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Anti-Death Penalty 101

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posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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In this thread, I will explain in depth why I do not think the death penalty is justified.

Point 1: Deterrence is impossible to prove

Most supporters of the death penalty (about 64%) do not believe the death penalty is a deterrent. mvdg.wordpress.com...

Now whether this is true or not is almost impossible to know, but it's just as likely the death penalty increases murder rates as it is it brings them down.


Point 2: The Old Testament does not clearly endorse capital punishment

The term "an eye for an eye" was actually a measure of mercy, not vengeance. It was to ensure that people were not given horrible punishments for minor crimes, as was common in ancient societies.

Secondly, the passages that support the death penalty come from a time when GOD supposedly ruled over the Jews. Most rabbis are almost as against capital punishment as the Pope is.


Point 3: You ARE hurting innocent people

As case after case shows, most people will still love their family members even if they commit crimes as terrible as murder, rape and child molestation. Even in decrying their actions, they still love them. Is the brief satisfaction you might give the victims' families by putting the criminal to death worth the permanent pain you will put the criminals' INNOCENT family through?

Point 4: Countries without the death penalty are generally more developed than countries with it


Point 5: The death penalty is a gateway to genocide

Supporters of the death penalty believe that some people are "life unworthy of life". You know who also believed that? Adolf Hitler.

Now mind, Hitler believed entire races of people deserved to die and not just insane killers, but the principle is still the same. If you give your government permission to kill criminals, they can make excuses to also kill innocent people.




posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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And in this post I will explain why the death penalty should be applied.

It gets rid of people who given a second chance would kill, maim, and hurt others in a heartbeat without a second thought.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
And in this post I will explain why the death penalty should be applied.

It gets rid of people who given a second chance would kill, maim, and hurt others in a heartbeat without a second thought.





So does putting them in jail for life without parole. I understand it's wired into human beings to support the death penalty. Almost everyone does at least in principle, I've learned.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


If you put them in jail for life, they have no reason to care about anything. Then they could kill any guard or inmate because they know they have life anyway.

That means they would be hurting innocent people.

Similar to point 3 you made.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 06:45 PM
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Now Darko,

I do agree with most of your post, however.

Law and Religion are in no way suppose to mix...EVER.

The law in the US is not dependant on the Bible, much less the Old Testament.

Second it is in our nature to kill those who have done harm to us. We've been doing it for centuries and it isn't about to stop now, we aren't nearly as nice and intelligent as we claim to be.

Were really cave men with better clothes. I am sorry but I would rather NOT pay for the person who raped and murdered my my child to stay in a cozy jail cell the rest of his life as "punishment" for what he did. And truthfully I don't think you would either.

I don't condone hurting anybody for reasons other than hurting children.

~Keeper



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Now Darko,

I do agree with most of your post, however.

Law and Religion are in no way suppose to mix...EVER.

The law in the US is not dependant on the Bible, much less the Old Testament.

Second it is in our nature to kill those who have done harm to us. We've been doing it for centuries and it isn't about to stop now, we aren't nearly as nice and intelligent as we claim to be.

Were really cave men with better clothes. I am sorry but I would rather NOT pay for the person who raped and murdered my my child to stay in a cozy jail cell the rest of his life as "punishment" for what he did. And truthfully I don't think you would either.

I don't condone hurting anybody for reasons other than hurting children.

~Keeper



I get what you're saying. Of course I would feel like they should die if that happened, but the idea of killing people to avenge children actually disturbs me too. I don't think we should be more forgiving of people just because their victims are older.

Now of course as a human I can't stand people who hurt kids, it just sickens me in a way hurting adults doesn't - but it's about principle. In truth, it's just as bad to hurt an old man as it is to hurt an innocent child. Sure they can defend themselves, but what if they fail?

[edit on 14-3-2009 by Donnie Darko]



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 

"I have come to the conclusion that executions solve nothing, and are only an antiquated relic of a primitive desire for revenge which takes the easy way and hands over the responsibility for revenge to other people..."
Albert Pierpoint.

Had Timothy Evans - wrongly executed for the infamous Christie murders recieved a life sentence an innocent man would have recieved compensation instead of a postumus pardon.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Derek Bentley,Colin Campbell Ross are examples of innocent people executed by the state for crimes they did not commit.

Even today people who have spent years on death row have been found innocent.
www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

Argumenst for capital punishment:

1. Deterent. Capital punishment has not been shown to work as a deterent.

2. The taking of a life is one of the worst offences and must be punished.
Since life is precious, how can the state justify taking the life of its citizens. And what about those found innocent after they have been executed.

