Was the actual goal of the Nazis Population Reduction?

This is my personal opinion. Hitler was a vegetarian (to some degree) and a strong supporter of animal rights. Now I'm very green, but I do NOT think genocide is the answer.

I think the Jews, Communists, Poles, etc were just the beginning. He probably wanted to reduce the global population to 10%, 20%, 500 million, or whatever, and leave only the Germanic people faithful to his regime.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


I think he wasn't so much to eliminating everyone except for the followers ... i think he was into ridding the world of what he viewed as the 'weaker races' and leave only those who followed him and his 'aryan race'

reply to post by Donnie Darko


i'm not sure either, population reduction wasn't really a issue in those time.

I think that Hitler's reasons where more out of a so called purification of the ''genetic pool'' of those he considered wrongly to be inferior.

IMHO

I watched an awesome show last night on the History Channel or the Military Channel can't recall as it was middle of night and I was preparing a thread....It was called Hitler and the Occult or Nazis and the Occult..gimme a break it was like 4am lol. Anywho, it had really cool actual footage from the era.

The show was informative. They stated before the Nazi were even in full power they had plans to create the Superrace. They opened institutions which mated anyone with blue eyes and blond hair and *no* defects. They took these babies and had a huge baby farm - I forget the numbers but it was really large. These babies grew up never knowing their parents. Sadly, any babies born during the Nazi regieme that showed any signs of defect were killed and the parents told the baby had a natural death.

Hitler, during a speech, told the Germans by euthanizing the old, the physically and mentally challenged that it was the 'humane' thing to do. Any members of the SS, pure heritage which had to be proved back to around the 1400 - 1600 (can't recall for certain but this is close), if any of these SS soldiers had any 'defect' - diabieties ect (genetic) they were to be made infertile in attempts to 'perfect' the race. Hitler genuinely believed this was better then natural selection to create a race fitting of this world. His attempts tied into greatly with the mythology of the Norse legends - Odin ect. They even used runic symbols, the symbol of the SS is the rune that resembles a lightening bolt and is a symbol of greatness, omnipotence, doubled. (Hmmm...Harry Potter has same symbol on his forehead)

For me, the deeper question is with all this interest in the Thule society and ancient relics - what is the *true* reason behind the obcession of bloodlines.

The man was off of his head, simple as that.

I think he had no other thing in his mind except for the destruction of every group or culture that he did not like ie Gypsies, Homosexuals, Jews and to a lesser degree East Europeans (who he considered subhuman).

His (but most likely Himmler's) desire to breed German women with his stud ranch of SS elites shows that population control was not a main priority.

If you have ever read Mein Kampf you could see that he blamed Jews for about everything that was ill in the world and it was his mission to wipe them out to save the Ayrian race.

Originally posted by grandnic
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

i'm not sure either, population reduction wasn't really a issue in those time.

I think that Hitler's reasons where more out of a so called purification of the ''genetic pool'' of those he considered wrongly to be inferior.

IMHO

Actually it was already about 1.5 billion+.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by grandnic
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

i'm not sure either, population reduction wasn't really a issue in those time.

I think that Hitler's reasons where more out of a so called purification of the ''genetic pool'' of those he considered wrongly to be inferior.

IMHO

Actually it was already about 1.5 billion+.

I don't quite understand what you are saying there, can you please explain further?

^I mean even by the 1940s, the world population was going up really fast.

There are many valid and not so valid reasons regarding German expansionism and Hitler's desire to initiate World War II.

Chiefly amongst them was the horribly concluded Treaty of Versailles that seemed to almost ensure Germany would have to fight another war to get out of it or be crippled as a nation for many years to come. Saddled with having to repay both England, France's and the United States War Debt and damages to property in France the gross national product of Germany could barely cover the Interest on the money owed let alone make a sizable dent in it. The rapid industrialization and mechanization of society left Germany with no oil within it's own borders scrapped for cash to buy both oil and coal abroad to modernize it's infrastructure while paying it's debt. Worse still the impact of the World Wide Depression at the time created little market for it's exportable goods to raise the cash to pay it's war debt and buy badly needed oil and coal on the international market, which led to an environment that made citizens of Germany the hardest hit by the depression.

