The fringers continue their Birth Cert drama

Just figured in time another post will be coming round here regarding either this article or some other "breaking news". Ya'll know there are folks here trying to get us out of this economic mess, doing the work of elected office whether they be liberal or conservative. Here we have individuals who just love making publicity and spreading fringe conspiracies at the expense of time, money and cooperation.

You see Mr Posey here is a prime example of those folks. Nothing to show but point fingers and cry foul.

www.politico.com...

This bill is nothing but another stunt and a waste of the courts time.

A spokesman for Florida Republican Congressman, Bill Posey, sends over a statement from the Congressman explaining his bill to require that presidential candidates submit birth certificates is aimed at dousing the controversy -- though he said the Congressman himself thinks Obama could do more to put the issue to rest.

Says Posey:

Opponents of President Bush used the 2000 election results and the court decisions to question the legitimacy of President Bush to serve as President. Opponents of President Obama are raising the birth certificate issue as a means of questioning his eligibility to serve as President. Neither of these situations are healthy for our Republic. This bill, by simply requiring such documentation for future candidates for President will remove this issue as a reason for questioning the legitimacy of a candidate elected as President.

"put it more to rest" Posey? The man has already presented his birth certificate, the one confirmed and authenticated by the Hawaii state officials and health officials. The same one none of his opponents/FBI/CIA outright questioned, the same one that the majority of americans have accepted.

What mr Posey and the rest of fringers cant seem to get through their heads is that the "short form birth certificate" is a direct certification in law... well atleast in Hawaii. The place of birth stated on there is a direct copy of the place of birth in your long form. The birth certificate folks here cry all day about that regulars use for their licences and for ID are "short form birth certificates". If fringers would get it into theirs minds that in some states you cannot use your long form as evidence or ID unless you are requested as such by a judge. So please, dont start the "why doesnt he just show it, I had to use my BC for ID" garbage because it is highly likely you used your short form and highly likely you didnt go to all that trouble to get a judge to allow you to use the long form.

On a further note this from Poseys official spokes person:

"I think he’s willing to take the President’s word for it," Cecala said. "If the President wanted to put an end to the whole thing he could order Hawaii to release the authentic birth certificate. That’s up to him."

I seriously cannot believe that all thats left from the GOP is this fringe mentality. So what Poseys spokes person is saying here is that the Hawaiin government some how accepted a fake birth certificate at that they are somehow implicated in the hiding of the real authentic one...

Lets go over the facts shall we?

boo hoo why doesnt he just show his real birth certificate!!?

The birth certificate he presented has been authenticated by the republican controlled state government of Hawaii and the state officials. In addition the only folks complaining and arguing that it is fake are the same fringers who claimed he was "the anti-christ" "a socialist" and an a "muslim arab". Why on earth should he cater to the minority rightwing fringe who will dislike the man regardless of what he does? Better yet why should they be catered to if they have no legal standing on the matter?

Why doesnt he show his long form! Everybody else has to use theirs as ID to get a licence and "stuff"

Thats because "everyone else" really uses short form birth certificate which is in the face of the law a direct certification of the longer form. In addition you are not required to present your "long form" as ID if not requested directly by an supreme court judge.

1. PROOF OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP

a. APPLICANTS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES: Submit a previous U.S. passport or certified birth certificate. A birth certificate must include your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records.

Obama's certificate includes all of this as seen here.

In Hawaii you can register your child as being born there if the parent(s) are US citizens. Obama was really born in Kenya.

This is not true and the implications leading to Obama having to go through this at birth is well... beyond insane. You must have been born in Hawaii to have your BC show this. Releasing the fault copy however will not end the bickering from the fringe in anycase and attending to a political minority that is just plain hateful and bias is pointless. I didnt see Bush answer himself to the minory fringer liberals in their accusations of him behind 9/11 neither did Reagan answer to those minority groups who accused him of being the anti-christ. There will always be some fringe group that will hate, regardless.

Heres something else that may be interesting.

8 US Code §1481(b):

(b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. source

Even if this is just a Bill, it doesnt take a half brain to realize that Posey is trying to make something out of it. Like wise he fails to prove anything beyond the point of "not believing" and in turn once again wasting congresses and elected offices time with yet another frivolous bill. A requirement that is already in law and already done. Now why doesnt Mr Posey do the real work he was actually elected for.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Why should Illegal-Alien President Hussein have to prove his eligibility? Just shut up and all say: Sieg Heil, Mein Fuhrer!

reply to post by mdzialo


Exactly, no legal standing, no real concern about the constitution. It shouldnt be surprising that the fringers pushing this offer nothing but bickering. You are a clear example of these folks who will hate regardless.

