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The "pre-tribulation" rapture is a one way ticket to hell

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posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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As a general rule, I only talk about god with my sister. (She's a brilliant woman who's been absolutely transformed- not that I saw anything wrong to start with- by an experience she attributes to God and Jesus.) I talk about religion though with EVERYBODY. My husband often kicks me under tables for too much politics and religion talk and then quietly says later that those are off limits for polite society. I laugh and say that we should be talking politics and religion with everybody- one controls man's physical self while the other controls the spiritual. I provided this only for background but have serious questions:

Working on the assumption that there is a god, who can be sure of any of the thoughts of god? How does anyone know that their way isn't a corrupt thought? For example, I tell my sis that my "god" requires me to be absolutely free and grow as a human. For the sake of our arguments, I call "the devil" government and organized religion and tell her that both take us from where we should be headed. Naturally, I hear often that I should rather accept Jesus as the only path to God because I might be wrong to think I can make my own way toward understanding. She says she fears Hell for me. I tell her that I think God can present to different people in different ways. I explain that God presented to her through a Bible and Jesus and to me in the interconnectedness of the conspiracies that bring pain to man's spirit and psyche. (Meanwhile she thinks I'm too distrustful of people and by extension God because of my involvement in researching things...) I tell her that I think Jesus likely found the same truth- you can get to God on your own- and his message was bastardized by those who wished to maintain a stranglehold on man.

I tell her that we are heading to the same destination but using different roadways and I again hear that I'm going to burn. When I ask about other monotheistic faiths believing as fervently as she, mention that it's rather arrogant to think that she has the market cornered on God's truth, and mention that maybe it was the corruption of men who convoluted the truth into any religion, she asks me how the devil (her devil is a Biblical one) would profit from such a thing. Here I always think I have her to a point that she can understand me without walking away from her faith. I explain that God is everything good, the Devil is evil. All that we need to do to be enveloped by God is love each other. The "Devil" profits by throwing that one way street sign into the mix and we have wars and hatred that trump anything that skin pigments and languages can bring about. And then she tells me we are arguing two different things. Arghhhhh!

Anyway, sorry for the rant laced questions but our latest conversation was today and lasted two hours. We are due to talk again in a couple of hours. I love her so much but damn, I can't get her to understand that we are arguing over hiccups in a plan. Any thoughtful suggestions?




posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by jd140
...The only sin that I can think of that is a one way, no second chance sin is suicide. ...


Can you show me the actual bible verse that says that suicide is the only unpardonable sin? That's Catholic Dogma, not reality.

Mark 3:28-30
28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.


Here is a good webpage if you want to know more. net-burst.net...



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by jd140
...The only sin that I can think of that is a one way, no second chance sin is suicide. ...


Can you show me the actual bible verse that says that suicide is the only unpardonable sin? That's Catholic Dogma, not reality.

Mark 3:28-30
28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.


Here is a good webpage if you want to know more. net-burst.net...



Sure all sins are forgiveable if you repent them.

The thing that makes suicide an unforgettable sin is that once you commit it you are unable to repent.

Thou shalt not kill includes yourself you know.

So while it does not say in the bible if you kill yourself. It does not have to, if you kill you commited a sin, you repent in your heart, you can be forgiven.

If that person you kill is you, that leaves repenting off the table as you are not able to.


Common sense + Bible= The truth.



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by jd140

Sure all sins are forgiveable if you repent them.

The thing that makes suicide an unforgettable sin is that once you commit it you are unable to repent.

Thou shalt not kill includes yourself you know.

So while it does not say in the bible if you kill yourself. It does not have to, if you kill you commited a sin, you repent in your heart, you can be forgiven.

If that person you kill is you, that leaves repenting off the table as you are not able to.


Common sense + Bible= The truth.


Actualy the unpardonable SIN is to deny the holy spirit access to yourself during the time of tribulation.

christiananswers.net...



And the actual commandment is "thou shall not murder"...

And even after death, during the first resurrection all will be given a chance.

Rev20:12-13


12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 05:24 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.
There is no 'get out of suffering free' card.
That notion is completely unscriptural.


Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Colossians3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

1Thessalonians5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Persecution of Christians comes from Satan. All through the New Testament, Christians are warned that by following Christ, they will face persecution. The tribulation, however, is not persecution but the wrath of God.