Though History obscures it Germany had all but won World War I prior to America's entry into it. America had been loaning money and providing weapons to all sides in the conflict and was content to simply profit financially off of the war being won. By December of 1916 the British were nearly bankrupt and out of ammunition and the French Army was in a near state of Mutiny. Because of the prolonged state and style of trench warfare in a war that was now essentially stalemated for three years the opposing factions had agreed the previous two years of the war at Christmas time to declare a brief armistice and cease fire over the Christmas Holidays. The men of the opposing sides would actually put down their weapons and leave their trenches and exchange toasts of schnapps and cognac and scotch with one another and visit and celebrate with one another singing traditional songs and then return their trenches at the end of the holiday and start shooting at each other again. Russia had already capitulated and Germany was now fighting the war on only the Western front in France, and was well aware through intelligence of the dire situation in the trenches for the English and French as their ability to fight and stay cohesive had almost completely evaporated.

Amazingly the Germans chose to offer an extended ceasefire and peace offer at the Christmas of 1916 and informed the British Government that if it wished to surrender on agreeable terms that Germany was basically prepared to withdraw entirely from the field and leave France and return within it's own borders. They gave the English an indefinite period of time to formulate it's decision and acceptable terms for ending the war and ceased hostilities entirely through the Christmas Holidays and beyond.

They had in fact won the war at this point. England though did not offer terms or surrender, but instead produced the Balfour Declaration signaling Great Brittan's intend in writing addressed to the Banking Scion and Prominent Zionist Lord Rothschild to provide the Zionist Congress with land in Palestine to form a Jewish Settlement in the Holy Land. Brittan at the time was also bogged down in the war against the Ottoman Empire with the rest of it's expeditionary force and having little success there. Palestine was held by the Ottoman Empire and Ruled by the Mufti of Jerusalem at the time and their was not even a battle front to attack Palestine but were bogged down at Gallipoli and having no success at it. The British out of ammunition, credit and bankrupt were in no position to render the Balfour Declaration valid.

A behind the scenes deal utilizing Lord Rothschild's extensive banking influence through American associates to pressure America into the war against Germany then occurred in short order.

If you were to visit the New York Times archives and read America's take on the war throughout 1914, 1915, and 1916 it clearly shows a bias towards the German side born of a little retained hostility towards the British for the War of 1812 though our relations with England were good enough to loan them money and advance them credit and ammunition throughout the war to that point.

However a research of the the press accounts will show that Wall Street was investing much more heavily in Germany and for a specific reason. Of all the Jewish communities in Diaspora at the time the Jews of Germany were in fact the most influential and prosperous of any of the Jews in other nations. Jews had key positions in Government, Banking, Industry and were on a rare at the time near even par with ethnic Germans. Even in the United States at the time History will show Jews were treated as second class citizens and that did not change until the conclusion of World War II.

However the Jewish presence in banking and investment in America was definitely on par with any other group on Wall Street and Wall Street was bullish towards the Huns for that reason.

As the cease fire went on into the New Year American Companies continued to ship weapons to the Germans and the British had a habit of seizing and prizing by established Laws of the Sea American ships that the Royal Navy suspected where carrying arms to a belligerent engaged in hostilities which in this case was Germany. The Maritime Laws at the time allowed the seizing Navy to file a claim at the court in the Hague Netherlands and claim and reflag the ship their own. Several seizures happened during the cease fire and suddenly Brittan began not pressing the claims and relinquishing the ships back to their American Owners after seizing the weapons bound for Germany on board.

Germany filed a protest with both the United States and Brittan because of this violation of law and changing in the relationship it signaled. At the same time Jewish groups inside of Germany began issuing appeals in the form of published letters to the Jews in America to stop funding the German Army. This was not because treatment of the Jews in Germany worsened but because the Balfour Declaration promised a Jewish Homeland in Palestine which was near and dear to their hearts and England had to win the War in order to carry out the conquest of Palestine to deliver it.

