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Freemasonry is good

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posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 09:39 AM
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I believe Freemasonry in its purest form is totaly different from the political organization. It appears that it has been infiltrated by another sect and used for more sinister purpose. However, the tenets and philosophy of Freemason are based upon life itself and cannot be changed.




posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 01:32 AM
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Interesting.

I think I feel you on this one.

Care to elaborate a little?



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by daone
I believe Freemasonry in its purest form is totaly different from the political organization. It appears that it has been infiltrated by another sect and used for more sinister purpose. However, the tenets and philosophy of Freemason are based upon life itself and cannot be changed.


What political organisation? Are you talking about UK or US Freemasonry? What sect and how is it sinister? Please elaborate.

I'm a Freemason (UK) and would like to hear what you have to say.

Cheers,
Grey.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 09:41 AM
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First of all Freemasonry is Freemasonry whether it be in UK, US, Russia, China, France, or anywhere else. The basic fundamentals are the same. That's the reason why Masonry is universal. Just becuase someone has been through the rituals and sits in a lodge does not neccessarily mean that the individual has a deeper understanding of the mysteries. I know this from personal experience. I have come to understand that within the teachings there are awesome truths concerning reality. However, there appears to have been some perversion that has taken place with the mysteries. The underlying motive appears to be control.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 10:50 AM
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I have to disagree with you on one point: If Freemasonry is the same all over the world, why does the UK Grand Lodge refuse to affiliate many of the foreign organisations?

Yes, I've heard the theory about it being all about deceit and control. I can believe the former as I've mentioned on these forums before that the junior Lodge members are told very little and what is explained seems to be done in such a way as to create more confusion. However, I am still waiting to see an explanation of this.
Ok, further questions as you didn't directly answer my previous ones..
What exactly is being withheld?
Why?
What is the ultimate purpose?
What are these "truths"?
What political organisation?
What is sinister?
What sect?
What is the purpose of your thread? I'm not clear about what you are or more to the piont, aren't saying. Are you going to actually say something substantial? I'm not trying to be funny, but dropping hints and vague statements (e.g. mysteries, awesome truths, underlying motive) is a bit pointless.
I won't start holding my breath yet for a clear answer

Cheers,
Grey Pilgrim.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Grey_Pilgrim
If Freemasonry is the same all over the world, why does the UK Grand Lodge refuse to affiliate many of the foreign organisations?


The United Grand Lodge of England recognises all legitimate Masonic organizations worldwide. Almost every country in the world has Lodges recognized by the UGLE.


I can believe the former as I've mentioned on these forums before that the junior Lodge members are told very little and what is explained seems to be done in such a way as to create more confusion.


As I've mentioned on another thread, it takes a minimum of 2 months in my jurisdiction to become a Master Mason. During this time, the new Brother's task is to study his degree, whether it be Apprentice or Fellow. We do not attempt to confuse him....this is why we use the degree system. Once he has mastered the First Degree, he is ready for the Second Degree, and so on. It is analogous to teaching a person algebra before advancing him to a calculus class.


However, I am still waiting to see an explanation of this.
Ok, further questions as you didn't directly answer my previous ones..
What exactly is being withheld?
Why?


If you are referring to the "secrets", this was addressed on another thread. Under despotic regimes and churches, Freemasons have been persecuted, and it was thought secrecy was a requirement for our existence. This is largely oudated, and Masonry is no longer a secret society, yet we preserve our ancient methods of teaching our Craft out of tradition.


What is the ultimate purpose?


The ultimate purposes of Masonry are to unite men in fraternity which should serve as a model for society. In Masonry, the new member learns enlightened philosophy, ethics, and government.


What are these "truths"?


The philosophy of Masonry is available to the public in the fraternity's many books. I would suggest beginning with "The Builders" by Dr. Joseph Fort Newton.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 12:21 PM
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From all that I have read over the past 6 years online, I just simply CANNOT believe that there is not a sinister side to Freemasonary. I have known some Masons , some of them were high up in the Masonic structure, and they were always looking for a way to basically rip some one off.

From what I have read, which is not just con. theroy but documented fact, from both concerned people to ex Masons who became Christians, there is NO doubt in my mind that Masons worship Lucifer, Satan the Devil. There is too much deception, everything covered in darkness.Only those chosen get to join. Compare that to the teaching of Christianity. Nothing is in the dark, the truth is known and availble for anyone.

Masons teach that all routes and faiths lead to God. So someone worshiping Jesus , Mohammed and Bahomet are worshipping the same deity. Problem is that if that is the case , why did Jesus die for the sins of the world if there were other ways to salvation????



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
From all that I have read over the past 6 years online, I just simply CANNOT believe that there is not a sinister side to Freemasonary.


I think the fact that you mention that your research has been online speaks largely of the validity of it. Don’t get me wrong, excellent information can be found on the Internet, when prepared by scholarly sources. The problem is that anyone can write anything they want to and put it online, and with anti-Masonry, it is usually done anonymously. There is no standard requiring information on the Internet to be factual, or even researched, and the anti-Masonic pages are a fine example. I’ve also read hundreds of them, and have found that they mostly parrot each other, showing serious lack of any real research.


