reply to post by Carlthulhu
There are several historians in Germany and Austria that have been questioning America’s move towards the 'Alpenfestung.'
The German “Alpenfestung” equals a national redoubt. Generally an area where the remnants of a nation’s forces can withdraw for a final battle.
Generally in a region chosen for its favor of defense over offense. The defender’s hope to gain some concession from the conquerors before
Patton was halfway to Berlin and was ordered to turn around to destroy a supposed heavy Nazi fortification in the Austrian Alps, that was more kin to
gross exaggeration, and disinfo-propaganda by the Germans. None of the allied forces believed in this BS, but Patton followed orders.
Good generals always follow orders. But that should come as no surprise. Patton might have reached Berlin by early April 1945 but for this delay.
OTOH, the Russians are said to have lost 500,000 men in the Battle of Berlin which the Soviets wanted to do by themselves. The US lost NONE. I cannot
fault either the US, the Germans or the USSR on this one.
The non-mainstream historians did their research, and found out that apparently a small troop of Americans crossed the Ens, and met a Nazi SS leader
at a secret location now identified as the 'Quarz' Bunker in Roggendorf, by Melk.
I could not find the “Ens the Americans crossed.” I did find the EMS River, in NW Germany. A river, 335 km long, rising in the Teutoburger Wald
and flowing NW into the North Sea near Emden.
Roggendorf is a municipality in the Nordwestmecklenburg district, in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, generally north of Berlin towards the Baltic Sea.
Quarz Bunker. Hitler had grandiose plans for his bunkers. From 1940 to 1944, there were over 1,000 in Berlin. Included was an extensive network of
underground tunnels, with one running from the government sector in Mitte to the airport in Templehof. The 7 km tunnel connected to the famous
As to the meeting between US forces and SS representatives, I know not of that but anything is possible at that stage of the War. Hitler committed
suicide April 30 and Adm. Donitz surrendered unconditionally May 7. Apparently nothing came of the meeting, if indeed there ever was one, and so it is
just one more historical anomaly that meant nothing and cannot be verified. It's just another "what-if" story.
Aside: Karl Dönitz (1891 - 1980) was a German naval officer who served in the Imperial German Navy during World War I and commanded the German Navy
(Kriegsmarine) during the second half of World War II. In the final days of the war, Dönitz became the President (Reichspräsident) of Nazi Germany.
He held this position for about 20 days after the death of Adolf Hitler. After the war, Dönitz was convicted of war crimes at the Nuremberg Trials
and served ten years in prison. en.wikipedia.org...
Non-mainstream historians are that - non-mainstream - for a very good reason. They do not meet ordinary journalistic requirements for sources,
evidence or sustainable conclusions. Any non-mainstream historian can become mainstream by offering convincing proof what he is alleging meets the
standard criteria required to be a mainstream historian.
Following World War 2, the National Police Gazette
carried a number of stories describing how the high ranking Nazis had escaped to South
America. It also featured stories about the Nazi sub that sank with a load of gold. The NPG was old, having been founded in 1845, but it fell on hard
times and became mostly what is called a tabloid today. As in National Enquirer. It discontinued publication in 1982.
There was the long running story about the submarine laden with gold destined to Sao Palo. It was supposedly sunk just after departing Germany. It may
be the same sub which is the subject of Norway's government in 2009. The Nazi submarine is loaded with mercury - quicksilver - that sank off its
shores in 1945 that poses an environmental hazard.
The U-864 German sub was torpedoed in the North Sea on February 9, 1945 by the British submarine HMS Venturer. All 73 sailors on board were killed.
Broken in two, the vessel now lies on the seabed at a depth of 150 meters. The wreck has been leaking several kilo of mercury a year, an insoluble
pollutant. We may soon learn if this is the fabled gold bearing sub.
What little evidence there still is, seems to point towards an agreement reached between the US and the Nazis at 'Quarz' to go into US POW status
which violated the agreement reached with the Russians (who were to own any POWs south of the Ens river.
At the risk of repeating myself, you said it all with “what little evidence there is” and it turns out there is no evidence. Yes, the US was
looking for anyone in Germany who worked in theoretical fields of all sorts. And looking back, we won that race with the Soviets!
Aside: The Yalta Conference was the last wartime meeting of the Big 3. It ran from February 4, 1945 to February 11, 1945 at the Black Sea resort,
Yalta. Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin met there to draw the boundaries for post-War Europe. Roosevelt died on April 12, just 60 days after the end of
Yalta is a city in Crimea, southern Ukraine, on the north coast of the Black Sea. The Yalta Conference was held at the Livadia Palace. The population
of Yalta was 80,500 in the 2001 census.
The Potsdam Conference was held at Cecilienhof, the home of Crown Prince Wilhelm Hohenzollern, in Potsdam, Germany, from July 16 to August 2, 1945.
Japan surrendered August 15, not altogether unconditionally as we say. The paper work was signed in Tokyo Bay on September 2. This was the last
conference of the War leaders.
By this time Truman had replaced Roosevelt and in the middle of the Conference, Clement Atlee replaced Churchill who lost the election largely due to
his opposition to the National Health Service. Mainly, Potsdam was intended to discuss the re-establishment of the nations conquered by Germany,
primarily in eastern Europe.
[edit on 3/14/2009 by donwhite]