The American press in short order started publishing inflammatory stories instead of flattering stories about the Huns. American Arms shipments and funding from Wall Street Stopped and American Arms Shipments to England increased dramatically. Germany began boarding and seizing American Shipping quickly souring the relationship further and setting the pretext for direct American involvement in the War. A U-Boat attack on the Lusitania though a passenger liner it was laden with munitions in it's holds and fair game the loss of American life led to a quick declaration of War.

Refunded with American and Rothschild Money, rearmed with munitions, a now rejuvenated and resupplied English and French army rejected the peace proposal of Germany and resumed the attack. Even when the Americans entered the war and had some initial advances at great cost Germany still held a dominant and viable position of strength and was armed and funded to fight on with a well motivated army wanting to when to the high commands amazement an offer of complete surrender was offered to the English/America/Franco Armies from Berlin stating any terms imposed. The German Central Bank run and maintained by Jewish Banking interests had cut off Credit to the government in Berlin forcing it's complete surrender and utter humiliation and then the humiliating treaty of Versailles negotiated in the Palace owned by none other than Lord Rothschild with Paul Warberg of the U.S. Federal Reserve negotiating the financial aspects of the punishing treaty, and of all people is very own brother Max Warberg of the German Central Bank accepting the crippling treaty after the public ...continued

Eugenics, simply eugenics.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Max Warberg personally escorted the Prussian aristocrat originally sent by Germany to negotiate the treaty back to Germany to return himself later to conclude the deal.

As incredible as this sounds it is all real history and an important first step of not only establishing Israel, but really, really, giving Germans serious doubt about the Jewish presence and influence within it's government and society.

So the German State after World War I was broke, short of resources, in the grips of a terrible world wide depression, in the midst of a runaway inflation like no other currency has even seen before or since that at one time required a wheel barrel full of notes to buy a loaf of bread, and on top of that in debt beyond any repayable amount or reason, with a banking system controlled by the Rothschild Family intent on making the country pay it's debt to England, France, and America for a war it had not started and had technically won once and was still winning when it was forced to withdraw from the field by being cut off from it's own Rothschild Control supply of money.

No offense to anyone Jewish out there but I would be pretty steamed too at this point. These are all very important little details left out of history books today because the victors get to write the history books. They don't though get to go back and rewrite Newspaper articles.

Germany had been forced to disarm, relinquish some lands to be used as buffer zones against a future German military move in the west and suffered horribly for several years while political unrest gripped the country with Communist factions from Russia promoting a communist movement that was being widely backed and manned by...German Jews!

Various German political factions were fighting in the streets in brawls in Bavaria and Berlin, unemployment was at a staggering level.

Then a very radical and fiery former Army Corporal the sixth member of the Nazi party who was actually paid to join it as a spy suddenly took it over and through his passionate speaking style and appeal for national pride began to grow the movement rapidly fighting communists in street brawls and urging Germans to unite in a single movement to force political change in Berlin. When General Ludendorf agreed to participate in a large scale demonstration against the Hindenburg Government it moved to put it down and Hitler found himself arrested and imprisoned in a luxury castle with plenty of time to write a book about his struggle. When he emerged from captivity his movement had some new friends, Fritz Thysen the leading German Industrialist, and some new friends through him on Wall Street Named Areval Harriman of the Wall Street's most influential investment firm of Brown Brothers and Harriman. He had other new friends like Rockefeller and Esso Oil, and yet another new friend who would visit Germany and oversee a bank in the United States called UBC to funnel money to the Nazis and even direct and own a couple of companies eventually in occupied Poland that utilized slave labor from Auschwitz, and his name was Prescott Bush who not only was George H.W. Bush's father, but George W. Bush's grandfather who never had any trouble getting gas for the trucks for the slave labor from Auschwitz to deliver them to his mines and steel mills because there was an Esso Gas station operating on it up until 1942 when it took an act of the U.S. Congress to shut it down.

