Did Nazis invent the Atomic Bomb?

reply to
post by lunarminer

Both the Germans and the Japanese had advanced weapons programs. All of this information came out during the 80's and 90's well after most of the witnesses were dead.

I never heard of the German reactor, the German uranium shipments to Japan, the Japanese uranium mines, the heavy water plant in North Korea, the rumor of a successful bomb test, a Japanese bomb design. All of this came after I was in college.

At the risk of repeating what we already know, keep in mind that uranium in its natural state - yellow cake - is 99.7% U238 and the isotope U235 - the fissionable one - is 0.3%. Because it is chemically impossible to separate the two, the world was at an impasse.

The US choose to use the gaseous magnetic method. Other methods were suggested but this seemed the most likely to work. We now know that the centrifuge method also works and costs a lot less.

The major problem with the gaseous magnetic system is it needs so much electricity. The Army built the largest building under one roof in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, in which to carry on the process. Aside: copper was in short supply, so the Army called on the US Mint to furnish about 10,000 tons of silver to be made into wire for the devices. About 1,400 of the devices were connected in series.

The raw uranium was vaporized, injected into the first device and the electricity was turned on. As the vaporized uranium passed through electrically charged membranes, moving from one device to the next, the U235 would come through first. As you repeated the process endlessly, you gradually purified the uranium to a higher level of U235. They say 3% purity is OK for running a power plant but 70% or better purity is needed to make a bomb.

I have posted elsewhere that the US used 10% of ALL the electricity in America to run Oak Ridge. Neither Germany nor Japan had such a supply of electricity. They might well have known how to make a bomb, but they lacked the industrial capacity to purify enough uranium to make bombs.

Heavy Water. Heavy water is chemically the same as regular (light) water, but with the two hydrogen atoms (as in H2O) replaced with deuterium atoms (hence the symbol D2O). Deuterium is an isotope of hydrogen; it has one extra neutron. Thus the deutrium atom consists of one proton and one neutron in the atomic nucleus and one orbiting electron. It is the extra neutron that makes heavy water "heavy", about 10% heavier in fact.

Heavy water is essential to the operation of Canada's nuclear power reactors; used as both a moderator and a heat transfer agent. The function of the moderator is to slow down the emitted neutrons, which increases the fission reaction rate, thus enabling a sustained chain reaction. Ordinary water is also a good moderator, but it absorbs neutrons, which is why light water reactors must use enriched fuel. The use of D2O in CANDUs makes it possible to use non-enriched natural uranium.

Heavy water is produced at Ontario Hydro's heavy water plant 'B' at Tiverton, Ontario. The heavy water is not manufactured, but rather it is extracted from the quantity that is found naturally in lake water. The water is separated through a series of towers, using hydrogen sulphide as an agent. Canada is the world's supplier of heavy water.

It is important to note that heavy water is not radioactive, nor is it dangerous to humans or other life unless ingested in large amounts (it becomes toxic to humans at a level of roughly 10% of their body weight). The deuterium isotope occurs naturally in the ratio 1:4500; thus D2O is found at the level of about 1 in 20 million water molecules. www.sno.phy.queensu.ca...

reply to post by donwhite


I appreciate your position but it is based upon the "official" history that is incomplete at the best.

You imply that Germany and Japan did not have the capability to extract U-235 from the U-238 isotope. I have to disagree with this assumption. Here is a clip from an article on the Japanese program from Wikipedia. I have seen several programs on the History channel that verify this info.

Beginning of the clip

A separate atomic program of the Imperial Japanese Navy was also in progress in 1942.[1] This project, called F-Go, was headed by Prof. Bunsaku Arakatsu, a lecturer at the Kyoto University, who studied under Albert Einstein.[2] Arakatsu built his own cyclotron. His team included Hideki Yukawa, the first Japanese physicist to receive a Nobel Prize in 1949.

The Navy project however took a different path to Nishina's efforts and opted to build gaseous centrifuges. Lieutenant Commander Kitagawa Tetsuzo and Dr Okada Shinzo worked together at Kyoto University to develop a gaseous centrifuge. Rear Admiral Nitta Shigeru employed Hokushine Electric, a company specialized in making ship's gyros and Tokyo Keiki Electric to develop a high speed gaseous centrifuge, spinning at speeds up to 100,000-150,000 rpm. Even by today's standards these were extremely fast centrifuges and possibly superior to anything anywhere in the world until the improved Zippe-type centrifuge of the 1960s which still only manages 90,000 rpm. By all accounts the Imperial Japanese Navy developed the fastest gaseous centrifuges ever invented. A bank of 300 high speed machines could produce enough bomb grade U235 for a bomb in 12 months. These machines were built during WW2 by Sumitomo and located either at Kure, or nearby Hiroshima.