Damn shame.

Starred and flagged, friend. That was a well written post-- refreshing, even.

So we should just accept the white washing of the matter?
If there was not problem with his place of birth, why doesn't he show the real B/C?
It has already been said that this Hawian form is not proof of place of birth.

Acceptance by the opposition is only proof of complicity.
The better to pull the wool over the eyes of the ignorant masses.

Originally posted by OhZone
So we should just accept the white washing of the matter?

White washing? As far as I can see it the fringe have yet to provide any legal standing on the matter for it to be a real issue first and formost. Everything else has been debunked.

As the prior member displayed, this conspiracy goes not further than political bickering and just plain hatred regardless. If this was regarding the legality/constitutional laws of the matter it would either have been closed or the fringe would have come up with a good legal argument as to why he is ineligible. The burder of proof lies on the minority.

If there was not problem with his place of birth, why doesn't he show the real B/C?

Again you repeat the same thing over and over again and you refuse to actually read the posts of those who answer them. He has already released his BC, it has been authenticated. Dont ignore the OP, actually read it and counter it directly.

It has already been said that this Hawian form is not proof of place of birth.

By fringers yes damn straight it has... that doesnt necessarily make it fact. When the leftwing fringer included Bush behind the 9/11 attacks should that automatically be taken as truth? Think for yourself for petes sakes.

Acceptance by the opposition is only proof of complicity.

Yes yes yes we all know Hillary wouldnt of jumped at the opportunity to spread any dirt on Obama. What world do you live in? Here let me give you a list of those folks who either agree Obama was born in Hawaii, confirm it or those who choose not to oppose it.

-The Hawaii state government (republican governor)
-State health officials
-Hillary Clinton campaign
-John McCain campaign
-The majority of americans
-The constitution (as proven time and time again)
-The Democratic party (who wouldnt risk it if they didnt know)
-CIA
-FBI
-NSA
-The Bush administration

The above must all be implicated in this conspiracy! And what do we have here? The folks who dont accept it?!

-The limbaugh crowd, the rightwing conspiracy crowd, the minority of disgruntled Hillary supporters, Alan keyes who holds personal issues with Obama since 04'... nooo.... what surprise these folks believe it.

These folks will have an issue with Obama regardless and have on numerous occasions being debunked in their arguments regarding this conspiracy. Yes yes yes this has nothing to do with partisan politics.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
The man has already presented his birth certificate, the one confirmed and authenticated by the Hawaii state officials and health officials.

No he hasn't. No it wasn't.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
He has already released his BC, it has been authenticated.

No he hasn't. No it wasn't.

The Daily KOs Certificate of Live Birth is an obvious fake.
'African' is not a race.


Question .... WHY do we have yet another birth certificate thread?
There is no new news on this. So what's the deal?
Hasn't this all been said before? YES.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


You are an utter disgrace!!!!!!! You have no Idea how angry you ignorance makes me. I cannot put in words my feelings about this.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
No he hasn't. No it wasn't.

Yes he has. The short form by the way is a legal certification of what is shown on the longer form, thats why its called a "certification of live birth. By the way flyers I just love the way you folks quickly re-defined what a birth certificate is... that still doesnt change the fact of picking each american to show their BC they use as ID and finding it is their short form.

The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed on Friday what Barack Obama has been saying all along: the presidential candidate was born in Honolulu.

“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate,” said Chiyome Fukino. “State law prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.”

www.bizjournals.com...

Further more:

“No state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii,” Fukino added.

Well there goes the health and state officials... they turn their back on ya.... by the way where are these supposed health directors that said it wasnt authentic? Where are your legal arguments on that matter? Dont tell me you have nothing besides simply not believing?!

No he hasn't. No it wasn't.

It has, and simply saying "I dont believe it" doesnt do you any good.

The Daily KOs Certificate of Live Birth is an obvious fake.
'African' is not a race.

