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Are secret society hand-"signs" a mark of the beast?

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posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Freemasonry includes worship of The Beast.

Really? Where is this in Freemasonry?


Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Too bad the lodge hasn't taught you anything about etiquette.

Yes, because you are a shining example of what proper etiquette is.




posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Freemasonry includes worship of The Beast.

Really? Where is this in Freemasonry?


Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Too bad the lodge hasn't taught you anything about etiquette.

Yes, because you are a shining example of what proper etiquette is.



You've never read the books!

Thank you for showing me good etiquette by example



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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Dude, you haven't demonstrated any of what you've claimed.

Have you got ANYTHING for us, or is this thread destined to be a to-and-fro of meaningless banter?

1. Where does worship of the beast exist within Freemasonry?
2. Which other secret societies, if any, worship either the Beast or Baphomet?
3. Which specific hand-signs signify Baphomet? Can we have a visual example please?
4. What is the connection between miracles/supernatural displays of power and handsigns?

Is your continued silence on these issues indicative of a total lack of information to back up your claims? Are you just making it all up as you go along?





posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by Roark
Dude, you haven't demonstrated any of what you've claimed.

Have you got ANYTHING for us, or is this thread destined to be a to-and-fro of meaningless banter?

1. Where does worship of the beast exist within Freemasonry?
2. Which other secret societies, if any, worship either the Beast or Baphomet?
3. Which specific hand-signs signify Baphomet? Can we have a visual example please?
4. What is the connection between miracles/supernatural displays of power and handsigns?

Is your continued silence on these issues indicative of a total lack of information to back up your claims? Are you just making it all up as you go along?





"The Beast" is Freemasonry itself

You've never heard of Aleister Crowley! He rose to great prominence within Freemasonry!

No. Look them up yourself. I'm sure you know how to use a search engine.

The handsigns are displays of whatever they symbolize. If it's a Masonic handsign, then it's a display of the power of Masonry.

Why all of the emotion? You must feel threatened! Why feel threatened about something that's supposed to be a secret?


[edit on 23-3-2009 by vcwxvwligen]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
"The Beast" is Freemasonry itself

But Masons are taught to worship the god of their faith. So that's null and void.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
"The Beast" is Freemasonry itself

But Masons are taught to worship the god of their faith. So that's null and void.



Lots of usernames and signatures on ATS have a lot of Mason stuff, but no religious stuff?

I think we've got another Beast worshipper here



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen



"The Beast" is Freemasonry itself

You've never heard of Aleister Crowley! He rose to great prominence within Freemasonry!


1. Crowley took the role of the Beast himself...he did not identify "the Beast" with Freemasonry.

2. Crowley was not a regular Mason, and as such, could not have rose to prominence within it. In his writings, he first describes becoming a Mason in a clandestine French Lodge. He then sought to gain admission into a regular English Lodge in London, and was denied.

The following is from the essay "The Crisis in Freemasonry" by Aleister Crowley:

I determined to become a Mason myself. I happened to know that the Chaplain of the British Embassy in Z---- (Paris - ML) was Past Provincial Grand Organist of a certain English town. He proposed me, found me a seconder, and I was duly initiated, passed, and raised. I was warmly welcomed by numerous English and American visitors to our Lodge; for Z---- is a very great city.
I returned to England some time later, after "passing the chair" in my Lodge, and, wishing to join the Royal Arch, called on its venerable secretary.
I presented my credentials. "O Thou Great Architect of the Universe!" the old man sobbed out in rage, "why dost Thou not wither this impudent imposter with Thy fire from heaven? Sir, begone! You are not a Mason at all! As all the world knows, the people in Z---- are atheists, and live with other men's wives."
I thought this a little hard on my Reverend Father in God my proposer; and I noted that, of course, every singly English or American visitor to our Lodge in Z---- (Paris - ML) stood in peril of instant and irrevocable expulsion on detection. So I said nothing, but walked to another room in Freemasons' Hall over his head, and took my seat as a Past Master in one of the oldest and most eminent Lodges in London!
Kindly note, furthermore, that when each of those wicked Visitors returned to their own Lodges after their crime, they automatically excommunicated the whole thereof; and as visiting is very common, it may well be doubted whether, on their own showing, there is a single "just, lawful, and regular Mason" left alive on the earth!
The above anecdote is exactly true in every detail, and shows one side - only one side - of the morass into which the narrow formalism of the authorities has plunged the Craft.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 



I never said that Crowley called Freemasonry the Beast (or that Freemasons worship Aleister Crowley, if that's your next rebuttal)

Good, so a past master admits that Masons are wicked law-breakers. Maybe that's part of why he created his Church of Satan



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen


Good, so a past master admits that Masons are wicked law-breakers.


Where did a Past Master do that?


Maybe that's part of why he created his Church of Satan



The Church of Satan was created by Anton LaVey. Since LaVey was not a Mason, I'm afraid you're once again wandering way off topic.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen


Good, so a past master admits that Masons are wicked law-breakers.


Where did a Past Master do that?


Maybe that's part of why he created his Church of Satan



The Church of Satan was created by Anton LaVey. Since LaVey was not a Mason, I'm afraid you're once again wandering way off topic.



Aleister Crowley was a past master of his lodge

Sorry, the Ordo Templi Orientis. I tend to get my Devil worshippers mixed up.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen


Aleister Crowley was a past master of his lodge


And said nothing about Masons being "wicked" or "law breakers". You realize that both intentionally lying and trolling are against the rules, right?


