or the other can be true, not both.

Understand that this is nenothtu's viewpoint. Every action he has seen out of Studious since the Nimitz incident has been tending in one direction - it all has been building a case in neno's mind that Studious is working for NI, and the case keeps getting stronger. Every action he's seen from Studious has been to a) threaten the life of the Captain, b) defend illegal activity of NI or c)interfere during battles and reduce the combat effectivenes of Penelope, while simultaneously shielding the enemy.

I'm afraid that the Altair's appearance with the same observable objectives will send him over the edge, confirm his suspicions of a spreading conspiracy against the UEF in general, and the Penelope in particular, and probably drive him underground.

Unfortunate that it will happen during a time of declared war.




[edit on 2009/7/17 by nenothtu]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by badgerprints
I'm getting a headache keeping up with all of this.



No more posts for Badger.
If you need him he will be in the nearest bar getting drunk and yelling at random intervals.

"A spreadsheet!
My kingdom for a spreadsheet! "


You guys are free to join me.

[edit on 16-7-2009 by badgerprints]


I yelled at a random interval once. It stood right up and slapped me. How about if neno just drinks... and eats peanut butter cookies?



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 01:10 AM
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Old random and I go way back. He never takes me seriously. Watch out though. You never know what he's going to do next or when he's going to do it. He does occasionally drink beer. I think he likes peanut butter cookies too.


Hey, don't the last few pages of this thread belong in one of the Debate threads?


Oh wait. Where's that dictionary? I know the word is in here somewhere. Collaborate......collaborate.......there it is. Wait....hmm....no. That can't be right.



[edit on 17-7-2009 by badgerprints]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by badgerprints
Hey, don't the last few pages of this thread belong in one of the Debate threads?


Oh wait. Where's that dictionary? I know the word is in here somewhere. Collaborate......collaborate.......there it is. Wait....hmm....no. That can't be right.


I completely agree.


I ask that everyone reads the following linked posts in their entirety. This will give us all a refresher course in where the disagreements lie and help us to work them out.



The debates started here...

Neno's post on 7-1-2009

My response post on 7-1-2009

Then came back here...

Neno's post on 7-16-2009

My response on 7-16-2009

and continued...

Luder's post on 7-16-2009

Neno's second post on 7-16-2009


The issues that keep coming back are.

1. Was the Yydryl hostile or not?

2. Was the mission to rescue Seeker authorized?

3. Was firing on the NI ships appropriate?

It is acceptable and necessary for our characters to disagree but we as writers must reach some sort of consensus.







Originally posted by nenothtu
In any event, Asher's promotion was in the wake of an action above and beyond the call of duty, resulting in the saving of both the Penelope and Yydryl, as well as an entire solar system. I'm not sure what part of that is "criminal" and would result in being passed over for a promotion.

If we are referring to the Nimitz incident, then that was already dealt with at the time of the hearings. Double Jeopardy doctrine prevents continued retaliation.


For the record I was referring to the 4 unarmed people Seeker killed in the NI dropship moments before being promoted. Not the Nimitz incident.



Originally posted by nenothtu I'm afraid that the Altair's appearance with the same observable objectives will send him over the edge, confirm his suspicions of a spreading conspiracy against the UEF in general, and the Penelope in particular, and probably drive him underground.

Unfortunate that it will happen during a time of declared war.


The appearance of the Altair over Earth will be very quick and nothing would indicate to the Penelope that Studious was on board.

I do NOT intend to have the Altair engage the Penelope. Rather I have something completely different planned.

[edit on 17-7-2009 by Studious]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Studious

The issues that keep coming back are.

1. Was the Yydryl hostile or not?

2. Was the mission to rescue Seeker authorized?

3. Was firing on the NI ships appropriate?

It is acceptable and necessary for our characters to disagree but we as writers must reach some sort of consensus.


For clarification, this would be the character neno's take on those questions:

1. Yydryl had displayed no hostility, either physical, verbal, or psychological during this incident, and as a matter of fact had just rescued one of Penelope's crew from certain death. He can discern no signs of hostile intent from that. (Writer's POV: We were there for a dinner party, and got a boarding party instead)

2. The "rescue attempt", involving blatant hostility on the part of the humans, was not authorized. It was a surreptitious assault that bypassed the Penelope's chain of command. For a legitimate authorization, it would have had to have been run through Luder, OR it would have had to have been launched from another ship that HAD authorized it. What WAS authorized, and in fact requested, was the rescue of Asher by the Yydryl in the first place. Writer's POV: That's just Studious! 'Mavericks' do as they will, and ignore chain of command all the time. For some reason, it never catches up with them in most stories)

3. The NI ships gave every indicator of hostile intent, threatening to destroy Penelope, OR kidnap her captain and a crew member. As far as he is concerned, they asked for war, and they got it. Their actions were no different than pirates on the high seas since time imemmorial. Furthermore, given their history of unilateral action, there were no guarantees that they wouldn't kidnap the captain AND leave Penelope as a cloud of ionized gas, to hide the kidnapping, and simply disappear the captain and Asher. That would be a very pirate-like thing to do.