I have known some Masons , some of them were high up in the Masonic structure, and they were always looking for a way to basically rip some one off.


Would you mind elaborating? I’ve heard this charge before, but for some reason it’s always a generality, no one seems to be able to give any specifics.


From what I have read, which is not just con. theroy but documented fact, from both concerned people to ex Masons who became Christians, there is NO doubt in my mind that Masons worship Lucifer, Satan the Devil. There is too much deception, everything covered in darkness.Only those chosen get to join. Compare that to the teaching of Christianity. Nothing is in the dark, the truth is known and availble for anyone.


Again, this statement is a parrot of the various anti-Masonic websites, and really doesn’t contain even a grain of truth. In the first place, Masonic Lodges are fraternal organizations, not houses of worship. Masons do not worship anyone or anything in the Lodge, they worship in their churches, synagogues, or wherever their particular religion is practiced.
Secondly, the charge that Masons worship the Christian’s devil is indeed as ludicrous as can be; no serious researchers have ever insinuated that, not even the anti-Masonic ones.
One anti-Masonic researcher, the Christian evangelist Dr. Robert Morey, writes: “Of all the attacks against the Craft, none is vicious as the charge that Masons are a secret cult of Devil worshipers or Satanists and that at some point in the higher degrees they must pass through a Luciferian initiation.” (“The Truth About The Masons” by Rev. Dr. Robert Morey, p. 23)
Here Dr. Morey, a Christian who is opposed to Freemasonry on religious grounds, shows something that sadly lacking in anti-Masonry: honesty. On p. 21, Dr. Morey writes: “Anti-Masonic writers have generally been as unreliable as Masonic apologists. In their zeal to attack Freemasonry, they have been willing to use fantasy, fraud, and deceit. They have even created bogus documents when needed. Their writings must not be taken at face value.”

Several of these “bogus documents” continue to surface on anti-Masonic websites. For example, the anti-Masonic hate propaganda site called “Freemasonry Watch” continues to display a fake letter supposedly written by American Mason Albert Pike to the famous Italian patriot Giuseppe Mazzini. The FW website claimed the letter was authentic, and was in the British Museum. Upon investigation, it was found that no such letter has been in the British Museum, and the curators declared it was a hoax.
Therefore, we see a web of deception woven not by the fraternity, but by those who are opposed to it.



Masons teach that all routes and faiths lead to God. So someone worshiping Jesus , Mohammed and Bahomet are worshipping the same deity. Problem is that if that is the case , why did Jesus die for the sins of the world if there were other ways to salvation????


To begin with, Masonry doesn’t teach any routes to God. It is a fraternity, not a religion. Every fraternity and sorority in the world are in some ways derivative of Masonry.
Secondly, no one has ever worshiped Muhammed or Baphomet. Muhammed was a man, not a deity. The word “Baphomet” is a corruption of “Muhammed”; it was used by the Catholic Church to persecute the Knights Templar as heretics. The Church claimed the Templars had converted to Sufist Islam, accepted Mahomet (the French spelling, related to “Baphomet”) as a prophet.
Lastly, your belief in Christianity is irrelevant to the discussion. This is not a Christian forum, and not everyone here believes in your religion. You have the right to hold your religious beliefs, but so do we.
Religious beliefs are a matter of faith; the subject of Masonry, however, involves fact, which is documented.
In the US most Masons are Christians. I am in the minority because I am a Mason, but am not a Christian; therefore, your arguments from a Christian perspective do not hold relevance to me personally.

Fiat Lvx.


[Edited on 20-4-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 06:18 PM
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im with daone freemasons are good dudes my great grandfather was the head of our local lodge and vice mayor of the city he was a good guy



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
From all that I have read over the past 6 years online, I just simply CANNOT believe that there is not a sinister side to Freemasonary. I have known some Masons , some of them were high up in the Masonic structure, and they were always looking for a way to basically rip some one off.

For every organisation, there will be a website somewhere written by someone with an axe to grind. Would you provide examples of these rip offs?


From what I have read, which is not just con. theroy but documented fact, from both concerned people to ex Masons who became Christians, there is NO doubt in my mind that Masons worship Lucifer, Satan the Devil. There is too much deception, everything covered in darkness.Only those chosen get to join. Compare that to the teaching of Christianity. Nothing is in the dark, the truth is known and availble for anyone.

I find that suggestion insulting. Would you provide me with some evidence that I worship Satan please? Bear in mind when you use your reasoned argument that I am NOT Christian and therefore do not believe in Satan. As for being chosen to join. Wrong again. I asked to join. I approached the Freemasons.


Masons teach that all routes and faiths lead to God. So someone worshiping Jesus , Mohammed and Bahomet are worshipping the same deity. Problem is that if that is the case , why did Jesus die for the sins of the world if there were other ways to salvation????

I'm not Christian, so this argument holds no water for me at all.

I eagerly await your response.