I tend to get my Devil worshippers mixed up.


Along with everything else.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen


Aleister Crowley was a past master of his lodge


And said nothing about Masons being "wicked" or "law breakers". You realize that both intentionally lying and trolling are against the rules, right?

Is that a threat or a promise?

Here is a copy-and-paste:

(I)t may well be doubted whether, on their own showing, there is a single "just, lawful, and regular Mason" left alive on the earth!
source




I tend to get my Devil worshippers mixed up.


Along with everything else.

This is a good example of trolling.
 

Edit to add source for external quote

[edit on 24-3-2009 by dbates]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen


Here is a copy-and-paste:

(I)t may well be doubted whether, on their own showing, there is a single "just, lawful, and regular Mason" left alive on the earth!


Crowley was talking about membership regularity, he said nothing about Masons being wicked or criminals.



This is a good example of trolling.


Nope, just stating stating a fact, since you know as well as I do that Crowley was not a devil worshiper. You therefore are, for whatever reason, just trying to get negative reactions from people, which is called trolling.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
Crowley was talking about membership regularity, he said nothing about Masons being wicked or criminals.

Why would attending lodge be "lawful" ?


You know as well as I do that Crowley was not a devil worshiper. You therefore are, for whatever reason, just trying to get negative reactions from people, which is called trolling.

So you've never seen his handsigns?

Trolling is arguing about stuff that is not worth arguing about, like the true definition of trolling. You obviously don't understand me, so you can't accurately hypothesize about my mindset and my motives.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
"The Beast" is Freemasonry itself

You've never heard of Aleister Crowley! He rose to great prominence within Freemasonry!

No. Look them up yourself. I'm sure you know how to use a search engine.

The handsigns are displays of whatever they symbolize. If it's a Masonic handsign, then it's a display of the power of Masonry.

Why all of the emotion? You must feel threatened! Why feel threatened about something that's supposed to be a secret?
[edit on 23-3-2009 by vcwxvwligen]


I'm certainly not threatened by you, dude. You have utterly failed to demonstrate a single legitimate point in these 2 pages of confused hogwash.

- You obviously don't understand the relationship (or, after all was said and done, the lack thereof!) between Crowley and Freemasonry.
- You are clearly ignorant of the contexts and symbolism of the Beast of Revelations and Baphomet.
- You've not shown us a single example of these "handsigns".

...and now you claim that '"the Beast" is Freemasonry itself', despite the fact that Revelations predates Freemasonry by 1500 years?

This is kiddies' stuff. Farcical. Thanks for wasting my time. Please feel free to continue with your silly crusade without my participation.

[edit on 25-3-2009 by Roark]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by Roark
 



It's called "Revelation" not "Revelations." Crack open a Bible now and then

The rest of this post is a bunch of ignorance and emotional appeals.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:09 PM
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Correction: the original post is a bunch of ignorance. You've shown quite clearly that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You seem to be the only person in the entire thread who doesn't realise it.

I'm up for a formal debate in the debates forum on this (or another topic of your choosing), whenever you're ready.

At least there you'll have to actually respond to rebuttals, rather than dancing around with irrelevant garbage like how to spell "Revelation(s)"

Show us what you're made of.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Lots of usernames and signatures on ATS have a lot of Mason stuff, but no religious stuff?

I think we've got another Beast worshipper here

I don't have the same signature, but on other sites I have Revelations 2:10 (KJV) as my signature. I did not realize, though, that we had to have a religious sig to be religious, but what does that have to do with "worshiping the Beast"? I stated a fact and you made some obscure comment.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Why would attending lodge be "lawful" ?


Under Masonic law, only a "regular" Mason can attend a Lodge meeting. A "regular Mason" is one who belongs to a Lodge in amity with the original London 1717 Grand Lodge, or other Grand Lodges that derive therefrom.

Crowley was an "irregular" Mason because his Lodge was not recognized or lawfully chartered. Therefore, he was not recognized as a legitimate Mason.

Crowley also obviously misunderstood Masonic law on this point. He indicates his belief that all Masons who sat in the Lodge with him were automatically expelled for doing so, and then later, that everybody those people sat in Lodge are automatically expelled.

Crowley's reasoning here is entirely in error. The only time a Mason is expelled automatically is if he is convicted of afelony in a criminal court. No Masons are expelled for accidentally sitting in the same Lodge as an irregular Mason.



Trolling is arguing about stuff that is not worth arguing about, like the true definition of trolling. You obviously don't understand me, so you can't accurately hypothesize about my mindset and my motives.


I would assume that if you wanted a serious conversation or debate, you would not have misquoted Crowley, or referred to him as a devil worshiper, or founder of the Church of Satan. Crowley was a pagan and did not believe in Satan, and the Church of Satan was founded as a publicity gimmick long after Crowley's death.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Masonic Light]



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by Roark
Correction: the original post is a bunch of ignorance. You've shown quite clearly that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You seem to be the only person in the entire thread who doesn't realise it.

I'm up for a formal debate in the debates forum on this (or another topic of your choosing), whenever you're ready.

At least there you'll have to actually respond to rebuttals, rather than dancing around with irrelevant garbage like how to spell "Revelation(s)"

Show us what you're made of.




More emotional appeals.

You can't pimp me out for debate points. Sorry.

By not posting your "rebuttals" in the main forum, you are sabotaging the discussion.



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