You think its fake, other fringers think his the anti-christ, some think his the reincarnation of Stalin

People can choose to believe what they want, however if you intend to spread that belief you gotta have the stuff to back it up... ya know... that constitution, the laws of the land. This is a republic you know so please by all means.

Question .... WHY do we have yet another birth certificate thread?

Where were you last year saying this?? Iv come to realize though this thing will never leave this minds of the fringe, but Id figure Id hijack some of the news

Oh hold on a minute... does this mean flyers has nothing to back her argument with besides "i dont believe it!" no....

[edit on 13-3-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by xyankee
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

You are an utter disgrace!!!!!!! You have no Idea how angry you ignorance makes me. I cannot put in words my feelings about this.

What ignorance? It appears the fringers have nothing to back this conspiracy of theirs up besides... well little stories and stubborn "I dont believe it" comments. Besides those no legal arguments, no counter arguments towards the constitutional evidence in favour of Obama. Come on... give me a break. Come back when you actually have something.

Illleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalll.

line 2: Muuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmbbbbbbbaaaaaaasssssaaaaaaaaaa

No debate from me just good ol unsubstantiated disdain

Congressman explains birth certificate bill

A spokesman for Florida Republican Congressman Bill Posey sends over a statement from the congressman explaining his bill to require that presidential candidates submit birth certificates is aimed at dousing the controversy — though he said the congressman himself thinks Obama could do more to put the issue to rest.

Says Posey:

Opponents of President Bush used the 2000 election results and the court decisions to question the legitimacy of President Bush to serve as President. Opponents of President Obama are raising the birth certificate issue as a means of questioning his eligibility to serve as President. Neither of these situations are healthy for our Republic. This bill, by simply requiring such documentation for future candidates for President will remove this issue as a reason for questioning the legitimacy of a candidate elected as President.

You can read the full text of the bill here. It echoes the concerns of the fringe movement that believes, without evidence, that Obama is somehow foreign and ineligible to be president. They're unlikely to be satisfied by this legislation, though: By requiring that candidates submit "a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate" it doesn't actually satisfy the fringe, which claims that the official copy which is the only document the state of Hawaii will release is not sufficient.

Posey's spokesman, George Cecala, seemed to reference that line of reasoning when asked whether Posey believes Obama is in fact eligible to be president.

"I think he’s willing to take the president’s word for it," Cecala said. "If the president wanted to put an end to the whole thing, he could order Hawaii to release the authentic birth certificate. That’s up to him."

www.politico.com...

"If the president wanted to put an end to the whole thing, he could order Hawaii to release the authentic birth certificate.





[edit on 073131p://bFriday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Lots and lots of discussion on this subject on previous threads and as there is nothing new here ...why dont we wait till any news breaks.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh and lots of counter arguments to OP's statements there too.




[edit on 13-3-2009 by sueloujo]

Why do you feel so compelled to defend Obama? The lengths you have gone. Are you on the payroll?

The one simple thing Obama could do to put it to rest....... He will not do.

That is what you need to find out. Everything else is just air. And never mind suggesting that "he doesn't have to" or "why should he" etc etc etc blah blah blah.

The position he holds (president) is reason enough. Never mind what the law says, its vague at best. This is what some of the people want, and maybe they are republicans or people who don't really like him. But that's is his problem because he is their president to.

So to me this is not about the law, its about him respecting the people and the position he holds end of story.

Originally posted by PowerSlave
Why do you feel so compelled to defend Obama?

We could also go so far as to ask why fringers continue to believe in these conspiracies despite the overwhelming evidence as opposed. For me Im here to debate and argue for Obama. For to question why I defend Obama could be the same for me to question why folks continue to buy into this conspiracy. Its a moot.

The lengths you have gone. Are you on the payroll?

This is always what happens when fringers are cornered with actual evidence, they then attempt to label those who refuse to buy into this garbage as "campaign disinfo agents". A common tactic to move off topic.

No im not on a payroll... jeeze, and even if I was, even if half the folks who buy this garbage and spread it all over are on a payroll, it all comes down to evidence and constitutional standing.

Now tell me why folks go to such lengths to continue to deny whats been put infront of them with nothing to show for it but the same one lined comments? Is it because of his middle name? Is it because he is not typical american as potrayed on the screen? Maybe its years of been told how big and bad those liberals are? I think thats an even more important question.

The one simple thing Obama could do to put it to rest....

