I recently had a creepy experience with a born-again Christian that opened up a can full of memories in similar experiences.

A couple weeks ago i was at a educational technology conference. I ran into a very upbeat and friendly fiberoptics saleswoman, we hung out for a good part of day checking out all the latest greatest gadgets and workshops. At some point later in the day we ended up talking about science teachers at catholic schools... and i shared how i would fell really uneasy being in a position where i had to cover creationism along side evolution and added that i thought the best place for such a theory would be in a theology or philosophy class. Well then everything changed. She immediately inquired about my faith, which i explained seesaws on a scale of deist/agnostic/atheist depending on my mood/outlook at any given moment. She enthusiastically offered to drive me to her megachurch that night which was a 3-4 hour drive away, chicago to milwaukee. When i gracefully declined the offer she handed me her card and told me that i could call her anytime and that i am in her prayers. It was as if i went from being her buddy to best friend cripple within seconds.

Which reminded me of my first two months at college. I was standing in line at the school's book store and some kids from the school striked up a conversation with me. As soon as they fished out of me that i was on the fence. I had three instant "best friends". They were calling me everyday to go 'hang out' at their church sponsored socials, until one day i started calling them on their game, at which point them went off on some righteous high ground tirade that ended with a promise that they would all pray for me. Which i thought to myself "more like you'll prey on me". Needless to say i lost all my new 'friends' over night.

And there were many more examples in between that have left me with the conclusion that whether it be conscious or unconscious there is for lack of a better metaphor a dracula-like complex going on for these people... christains thirsting for nonchristian's blood much like they thirst after jesus's. I find this all very peculiar and disturbing, to be used as spiritual meat. The feeling i was left with was a sense of violation and distrust.

I'd like to know how such supposedly unconditionally loving people justify their hypocritically deceptive actions. In terms of conspiracy, i think everyone of these evangelistic orgs have a hidden agenda that they draft their congregation into proselytizing. No wonder all these slick hip megachurches are sprouting up everywhere.

Heheh...I don't know about you, but for me, it intrigues me when I meet someone in real life who is willing to talk their beliefs with me. That is something so rare nowadays. People seem to think it is impolite to discuss religion, and so they sweep it under, and seem to hide it away. Besides, it feels nice when you get the occasional person who actually seems to want to help you out by pointing you to their religion (however misguided one may think them to be).

It is even more fun when the person is willing to discuss and answer questions about religion. So....yeah. If I was in your situation, I'd pounce on these Dracula's Christians .

Having been a former Christian, I can relate to what you said. It is one of the reasons I left, I could not stand the hyprocrisy.

But...I understand the brain washing process. I truly believed I was doing a work that was promoted by Jesus. My motives were good and meaningful as it is with many. There are those who have a very superior self-righteous attitude, and it shows.

Ironically, they cannot see the branch in their eye. The more evangelical a religion is, the more emotional, and I feel; blinded, or easily led they are.

I certainly believe in a God or Gods, religion did not take that from me. The further I have moved away from religion - over 12 years now, the more free and more connected to God I feel.

As Carl Marx said, "Religion is the opium of the masses." How many are able to stand on their own two feet without a crutch? Most can't. The irony? What does GOD have to do with any of it?

The agenda is two-fold.

First, the more that have "committed themselves" to a church, the more money the church can coax from people.

Second, if there is an issue the "higher ups" want seen in some given light (i.e., want to manipulate people into having a given "opinion") the more that are in the church, the more they can influence.

Although... The Agenda (as opposed to the agenda (no cap)) is much deeper than that. But the agenda serves the Agenda.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

The further I have moved away from religion - over 12 years now, the more free and more connected to God I feel.

I can relate. I believe that many, many Christians mean well. I guess some want "brownie points" and some really mean well and want to "save your soul" and don't want to see any one go to "hell." Now that I've moved away from that movement, I absolutely feel more connected to God; because I choose to - not because I'm frightened into it. I do believe that there is a higher source. People call it different names. Anyway, I just think that many Christians do mean well, but they are people, like all of us; some don't mean well and some make mistakes.

I think christianity is kind of like training wheels. You can leave when you're ready, and when you do, you ride the bike with much more skill. If riding the bike is having a connection with God that is.

What if there ISN'T a Single Creator of the ENTIRE flipping universe (or at least one that has omniscience over human affairs), and it could be reasonably enough proven so? The only way I can see to accomplish that is or would be for us to make Contact with a markedly (enough) more enlightened-advanced species that would show we Earthlings that they're no farther along in proving the existence of a Single Supreme Being than we are.

An enlightened enough people would never initiate Contact with those who are too barbarous-vampiric. (There are many other activities besides proselytizing that are vampiric, of course).

You seem to be talking about Christians that belong to Corporate Religion as I like to call it.

A lot of us only follow the Bible and really don't agree with these organized/corporate religions (just look at what organized religions have done in the name of god).

I say you can tell a Religion by it's fruits. In other words, what have they done in the past? What are they doing in the present? And where will this lead them?

If you truly are open to a relationship with God, just open your Bible and your Mind up, he'll show you the actual Truth.

God Bless



[edit on 13-3-2009 by B.A.C.]

Yes thank you and may Budda Bless you.

As for organized group campaigns or missions, again the same approach is at play.

Help third-world country families in addressing some of their basic fundamental needs; shelter, food, clean water and then when their trust and gratitude is gained, out comes the bible.

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
Yes thank you and may Budda Bless you.

As for organized group campaigns or missions, again the same approach is at play.