Hitler as well as the Italian El Duche were well funded by the American Powers that be who throughout the thirties were extolling the virtues of Facism and clamoring for it to be introduced to America because the new Fascist Governments of Italy and Germany had rebounded from the great depression while America was still gripped by it. Little matter that was because American big money was investing heavily in and birthing these regimes while fighting Roosevelt's New Deal policies tooth and nail.

The reality truly is that Hitler fought the war because he was paid too. He was paid to by the wealthiest Americans.

That Hitler then appeared to take an excruciating revenge on the Jews for their betrayals during the last war, the crippling economic conditions they placed on Germany, and the attempt to introduce communism into it is hard to truly ascertain though he certainly had great pretext all things considered.

For behind the scenes as Hitler was rising to total power of Germany there was a mad race in going on in the world's first big Birth Certificate Scandal taking place in Hitlers native Austria. A still suspicious SA with very good reason since Hitler would soon kill of the entire leadership of the brown shirt Nazi paramilitary army that had secured his march to power would all soon be executed by him once he consolidated it.

For Adolph Hitler himself was rumored to be the illegitimate Grandson of the Austrian Branch of the Rothschild family whose grandmother had worked in his employ as a young woman to the notorious womanizing Baron and left suddenly after becoming pregnant.

History is still not quite sure how Hitler received his schooling, mentoring, and kept himself as an artist in Vienna as an unemployed person in the grips of a withering depression, or just why he was housed so luxuriously during his brief imprisonment or why he was chosen and paid to infiltrate the Nazi Party to spy on it. Much of the evidence like Hitler's Birth Certificate was seized by trusted members of the New S.S. even as he was doing away with the old SA.

Three things are fairly for certain, the only way out of the Treaty of Versailles negotiated at a Rothschild Palace and the financial aspects of it concluded by two Jewish Brothers one living in America, one in Germany and both controlling Rothschild Controlled Central Banks virtually ensured World War II would have to be fought and initiated by the Germans.

Hitler could have never risen to power without the funding of the most prominent Americans who were still funding him and arming him even after America entered the war, and the U.S. Congress had to stop it.

After the War every surving displaced Jew in Europe was suddenly very keen to move to Israel.

What was Hitler doing and why indeed?

Looks to me like he was following orders.

The post war propaganda is not very reflective of the prewar news.




[edit on 15/3/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Hitler was a colonel? Wow, missed that rapid promotion. I suggest editing him back down to corporal, but add in 'decorated war hero' that'll make him look good and is a much more valid claim.
I did like the 'El Duche' though
As for the rest of it, well I guess people don't read history anymore. . .

Originally posted by Osmoses
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Hitler was a colonel? Wow, missed that rapid promotion. I suggest editing him back down to corporal, but add in 'decorated war hero' that'll make him look good and is a much more valid claim.
I did like the 'El Duche' though

As for the rest of it, well I guess people don't read history anymore. . .

Thanks, I sometimes do the craziest typos at 102 words per minute. My mind says corporal and my fingers say colonel. Yes to sucesfully type corporal I was thinking colonel.

You know with a shady mysterious past like Hitler's can we be sure he was a decorated War Hero?

He could have picked that Iron Cross up at a swap meet and taken those pictures in uniform at one of those fake backdrops they have at the photo booths of the county fair!!

As far as Hitler goes he doesn't have any redeeming qualities in my book but I don't think there has been a book written that fully details the politics and backdealing that went on in World War I and World War II.

A lot of key intelligence is still sealed.

The Versailles Peace Treaty Conference dragged on for years and almost as soon as the war was over President Wilson was complaining to the press once all the various secret protocols came flying out on the negotiating table by the various factions that he had felt totally duped.

I wouldn't trust any politican no matter what their stripe or how many stripes, corporals and colonels alike.

Thanks.