My take as a writer is that my hand can be forced (given already established facets of the character) to cause the character to do nearly anything conceivable to protect Penelope, her crew, and now the entire UEF (if it even still exists since the 'E' part of that equation has just been damaged heavily) from actions he perceives to be damaging to those things, particularly now. Since Earth is heavily damaged, the UEF is in imminent danger, and is in fact in a declared war, neno will have little patience for extralegal proceedings that damage the survival efficiency of the Federation.

The whole debacle proceeds from perceptions of the characters. I.E. Studious is apparently unaware that he is operating from incomplete data tapes, as is the captain of the Altair now. Neno is convinced that Studious is a NI agent, particularly since he appears to have a penchant for direct action, as opposed to legal proceedings, exactly as NI has demonstrated they are. When it all settles out, it appears from the outside looking in that Studious may find himself very cross with Lt Jones for transmitting tainted data, and neno will find himself very cross with Lt Jones for stealing said data and transmitting it.

It should be noted at this juncture that Penelope is probably aware of the incomplete nature of the data, since according to your post the transmission was detected, and presumably it would have been recorded for analysis. It should also be noted that neno is going to be very cross with his own security staff for allowing that theft and transmission in the first place.



For the record I was referring to the 4 unarmed people Seeker killed in the NI dropship moments before being promoted. Not the Nimitz incident.


The legalities of that action have yet to be determined, so the promotion shouldn't be questioned - yet. No legal proceedings nor any evidence have yet been presented. Neither has Asher's defense been allowed in court.




Originally posted by nenothtu I'm afraid that the Altair's appearance with the same observable objectives will send him over the edge, confirm his suspicions of a spreading conspiracy against the UEF in general, and the Penelope in particular, and probably drive him underground.

Unfortunate that it will happen during a time of declared war.


The appearance of the Altair over Earth will be very quick and nothing would indicate to the Penelope that Studious was on board.

I do NOT intend to have the Altair engage the Penelope. Rather I have something completely different planned.


Studious' presence on the Altair would be irrelevant to neno. Surprising, of course, but not relevant. The actions of the Altair will be relevant indeed! Especially given his growing belief that NI is attempting to stage a coup against the UEF (now in a weakened state, thus much more vulnerable), and silence those aware of this fact, Asher in particular. Altair's actions, and in particular possession of data that they 'shouldn't ' have, will associate them automatically in his mind with NI, and strengthen his suspicions about Lt Jones, since Jones transmitted the data to begin with, to an unknown receiver. As long as Studious is not on Penelope, or threatening her crew with haphazard firepower, or more direct 'extralegal' actions, he doesn't enter the equation in neno's mind. (Writer's POV: It's gonna be hard for neno to accept that Altair could find Penelope THAT fast, in all the vastneness of space, when Penelope arrived there initially in one of her famous 'lost in space' accidents, wasn't entirely sure where she was herself, and hadn't had any comms with UEF Command (RE: No records of actions relayed to UEF, which would have been first comm priority).

The logic of that will unfold in the story thread.



[edit on 2009/7/17 by nenothtu]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 04:17 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 



When you mention the data tapes being doctored I assume you are looking back to this quote.


Originally posted by Studious
The threat made by NI was unknown to Studious and definitely unknown to the Marines. All were acting in the idea that Luder was attacking Earth ships for no reason.


What I meant is that when Studious was running around and attacking the Captain that he did not know about the threat NI had made.

Studious, after reviewing the data tapes on the Altair, WOULD have learned about NI's threat.

I intended (and intend) to have the data tapes be undoctored and pristine.

The Altair Captain, though knowing about the threat, still sided with Studious. This is because the threat made by NI does not justify using sedated prisoners for bombs. Nor does it allow for the destruction of escape pods.

It also does not excuse the fact that Luder has not arrested, or at least investigated, Seeker for his recent activities. (Those activities being the murder of 4 unarmed men in a dropship and the destruction of hundreds of defenseless escape pods.)






Originally posted by nenothtu
(Writer's POV: It's gonna be hard for neno to accept that Altair could find Penelope THAT fast, in all the vastneness of space, when Penelope arrived there initially in one of her famous 'lost in space' accidents, wasn't entirely sure where she was herself, and hadn't had any comms with UEF Command (RE: No records of actions relayed to UEF, which would have been first comm priority).


The Penelope has been gone for a long, long time.

First jumping away from where we were headed and meeting the Yydryl.

Then the entire mission to the Yydyrl. Including boarding, getting captured, escaping, having Seeker kill the others and Studious ejecting himself and Seeker into space.