End of the clip

Also, the Japanese developed a working gas diffusion separator at Tokyo University that was destroyed in the bombings. Who knows how many separators they constructed? According to the Wiki article they only needed 300 of their centrifuges. Isn't it interesting that the centrifuges were located at Hiroshima? Since we know that the US cracked the Japanese Naval codes, there is no doubt a strategic reason why we chose to drop our first atomic bomb on Hiroshima.

reply to post by donwhite



Roggendorf bei Melk, Lower Austria (Google Maps)

Enns River (sorry spelling, my bad!)

As to the mainstream thing; After securing neutron-moderator technology and scientists from the Nazis (in return for asylum and immunity?), it would have been in the Americans best interest to keep this transaction a secret!

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


Actually, the bomb Nazis are trying to make is designed to contaminate or irradiate a certain place making it uninhabitable.

They where planning to drop it on a water table somewhere around New York that would cause the bomb to go critical and go boom after a period of time no stronger than that of Chernobyl accident. It wasn't designed to produce a kiloton explosion, more like an improvised nuclear reactor rigged to go Chernobyl

Sorry I have no link atm.

reply to post by lunarminer

Yes, the uranium was not fully enriched to the weapons grade needed to make a bomb, or at least that is what we are told. However it only takes a few kilos of enriched U-235 to make a bomb and the Germans were delivering tons of the stuff to Japan.

Purification is not enriching. We can agree that uranium in its processed form a/k/a yellow cake, is about 0.3% U235. And 99.7% U238. In this context we are only talking ‘purified’ from the pitchblende ore which contains uranium along with many other unwanted materials. Like any ore. Using the initial chemical based purification process that is about as pure as it gets. That is what I think the Germans shipped to the Japanese. Purified ORE.

I think there was a small pitchblende deposit in Czechoslovakia. I believe our supply of pitchblende ore came mainly from the Belgian Congo. Aside: Purification of most anything to the 85th percentile is not all that hard. It is the doing of the LAST 15% that is difficult, time consuming and highly cost intensive. End.

As I said before, the history of the nuclear weapons programs during WWII that we have been told is wrong. Both the Germans and the Japanese had advanced weapons programs. All of this information came out during the 80's and 90's well after most of the witnesses were dead. All of this came out after I was in college.

That, the time delay, should make you very suspicious. You can hide papers but you can’t hide Oak Ridge, Hanford or Los Alamos. Not Germany, Japan or Russia (USSR) had the industrial resources to make atom bombs in the 1941-1945 time frame.

Prior to 1941, no one had enriched uranium to more than 0.3%. Keep in mind that 3/10ths of one percent is 3/1000th part. Three percent on the other hand, is three parts in 100. Ten times the purity of naturally occurring uranium. Enriched! That will get you into the power generating business. No one was into that level EXCEPT the United States prior to 1945. The Germans, the Japanese and the Russians were all working at the 3/1000th level of purity.

Did those three have facilities working on further enriching uranium? Yes, all three had such work underway. Was it funded as we funded the Manhattan Project. Absolutely not. Did any of those three powers have the resources needed to turn academic theory into industrial achievement? Absolutely not.

So what’s the story about anyway? I think these claims about the Nazi and Japanese are mistaken. If not outright fabrications. I think it happened because early on we did not understand the significance between ‘purify’ and ‘enrich.’ The first is comparatively easy to do but the second requires a mighty effort! Look at the FACTS. We did not find an Oak Ridge or Hanford in Germany. Nor in Japan or Korea. We also know that the Russians - equipped with the plans from 1945 onward - could not make a bomb - or device - until 1949. Four years after the fact.

For more PROOF, look at how long it took North Korea to make a device. More or less 10 or 20 years. Look at Israel. They got their plutonium from France (and that in turn most likely came from the US). Look at India and Pakistan. We do not know for sure if any of those 3 (or 4 counting NK) have deliverable nuclear weapons or not. Disregarding the gamma ray burst over South Africa, we know of NO tests by Israel. (Could be pulling a Saddam on us?) We do know India and Pakistan exploded a DEVICE. We also have said NK exploded a DEVICE. Aside: We also know that South Africa halted its nuclear weapons program but we do not know to what extent it had progressed.

So what is my opinion? As Shakespeare said, “Much ado about nothing.”

It's always been claimed that the Germans had a program to develope atomic weapons, probably at Penamunde. But lacked both the material and the time to succeed. All those bombs raining down everywhere might have had a little something to do with that...

They certainly had the brain power to do it.

The Japanese program never got much beyond the paper stage to the best of my knowlege...much too late and much too little.

Hey, don.

reply to post by Carlthulhu

As to the mainstream thing; After securing neutron-moderator technology and scientists from the Nazis (in return for asylum and immunity?), it would have been in the Americans best interest to keep this transaction a secret!