Help third-world country families in addressing some of their basic fundamental needs; shelter, food, clean water and then when their trust and gratitude is gained, out comes the bible.

Maybe you should form an Atheist group to do the same thing. You can pull out Darwin's Origin Of Species and teach them that

I appreciate the humor BAC

Well for the fun of it and potential insight gained from such an inquiry, i'll take your hypothetical to the test.

For starters the Christian's story is a very very... very hard sell. Which in acknowledging, I can see why they go to such desperate under handed means to seduce others to cut off all reasonable critical thinking in this arena of inquiry. Note: Jesus is a superhero created for an audience of antiquity, today he could have his own comic book hero series.

On the other hand the story of Evolution is a very easy sell and therefore does not require any emotional black mail to get others to believe/understand/see. To add i think all peoples of faith as well as no faith can see Evolution as more then just story, but provable fact.

So in closing, i think it's safe to say that an agnostic/atheist who goes out of their way to help others without a billy club or carrot dangled in front of their head... is by far more of a saint then any individual labeled as a saint throughout history. To give of one's self without any expectation of punishment or reward is the ideal of altruism and by far and beyond what is coined as 'christ-like' or 'angel'.


[edit on 14-3-2009 by The All Seeing I]

I absolutely feel more connected to God; because I choose to - not because I'm frightened into it. I do believe that there is a higher source.

I totally agree. To me it means "freedom."

"Freedom" to accept the facts that explain evolution, and "freedom" to bridge the necessary gaps with a higher power and to not be threatened by it.

"Freedom" to not fall into any box or dogma that supports any human comfort zone of thinking.

As the OP said; not having to drink the blood of mankind in order to support my beliefs and to make them real by pushing it down another person's throat. For there is no judgment! I don't have to appease any group in their thinking or promotion.

As Martha Stewart would say: "It's a good thing!"

Originally posted by The All Seeing I

I'd like to know how such supposedly unconditionally loving people justify their hypocritically deceptive actions. In terms of conspiracy, i think everyone of these evangelistic orgs have a hidden agenda that they draft their congregation into proselytizing. No wonder all these slick hip megachurches are sprouting up everywhere.

Hrm... this is where you have it wrong, many self proclaimed Christians will not subscribe to unconditional love. Agape maybe, but for some reason they love to think that God hates sin... where as hate is too strong of a word. Sorry that you must go through such things.

Speaking of unconditional love in these terms.. Fred Phelps comes to mind.

Here's a great documentary on him, his family and church,
appropriately called Hatemongers (if you watch all 11 parts you'll see why):

Google Video Link

Note/reminder: this is clip one of eleven.

Gives a whole new meaning to 'love the sinner and not the sin'.

[edit on 14-3-2009 by The All Seeing I]

Well, I got doorknocked by a child preacher last week (proud parent stands in the background), so I felt somewhat harsh telling her I wasn't interested. I do worry, now, if they use children, won't rejections play sort of differently in their minds?

Doorknocking they will encounter people who wouldn't dream of joining their faith - for the same reason that, standing there at a stranger's door THEY wouldn't dream of suddenly converting to the stranger's faith. How does knocking on a door change that? But for a child inculcated with the belief that anyone who rejects them is rejecting Jesus, I think there should be a law moved to ban doorknocking by child preachers.


My feeling is that organized christianity is imploding and is responding to this disintegrative effect by becoming a recruiting organiztion which activities impart a sense of identity.

In spiritual terms, though, christianity has certainly survived thousands of years and will survive thousands more I would suggest. What the churches are grappling with is the fact that its very adaptability and integrative qualities as personal belief DO NOT necessarily translate in to joining a church.

Let me get this straight, are you trying to tell me, that they are sending kids out to sell jesus door to door with the parent(s) chaperoning from the street curb?

Sounds like some sort of a hybrid mormon "trick or treat" technique. Trick being the use of cuteness on the prospect and treat being a conversion?

I don't know about you, but i'd be more annoyed/pissed-off at a church who's members were sending out their misguided kids to do their dirty work.

I would file child abuse charges with the city and state.

Then again i'm someone who thinks sunday schools should be outlawed.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by The All Seeing I]

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
I appreciate the humor BAC

Well for the fun of it and potential insight gained from such an inquiry, i'll take your hypothetical to the test.

For starters the Christian's story is a very very... very hard sell. Which in acknowledging, I can see why they go to such desperate under handed means to seduce others to cut off all reasonable critical thinking in this arena of inquiry. Note: Jesus is a superhero created for an audience of antiquity, today he could have his own comic book hero series.

On the other hand the story of Evolution is a very easy sell and therefore does not require any emotional black mail to get others to believe/understand/see. To add i think all peoples of faith as well as no faith can see Evolution as more then just story, but provable fact.

So in closing, i think it's safe to say that an agnostic/atheist who goes out of their way to help others without a billy club or carrot dangled in front of their head... is by far more of a saint then any individual labeled as a saint throughout history. To give of one's self without any expectation of punishment or reward is the ideal of altruism and by far and beyond what is coined as 'christ-like' or 'angel'.

[edit on 14-3-2009 by The All Seeing I]

I agree, I don't respect people "labeled saints" or otherwise (God is no respecter of persons). I also agree that Evolution is a fact, MiE at least.

A true Christian should be thinking of anything BUT himself when he helps people. Or it isn't genuine.

Oh, I think there is a comic book series out, he has a cape (well, cloak) and everything! There's 66 issues in the series. Atheists call it the Bible


[edit on 15-3-2009 by B.A.C.]