Then there's the discussion with Luder and the promotions...and demotion.

Then Studious' escape from solitary confinement and the ship nearly crashing into the planet.

Then of course there's the entire battle with the NI ships.

And then Studious' exile into the escape pod.

And finally the crash landing and the time it took Studious to fix the radio.

(I assume the radio would need to be capable of interstellar communication because if you're in an escape pod your ship is probably finished. Therefore the only hope is to contact another ship. Having a very short range radio would be almost useless unless another ship was incredibly close by.)

So the Altair didn't even need to be very close to where the Penelope was. They just needed to be within radio range.







Originally posted by nenothtu


For the record I was referring to the 4 unarmed people Seeker killed in the NI dropship moments before being promoted. Not the Nimitz incident.


The legalities of that action have yet to be determined, so the promotion shouldn't be questioned - yet. No legal proceedings nor any evidence have yet been presented. Neither has Asher's defense been allowed in court.


I must disagree it is not a good idea to promote someone when a cloud of uncertainty surrounds what they did.

If a cop shot 4 unarmed people he would definitely not be instantly promoted. (If he was promoted that would receive instant public outcry.)

A police officer that had done that would be placed on administrative leave and an investigation would be launched.

Luder promoted Seeker and never launched an investigation into the incident. Rather he imprisoned Studious possibly because he suggested an investigation. (At least that's what the character would think.)




When you mention the data tapes being doctored I assume you are looking back to this quote.


Originally posted by Studious
The threat made by NI was unknown to Studious and definitely unknown to the Marines. All were acting in the idea that Luder was attacking Earth ships for no reason.


What I meant is that when Studious was running around and attacking the Captain that he did not know about the threat NI had made.

Studious, after reviewing the data tapes on the Altair, WOULD have learned about NI's threat.

I intended (and intend) to have the data tapes be undoctored and pristine.

The Altair Captain, though knowing about the threat, still sided with Studious. This is because the threat made by NI does not justify using sedated prisoners for bombs. Nor does it allow for the destruction of escape pods.

It also does not excuse the fact that Luder has not arrested, or at least investigated, Seeker for his recent activities. (Those activities being the murder of 4 unarmed men in a dropship and the destruction of hundreds of defenseless escape pods.)

[edit on 17-7-2009 by Studious]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 05:16 AM
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For the record,

The maneuver with the bomb buddies was off the record.




posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 05:41 AM
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Originally posted by mf_luder
For the record,

The maneuver with the bomb buddies was off the record.





Alright, that does make sense


But I assume blowing up escape pods would still be part of the record.

[edit on 17-7-2009 by Studious]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 05:51 AM
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Hi all on the Penelope...

I don’t know if this will help or not but - don’t forget the Yydryl was sent a diplomatic packet from the Penny, which was *stolen* by Keepers. (After the whole rescue thing.)

Remember Keeper tried to erase whatever it was from the data base?
Well, Silo happens to have this information.


Starship Yydyrl, this is the USS Penelope. We have enjoyed this opportunity to meet with another culture, but unfortunately we have important business to attend to. I leave you with good wishes and the hopes we will again cross paths in the future. If you so desire to make contact with the UEF or any of our ships, I am transferring a data packet to you for diplomatic purposes. Good wishes. Captain Luder out.


Is there something in this Data Packet you could use? Something to help hammer out any confusion?


Well this would be extremely usefull. Adilaris pondered his options once more. There was no need to follow the ship, as he had no interest in it's occupants for the moment. However the diplomatic outreach would need to be kept secret for the moment.
As the packet came through Adilaris copied it within himself and then removed it from all of Yydry's system memory.
"The......ccrreew...migh...eed...aht...." Yydryl speech was being impared, most certainly by the repairs taking place. No matter, her imput was not needed for this particular task.


Ship sent it to me when I was on Earth via my necklace.


Though the message was a bit garbled Ship instructed me to backup a diplomatic data packet sent from the Penelope and relay information on a recent on board arrival to CindyMars.

Downloading the packet to my memory banks I kept my gaze riveted on Fernando but began to worry again about Ship and Captain Scurvy.
First Whisper's disappearance and now someone attempting to erase a diplomatic information pack received from the Penelope without forming a backup.
Not only was it against intergalactic law but Ships protocols as well.
My desire to return to Ship was outweighed only by my command to gather the vegetation for Ship's Center.


Anyway, just in case this could be used - feel free to request the info.
I’m back on board and ready for whatever comes my way.


peace



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 06:28 AM
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Originally posted by Studious


Originally posted by nenothtu
(Writer's POV: It's gonna be hard for neno to accept that Altair could find Penelope THAT fast, in all the vastneness of space, when Penelope arrived there initially in one of her famous 'lost in space' accidents, wasn't entirely sure where she was herself, and hadn't had any comms with UEF Command (RE: No records of actions relayed to UEF, which would have been first comm priority).