Cheers,
Grey Pilgrim



posted on Apr, 22 2004 @ 06:56 AM
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To address some of the points here:

The UGLE is one of the "sister" constitutions of Ireland, England and Scotland, the three oldest Grand Lodges in Freemasonry (England 1717, Ireland 1725, Scotland 1735). Many countries would have had Provincial Grand Lodges under one of these constitutions in the past, many still do. But the US for example, now operates its own system of Grand Lodges, under their own authority which enjoy recognition from the sister constitutions.

Secondly there are many "Masonic" bodies that the Sister Constitutions do no recognise, for example the Templar Orient. These organisations are usually ones that claim Masonic origins but do not stem fro the Ancient, Free and Accepted Masonic tradition that produced the Sister Constitutions.

Freemasonry in general though is a system of philosophy. It is not actually a secret society, but a society with secrets. The places of meeting of Masons are not secret nor have they ever been unless proscribed by the authorities, as they are currently in Pakistan for example.

The secrets themselves are purely a way of identifying those who have attained a certain level of progression. The secrets themselves are of no great informative value they are purely identifiers.

The main information is communicated through parables and stories based mainly on Old Testament episodes. These parables are supposed to teach moral and philosophical lessons to foster personal development. There is a strong tradition within masonry to emulate what you see as good in others and to discard what is less desirable. As such, no one is put on a pedestal as perfect; rather qualities that are good ad respected those that are less so are encouraged to be reformed. The emphasis is on benefit to society as whole through personal improvement.

Finally, looking at history and where Masonry has been established through periods of political upheaval, it is pretty obvious that there is no clear political agenda in the order.

Two specific examples exist for this, the American war of independence and the 1798 rebellion in Ireland.

In America, Masonry had been well established among the emerging population of European descent and among the British military presence. There is documentary evidence that men from both sides of the divide were members of the same lodges. This is hardly consistent with some clear political objective. Baigent and Lincoln et al in "The Temple and the Lodge" goes into this in detail in the latter half of the book giving Lodge numbers for British Regiments and for American volunteer companies.

The same situation existed in Ireland. There are accounts of brethren being asked to retire from the lodge to resolve their differences as they were on either side of the divide in the 1798 rebellion. Again, British military personnel stationed in Ireland at the time were also members of the same lodges. Again this hardly reflects some coherent political strategy. Without going into it too much, the same can be said of the French Revolution, the Napoleonic War, and right up to World War II where German, British and American Soldiers were masons.

I think much has been made in recent years of it being a secret society with dark political secrets and ambitions. There is little or no evidence of this. Any that is presented is usually based on false information and hearsay. For example, Stephen Knights "Jack the Ripper: The Final Solution" is full of absolute rubbish offered as truth regarding Freemasonry presented as fact.

Unfortunately the truth is far more prosaic than the theorists would believe. It is terribly disappointing but there you go.

And before any one asks, yes I am one and was more disappointed by most to find out the truth about them. But once I saw their actual purpose, improvement of the self to benefit the community, I realised they had something for me.

Ascalon.



posted on Apr, 24 2004 @ 11:55 PM
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I always find the "Not a secret society" thing such a wind-up. I know hundreds of Mason and none of them will publically admit it, even to their own families until they manage to get them into Order Eastern Star or suchlike.
In fact even to this day I have only met one Freemason who admitted his affiliation and he told me that they were "nothing special", "just a club" etc...
Once you are familiar with the way of the craft its not difficult to spot a Mason but its almost impossible to prove without going to such lengths that you end up portraying yourself as a fanatic and they then use that as their excuse as why they didn't tell anyone else in the familly, "to protect themselves from senseless attack..."
What is so amazing is that they actually believe it is normal to lie to close family relatives about thier affiliation.



posted on Apr, 25 2004 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
In fact even to this day I have only met one Freemason who admitted his affiliation and he told me that they were "nothing special", "just a club" etc...
Once you are familiar with the way of the craft its not difficult to spot a Mason but its almost impossible to prove without going to such lengths that you end up portraying yourself as a fanatic and they then use that as their excuse as why they didn't tell anyone else in the familly, "to protect themselves from senseless attack..."
What is so amazing is that they actually believe it is normal to lie to close family relatives about thier affiliation.


So...is that why we wear Masonic rings, pins, and tie-tacks...or maybe why our cars have Masonic decals on the back, as well as personalized Masonic license plates?
Or perhaps why we walk in public parades wearing our Shrine fezzes, and riding our scooters? Or our public corner stone layings...or our thousands of websites which have our photos posted in full Masonic regalia?
Gee whiz, partner...you might be on to something there.



posted on Apr, 25 2004 @ 06:01 PM
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Funny you know, how you all talk about these things, and they are for sale on the web and all, but no one out there seems to have actually met a guy who willl say he's a Mason, or seen someone other than a geriatric old man wearing a Masonic tie.
Yet close to 10% or maybe even higher of the adult male population is currently in a Lodge.
The wacky thing is you actually believe that you are telling the truth because of the "Hitler Theory" - if everyone tells the same lie then it becomes the truth.



posted on Apr, 25 2004 @ 09:07 PM
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Please don't think you're fooling anyone. Instead of the "Hitler Theory", I think you've been entangled in the Barnum Effect, named for the showman P.T. Barnum, who pointed out that "there's a sucker born every minute."



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