4. To protect the public. Locking a person away protects the public.

Our desire to avenge those who harm us or our loved ones is part of our human nature. It is driven by anger, fear, grief and hate. If someone hurt my family I would want them dead, but this would not undo their crime or free me from my pain.

life should mean life, this is not a cosy option. People who speak of prison as a cosy option often seek punishment and revenge to go hand in hand.

Justice should not be driven by our baser instincts but by logic.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 01:16 AM
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I would like people who support the death penalty to argue their case point by point as to why I'm wrong.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by Donnie Darko]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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We can NOT triumph over evil in our species until we abolish the death penalty.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 01:38 PM
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Sorry to say but is many instances that death penalty is just and right.

And I still take the eye for an eye like the bible intended, no sugar coated like the OP does.


[edit on 15-3-2009 by marg6043]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Sorry to say but is many instances that death penalty is just and right.

And I still take the eye for an eye like the bible intended, no sugar coated like the OP does.


[edit on 15-3-2009 by marg6043]



Why is it a good thing though? How does it make the world a better place?



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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"Point 4: Countries without the death penalty are generally more developed than countries with it"

And a lot less barbaric.


"Second, it is in our nature to kill those who have done harm to us."

It also is in our nature to kill those who have done no harm to us.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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It doesn't have to make the world better beside getting rid of another paraside, but it does comfort the victims family that support an eye for an eye.

No more explanation needed.

You ask for opinions and one is given.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
It doesn't have to make the world better beside getting rid of another paraside, but it does comfort the victims family that support an eye for an eye.

No more explanation needed.

You ask for opinions and one is given.


So basically, since the criminal was able to get their rocks off, the victims should also get the "pleasure"?



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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Im against capital punishment 101%..whats the logic here? you didded bad things so we do bad things to you! lolz!...its juvenile,ridiculous and absurd.Thankfully i dont have to stomach such draconian,dark age primitive thinking in the uk.What i do have to stomach is the so called *life sentence* which actually means 25 years,half that if your a nice wee boy...with tv,consoles,sports,meals everyday etc etc Life should mean life and it shouldn't be a burden on the tax payer..forced manual labour to pay your way in prison imo.Im against capital punishment for whatever the crime, be it paedophiles,rapists,mass murderers or anything under the sun.Its backwards, disgusting and makes you no better than the perputrator of such things.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by Solomons]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by Solomons
Im against capital punishment 101%..whats the logic here? you didded bad things so we do bad things to you! lolz!...its juvenile,ridiculous and absurd.Thankfully i dont have to stomach such draconian,dark age primitive thinking in the uk.What i do have to stomach is the so called *life sentence* which actually means 25 years,half that if your a nice wee boy...with tv,consoles,sports,meals everyday etc etc Life should mean life and it shouldn't be a burden on the tax payer..forced manual labour to pay your way in prison imo.Im against capital punsihment for whatever the crime, be it paedophiles,rapists,mass murderers or anything under the sun.Its backwards, disgusting and makes you no better than the perputrator of such things.


Oh yeah, that's not right, I think the very worst criminals who can't be reformed should spend life in jail or a mental institution. They shouldn't be tortured or left for the wolves, but they should get solitary confinement with only the most limited forms of entertainment.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Were really cave men with better clothes. I am sorry but I would rather NOT pay for the person who raped and murdered my my child to stay in a cozy jail cell the rest of his life as "punishment" for what he did. And truthfully I don't think you would either.

So you'd rather pay for someone to be killed? Maybe it's a natural human reaction, but I seem to be missing that urge entirely and I can't be the only one. I just can't get my head around the idea that the desire to kill someone to get revenge is something that ought to be indulged.

Though, I disagree that the Old Testament should have anything to do with it...it's more like, just don't kill anyone if there's any other alternative whatsoever? If we executed all drunk drivers that might save a lot of people, but I don't see many promoting that.



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by Donnie Darko
We can NOT triumph over evil in our species until we abolish the death penalty.


There will always be evil and abolishing the death penalty won't help us "triumph over evil". Giving the crimnals a bed & breakfast won't help anything



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


Tell me something, What if someone came into your home and killed the one person you love the most, are you telling me you wouldn't want to kill that murder?



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Dark Jester

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
We can NOT triumph over evil in our species until we abolish the death penalty.


There will always be evil and abolishing the death penalty won't help us "triumph over evil". Giving the crimnals a bed & breakfast won't help anything


Don't you think an unconditional regard of human life would promote peace?



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