A lot of people do love a secret. I have never been one of those. In my experience, most secrets are employed more for covering up mistakes than for actually preserving something uniquely useful. I do however, recognize the REAL difference between strategic and tactical.

Example. The US and the UK (and maybe the USSR) agreed strategically to defeat Germany before taking on Japan. But that decision soon became obvious to everyone, including the unlucky General Wainwright on Corregidor. I’m sorry. Unless you are a WW2 buff you would not know the significance of my remark. History: General MacArthur was ordered to leave the Philippines and Gen. Wainwright was left in command. It fell to him to surrender the combined US and Filipino forces to the overwhelming Japanese forces. April, 1942.

Another example. In North Africa, in late 1942, it was no secret there would be a second and decisive battle at el Alamein, a vital railroad junction leading to Egypt (the Suez Canal) from German occupied Lybia, an Italian colony. Strategic. But the order of battle, the various units, their strength and locations were all TOP Secret. Tactically.
en.wikipedia.org...

In physics, and indeed, in any and all of the natural sciences, there are NO secrets. The knowledge is out there in equal amounts for anyone to discover. Nuclear physics dates back at least to the work done by Madame Curie. (1867-1934). See Note 1. The secrets she discovered were out there for anyone to find. There are many cases where two people worked on the same thing without knowledge of the other. Joseph Priestly is given credit in the English speaking world for the discovery of oxygen as an element. But see Note 2. The same OPENNESS applies to inventions as well. See Note 3.

Note 1. Her achievements include the creation of a theory of radioactivity (a term coined by her), techniques for isolating radioactive isotopes, and the discovery of two new elements, polonium and radium. It was also under her personal direction that the world's first studies were conducted into the treatment of neoplasms (cancers), using radioactive isotopes. en.wikipedia.org...

Note2. The discovery of oxygen is usually credited to Swedish chemist Carl Wilhelm Scheele (1742-86) and English chemist Joseph Priestley (1733-1804). The two discovered oxygen at nearly the same time in 1774, working independently of each other. www.chemistryexplained.com...

Note 3. Western Union laboratory reportedly lost Antonio Meucci's working models, and Meucci, who at this point was living on public assistance, was unable to renew the patent after 1874; In March 1876 Alexander Graham Bell, who conducted experiments in the same laboratory where Meucci's materials had been stored, was granted a patent and was thereafter credited with inventing the telephone.

Meucci was recognized as the first inventor of the telephone by the United States House of Representatives in House Resolution 269 dated 11 June 2002. The resolution states that "if Meucci had been able to pay the $10 fee to maintain the caveat (patent) after 1874, no patent could have been issued to Bell." However, this declaration is non-binding and has no legal effect. en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by seagull
It's always been claimed that the Germans had a program to develope atomic weapons, probably at Peenemünde.

They certainly had the brain power to do it.

The Japanese program never got much beyond the paper stage to the best of my knowlege...much too late and much too little.

Hey, don.

To be exact they had a heavy water plant in aushwitz, which was covered up as a "buna-plant". they tested one bomb with about 16 kilos weight close to a little town called Crawinkel. There are eyewhitness-reports claiming that the people there saw weird glowing balls of light, followed by extremely loud banging sounds, which caused nosebleeds and headaches to the civillians living there for months. Believe me the Nazis knew about the Manhatten experiments too, because here in berlin there were atomic bunkers built in the last two years of the war.....why?

there is one more thing i would like to share with anyone, but i don't want to write it here. I have actual proof for my claims, but I need a more secure way to post it......
How could i do this? mybe like Private messages or someting?

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


How do you differentiate an atomic bunker from a regular bunker? The fact that their cities were being pounded night and day by strategic bombers, some carrying huge bombs meant to penetrate hardened structures (like the tallboy and grand slam bombs) might have had something to do with the motivations for building bunkers.

I saw the program about the japanese bomb project.
They certainly developed a working bomb and detonated a test device in north korea between our bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki.
Since the project was under navy control their method of delivery was a remote controlled boat. One of the key scientists was captured by the us and come over here and worked on our bomb program and went on to teach at Ok U i think he is still alive.
They were working on a intercontinetal bomber and had weaponized a whole host of biological and chemical angents.
Three aircraft launching submarines were sent on a mission to bomb san diego with weaponized plague in august of '45.
All three were lost one was sunk by us the other two scuttled and i think one of them has been found.
In china where they tested some of these agents still have outbreaks of some of these diseases to this day.