Well, the award of military decorations is documented. Rather difficult to fake for someone of Hitler's eventual profile. There is, understandably, an aversion to attributing positive characteristics to Hitler, but this is to view him as some kind of monster. The true horror of Hitler and the Nazi regime was that they were all too human.
There have been many, many books written on the inter-war years. WWI, the inter-war years, WWII and the cold war form a continuum where each part cannot be fully understood without studying what has gone before.
The Paris conference that led to the Versailles treaty went on for 5 months, the USA didn't ratify the treaty because of a disagreement between Woodrow Wilson and Congress, mainly centring around the ramifications for potential US membership of the League of Nations

reply to post by Osmoses


Very true, unfotunately that didn't stop the CFR from setting up shop, and Cordell Hall from pushing the United Nations down on our throat, and who could forget the lovable Alger Hiss.

We really are just one step away from the Jungle. In some ways you can chalk up a lot of Nazi attrocities to the participants being preconditioned by propoganda, but the reality I have seen right here in America a mob beat a man to death, with only the first three of them even knowing what they were beating him for. Within a five minute time span no fewer than 20 other passerbys joined in kicking and beating the man with absolutely no idea why they were doing it. If that wasn't bad enough the woman who had hastily shouted out rape to the first passerbys had fabricated the alegation and the dead man turned out to be her husband that she was only trying to stop from going to the local bar with the families grocery money and had thought she was being clever by screaming out the accusation thinking the closest people in proximity to him would simply grab him. Five minutes later he was dead.

In many ways Hitlers personal tail is tragic in it's own right. Poor discipline amongst his few European Axis partners, endless plots between his subortinates each trying to sabatoge and out do the other for his favor. Yet another betrayal by an America that starts out funding the German war machine only to later attack it, similiar betrayals by the English aristocracy, and his Gauteliers whose scorch and burn policy and kill everything standing in the East only intensified the Russian Peasants desire to fight him and take revenge where had a more humane attempt at war fare and population management might have had most of the Russians happy to be rid of Stalin. With his limited understanding of business, resource management, military doctrine and diplomacy he should have just stuck to being the Party's spokesman and seen that the government and military was run by a competent person with the experiences and skill to be head of state, and stayed out of the way of his Generals. Talk about over reaching.

I worry about Obama in the same way. I think above all what Hitler proved is some new ways are better left untried.

Sadly history has a way of repeating itself.

I do though believe wars are fought to decrease population. More so when you consider the Flu epedemic that broke out right after World War I and only seemed to affect the nations fighting World War I. Millions more would die in each of the countries in a short span of less than a year and then the flu dissapeared as fast at it came.

It was almost like when the banksters called the war after securing the Balfour Agreements first step of the British conquering Palestine they suddenly forget they were supposed to kill another 10 million people in the war and then took care of it with vaccine shots to the arm on the civilians.

I sure do wonder about this world.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
This is my personal opinion. Hitler was a vegetarian (to some degree)

Hitler wasn't a vegetarian by any real definition of 'vegetarian'. At times in his life he appeared to have 'managed diets' due to his health, and - it seems as a propaganda measure regarding the Fuhrer's cleaner than clean lifestyle - he made a claim regarding being a vegetarian. However, his actually diet and lifestyle are fairly well documented by people who were actually around him. Like a lot of Germans, he liked and ate a lot cured meats and sausages during his position as Nazi head honcho. He liked caviar too. Someone who eats red meat (as well as white meat and fowl) and fish eggs isn't any kind of vegetarian I recognise.

Someone who eats vegetables isn't "vegetarian (to some degree)". I like swimming but that doesn't make 'a fish (to some degree)'.

and a strong supporter of animal rights. Now I'm very green, but I do NOT think genocide is the answer.

Can you back this up? I'm aware of animal welfare laws coming into place during the time that the Nazis were in power, which weren't often enforced and animal vivisection was carried out anyway. Hitler famously had a dog and often used animal scenes for propaganda purposes but this is a long way away from him being a "strong supporter of animal rights".

I think the Jews, Communists, Poles, etc were just the beginning. He probably wanted to reduce the global population to 10%, 20%, 500 million, or whatever, and leave only the Germanic people faithful to his regime.

Which doesn't actually tally with what actually happened during the 1930s and 1940s though. It's interesting how Nazi Germany drew allies from all various other non-caucasian races.