Simple? The man has gone to great length to show his authenticated birth certificate and got the state and health officials to confirm it, never got a hint of question from his rival opponents as the majority of america, accepting for the limbaugh and core conservative crowd that have never bothered to give him an equal chance.... simple? What is "simple" about convincing the fringe minded who will hate him regardless?

You come to me with simple? Nothing is simple with the rightwing fringe if your not a "conservative with rightwing christian values"

And again, you and the rest here have come to me with nothing but character assassination and the stubborn "i dont believe, I dont want to hear it" comments. Either you choose carry the burden of truth in this Republic of ours if you well and truly believe this conspiracy or you have no standing in demanding anything.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


I have been through just about every thread on here regarding this subject. Even swapped a few posts with you. I have seen the evidence for both sides and have searched it myself.

The time I have spent on it was to discover what truths I could find in either direction. Since I am not a US citizen nor do I live in the US, I am not associated with either party and frankly have no preference.

The conclusion I have come to is what I just posted. Release it for everyones sake. Obama will have to go to greater lengths still for whatever suits against him still remain. He could have simply complied and avoided all of them.

In winning these cases what can Obama claim victory of? Nothing of moral conscience as I see it. Things could have been different though.

mr. obama please release your student records from Occidental, Harvard and Columbia. Surely the reason you will not release these records isn't because you indicated in writting you were born in Kenya and applied for and were given foreign grants, loans and scholarships in the U.S.

Surely the reason mr. obama you have not released your medical records is that you put down you were born in Kenya to recieve free medical care in The United States Of America. All Presidents starting with President Kennedy have released there medical records to the public. We The People only ask for 5 days to review your student transcripts and medical records. Remember you promised We The People 5 days to review the latest stimulus package and you did not fullfill your promise of doing so to us, but We The People will fullfill our promise to you to review your medical and student records and give them back to you.

Originally posted by PowerSlave
The conclusion I have come to is what I just posted. Release it for everyones sake.

Everyone? Im sorry the fringe aint everyone. Maybe in the conspiracy world they are just about "everyone" but certainly not in the real world. In the real world they hold no standing. If you had just understood my prior posts before I indicated this issue with Obama goes beyond the birth certificate. It really doesnt matter if Obama goes so far as to release the long form that is a copy of the shorter form in law, there will always be the issue with Obama by the fringe. Theres no satisfying them.

There will always be some whacko conspiracy brought out by the rightwing fringe regarding Obama. To argue that yet again another release of something else is going to change their minds is utter nonsense. There will be hate regardless. There will be excuses, regardless. Kudos to the administration to completely snob off these folk and their forks and fires. I dont think that kind of mentality deserves to be heard.

Obama will have to go to greater lengths still for whatever suits against him still remain

What lengths exactly? It appears every lawsuit so far has been struck down. Really now, as demonstrated by some of the replies here these folks lack any legal or realistic standing in the conspiracy. Its a matter of issue of other matters with him, the birth cert conspiracy is just a cover of that fact.

Power slave you could argue all you want but on either side, the rightwing fringers and the left wing fringers, there will always be hatred. No release of anything more is going to change that. Why I am still posting the facts? Because I just love to expose how hollow these accusations really are whether or without support. Still no legal or factual constitutional arguements. Dissappointing

SG, don't worry. These right wing nutjobs are just that. They had no problem with supposed 9/11 hijackers being interviewed by BBC years after the attacks thus proving they weren't one of the hijackers. They have no problem with building built to take plane hits falling in their footprints after firefighters reported bombs going off. They ignore that OBL stopped doing videos after it was pointed out that the guy wasn't OBL. Nope, they dance around a buring cross in their bedsheets shouting about a black man in the white house.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


No, I'll tell you what the "Damn shame" is... The fact that you don't know the difference between a Certificate of Live Birth and Birth Certificate and the fact that you don't have the same respect for the Constitution as you do for the Democrats! THAT, friend, is the "Damn shame"!

The very fact that you and your ilk choose to ignore such an egregious offense against the citizens of this country and it's founding document, The Constitution, is strong indictaor why this country is sinking into the abyss! Wake Up!

Oh, and by the way... it is VAULT copy, not "fault" copy. There's a chance your argument might hold water if you had even an inkling of a clue as to what you are talking about. Put the down the koolaid, remove head from posterior and look further into the matter before commenting.

[edit on 14-3-2009 by kozmo]