The Penelope has been gone for a long, long time.

First jumping away from where we were headed and meeting the Yydryl.

Then the entire mission to the Yydyrl. Including boarding, getting captured, escaping, having Seeker kill the others and Studious ejecting himself and Seeker into space.

Then there's the discussion with Luder and the promotions...and demotion.

Then Studious' escape from solitary confinement and the ship nearly crashing into the planet.

Then of course there's the entire battle with the NI ships.

And then Studious' exile into the escape pod.

And finally the crash landing and the time it took Studious to fix the radio.

(I assume the radio would need to be capable of interstellar communication because if you're in an escape pod your ship is probably finished. Therefore the only hope is to contact another ship. Having a very short range radio would be almost useless unless another ship was incredibly close by.)

So the Altair didn't even need to be very close to where the Penelope was. They just needed to be within radio range.



I'll have to review it all again, but I think there is one more "unknown destination" jump in there. There's the one initially at the rendezvous with Yydryl, and another where the planet was spinning, and Penelope had to 'bounce' off of the atmo because her engines were damaged in the NI fight. The last was of much shorter duration, with ruins but no civilization, and the former had a civilization, of which we have two hostile ambassadors on board (or do we, after all the damage?). But then what 'I' know won't affect 'neno's' assessment of the situation anyhow. If Altair shows up with the stolen data, he'll be forced to assume it was in the vicinity of the Ruins Planet, since that's where the transmission was sent by Jones.

My bad on the range of the radio. I had assumed it was a hand-held unit, not realizing that Studious had trekked all the way to the escape pod's wreckage to get the Ship's Radio, then carried that mass back to the SETI buildings. I thought it came down with him on the parachute, and so was a hand-held unit. I stand corrected.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 06:50 AM
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Excellent point!

This part gives me pause for thought:


Originally posted by silo13


Well this would be extremely usefull. Adilaris pondered his options once more. There was no need to follow the ship, as he had no interest in it's occupants for the moment. However the diplomatic outreach would need to be kept secret for the moment.
As the packet came through Adilaris copied it within himself and then removed it from all of Yydry's system memory.
"The......ccrreew...migh...eed...aht...." Yydryl speech was being impared, most certainly by the repairs taking place. No matter, her imput was not needed for this particular task.


If neno gets wind of that, it'll be further confirmation of his "NI is taking over the universe" grand unified theory. He'll no doubt be convinced that Adilaris is working with NI too, because of this action mentioned here, coupled with the timing of his arrival at Yydryl.

Neno wears a size 7 3/4 tin foil hat, if anyone makes one for him.




Ship sent it to me when I was on Earth via my necklace.


Though the message was a bit garbled Ship instructed me to backup a diplomatic data packet sent from the Penelope and relay information on a recent on board arrival to CindyMars.

Downloading the packet to my memory banks I kept my gaze riveted on Fernando but began to worry again about Ship and Captain Scurvy.
First Whisper's disappearance and now someone attempting to erase a diplomatic information pack received from the Penelope without forming a backup.
Not only was it against intergalactic law but Ships protocols as well.
My desire to return to Ship was outweighed only by my command to gather the vegetation for Ship's Center.



See? Silo is suspicious too!


Nenothtu is developing a Grand Unified Theory of the NGO (New Galactic Order) takeover of the universe....

Book signings start in September...


[edit on 2009/7/17 by nenothtu]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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The following illustrations are so easy a caveman could do it.




(This image is not intended as advertising and displays no company logo. (Unless they've trademarked cavemen.) The company shall remain nameless. Although I'm sure you know which one I'm talking about.)







Here are some illustrations which show the how the Altair could have arrived in time. (The captions are below each picture.)





The Penelope departs Earth and begins traveling toward the planet that the ambassadors are from. (The Yydryl is over that planet.)







The Penelope and Yydryl meet over the planet as the Altair departs Earth in search of the Penelope.








The Penelope leaves orbit and heads back toward the Earth. The Penelope is therefore heading toward the Altair, which is moving forward slowly due to the fact that it is searching.







Hearing Studious’ distress signal the Altair stops over the planet with the ruins. The Penelope after having battled the NI ships resumes its course toward the Earth.







The Penelope arrives over Earth and sees the devastation. The Altair having picked up Studious rushes back toward the Earth.

 


Edit by author request

[edit on 18/7/09 by masqua]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 10:04 AM
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First off, let me start with a big LOL

For Studious.

I haven't seen such elegant Paint artwork in a long time......

Secondly, I didn't mention this earlier, but thanks for bringing that up Silo!

I was curious how someone is going to come in and remove our message of goodwill..... then never write in the opera again.....





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