Ive also done some reading about it from other sources.
OH My we got lucky

we didnt beat the japanese they stopped fighting because the Emporer ordered it so.
They had been systematically moving military industrial production to north korea. They still had more than a million men in korea and manchuria.
That is how north korea became such a military power in such a short time. The russians captured whole factories ready to go.
The japanes also had started to deploy jet aircraft and had started to build underground airbases that could launch attacks on allied invasion shipping with only a 10 minute flight time.
One of the weapons labs had developed and tested some sort of energy weapon, there is even a photograph of it out there some where.
Its physical apperance and the way it looked when fired is supposed to be the basis for the dish antennaed weapon vehicles in the early godzilla movies.
The US naval intelligence initial post surrender survey of japanese capabilities, was only recently de-classified.
And it paints a pretty scary picture of where they were technologicaly speaking. They were far more advanced than the public was lead to believe. In the axis Italian scientist did the theroretical work, the germans applied those theories and perfected the concepts and the japanese mastered how to manufacture them.


If hitler hadnt jumped the gun and invaded poland five years early and hadnt gone insane with "the final solution" The axis powers would have quietly built a technologicaly superior force and would have soundly beaten the complacent allies, before they could have reacted.

My perspective of WW2 really changed after I saw a documentary about professor Karl Haushofer, the true architect of the national socialist movement.
but that is a long story with spies, background alliences, Allistair Crowley
and british plans for an invasion of north america in the 20's, that morphed into the attack on pearl harbor.

You know as far as a german bomb program, there was a huge under ground facility built in germany at the end of the war, it now resides in the middle of a huge german army tank and artillery gunnery range.
It was hugely expensive and consumed thousands of people building it, here the wierd part it was defended till they surrended to us forces, the capturing forces never really explored the bunker complex and after it was inspected by army intel it was sealed and has been sealed ever since.
Some of the theories about whats in it are that it holds a vast nazi treasure, of course.
UFO's or impossibly advanced aircraft, flying saucers.
The amber room after it was looted from russia, again more treasure.
Some kind of doomsday device.
Or a atom bomb facility maybe.
The german government has rejected all attempts explore this facility that was sealed 65 years ago.
Ill try to find out which base it is on and more about it.

I believe the premier explosives detonator of the era was known as Fulminate Of Mercury. I have absolutely no idea how the chemistry worked.

It is also used in the manufacture of batteries, which would have been every bit as valuable during the war as the detonators.

The basic components of explosives and batteries are fairly common, but the Mercury was the exotic element that made the rest work. A secure supply of Mercury would have been critical to being able to sustain war production.

Originally posted by punkinworks
You know as far as a german bomb program, there was a huge under ground facility built in germany at the end of the war, it now resides in the middle of a huge german army tank and artillery gunnery range.
It was hugely expensive and consumed thousands of people building it, here the wierd part it was defended till they surrended to us forces, the capturing forces never really explored the bunker complex and after it was inspected by army intel it was sealed and has been sealed ever since.
Some of the theories about whats in it are that it holds a vast nazi treasure, of course.
UFO's or impossibly advanced aircraft, flying saucers.
The amber room after it was looted from russia, again more treasure.
Some kind of doomsday device.
Or a atom bomb facility maybe.
The german government has rejected all attempts explore this facility that was sealed 65 years ago.
Ill try to find out which base it is on and more about it.

This Area is called "Jonastal", it's in thuringia, and holds a complex referred to as "SIII". I fully agree with your statement except for the fact that the german army has partialy used this area as a "Shooting range", and the other half has been a big tourist attraction in the last years.
Pictures here

well if project 'paperclip' was anything to go by pretty much a majority of all the modern day technology we have now comes from the introduction of German Scientists to America after the World Wars.....

That including the atomic bombs and Rocket propulsion......

"Child never born, mother never pregnant." That's the results of the investigation team sent to check the German bomb program.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
"Child never born, mother never pregnant." That's the results of the investigation team sent to check the German bomb program.

They did find things....there are whitness reports of people living around jonastal, and they stated that a day after the allied arrived there was a lot of locomotion going on. (being army trucks and red cross trucks going to the site and transporting a few dozen document-storage boxes a day, for about a week straight.)

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
"Child never born, mother never pregnant." That's the results of the investigation team sent to check the German bomb program.

They did find things....there are whitness reports of people living around jonastal, and they stated that a day after the allied arrived there was a lot of locomotion going on. (being army trucks and red cross trucks going to the site and transporting a few dozen document-storage boxes a day, for about a week straight.)

Red Cross trucks in a war zone. Who would have imagined such a thing.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
"Child never born, mother never pregnant." That's the results of the investigation team sent to check the German bomb program.

They did find things....there are whitness reports of people living around jonastal, and they stated that a day after the allied arrived there was a lot of locomotion going on. (being army trucks and red cross trucks going to the site and transporting a few dozen document-storage boxes a day, for about a week straight.)

Red Cross trucks in a war zone. Who would have imagined such a thing.

It wasn't a warzone anymore as far as I know, when the allied found sIII in august 45'

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


It was still under martial law. And the military had a heavy presence there, so Army trucks and Red Cross trucks (which were very likely just military ambulances) are no surprise at all. Being in the area doesn't indicate much of anything, in other words.