The rapture cult was started by Nelson Darby in the 1800s.
He was a failed Anglican Priest when he started the cult.


Church fathers who taught the doctrine of imminency and the rapture:

Papias (60-130)

Clement of Rome (90-100)

The Sherpherd of Hermas (96-150)

Ignatius of Antioch (98-117)

Barnabas (100)

The Didache (100-160)

Justin Martyr (110-165)

The Epistle of Barnabas (117-138)

Irenaeus (120-202)

Tertullian (145-220)

Hippolytus (185-236)

Cyprian (200-250)

Lactantius (260-330)


Victorinus ( Well known by 270 and died in 303 A.D.)
Victorinus wrote a commentary on the book of Revelation. In one place he made an interesting statement that reflects his idea that the church would be removed prior to the tribulation. Of course his ideas were not systematic, and some will argue that he contradicts himself in other places, which may very well be true. But even with such an admission it still serves us well to see that early in the church history someone taught in some sense that God's church could escape the tribulation period by being removed from the earth. His commentary notes in Revelation 6:14 indicate a pre-trib reference of some sort:
"And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up." For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away. "And every mountain and the islands removed from their places intimate that in the last persecution all men departed from their places; that is, that the good will be removed, seeking to avoid persecution. Source


Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373)
"Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. Source



'He who endures until the end is saved.'


Yes, the person we refer to as the Antichrist will persecute Christians. There are three groups of saints in the Bible; the Old Testament Saints, The Body of Christ, and the Tribulation Saints. The 144,000 sealed Israelites and those who become Christians during the tribulation are the ones who must endure until the end.

Christians who think they will never have to face persecution are sorely mistaken. We don't know how bad things can get before the tribulation begins.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:02 AM
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Matthew isn't a good place to go to try to prove or disprove the rapture, no matter the timing. The reason for this is that the rapture is for the church, the body of Christ, and the events that are contained in Matthew come before the church started. Jesus only alludes to the rapture twice, once in John and the other in Luke.

In fact, in the Luke passage, Jesus more or less says that he would come back as a groom for his bride [the church]. When you take this statement, study the Jewish wedding feast, and compare it to end times prophecy, it meshes together so well that a pretribulational rapture is the only one that makes sense!

One of the biggest reasons I believe in the pretribulational rapture is because in Revelation, the church appears to be in heaven before John is shown his vision of the tribulation. This is because the 24 elders cast their crowns before Jesus and only the Church gets crowns.

Also, there was talk about the unpardonable sin. I'm just going to say that suicide isn't the unpardonable sin because suicide is simply murder of oneself, and murder is forgivebale. If you've accepted Christ, even if you die with an unrepented for sin, you'll still go to heaven because Christ died for all of our sins when he died--since all of our sins were future.

[edit on 5/11/2009 by octotom]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by darkelf
reply to post by heliosprime
 


I use the term Jew loosly. I mean not only Judah but all of the tribes of Israel (except for the tribe of Dan who is excluded in Revelation).


I think it is worth noting the obvious.

You advocate the Jesuit/Zionist belief in the centrality of the Jews and an imminent rapture of people like yourself.

And your avatar is Dark Elf.

Need I say more.


Originally posted by darkelf

"The tribulation, however, is not persecution but the wrath of God. "


Rev. 11, 12: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!

for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


Rev. 20:4, 5 I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[edit on 11-5-2009 by Salt of the Earth]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by octotom
Matthew isn't a good place to go to try to prove or disprove the rapture, no matter the timing. The reason for this is that the rapture is for the church, the body of Christ, and the events that are contained in Matthew come before the church started. Jesus only alludes to the rapture twice, once in John and the other in Luke.


Matthew is the perfect place to find the answers to the Second Coming and the Tribulation.

Matthew 24:3-51: Jesus disciples asked him, "what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the end of the world?"

Jesus said: 29

Immediately after the tribulation of those days

shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and

then

shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds,...

also the Bible says Jesus is coming at the LAST TRUMP and that when he comes he is going to DESTROY THE ANTICHRIST WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING. This means we will be here as long as the antichrist is here. (II Thes. 2)


Originally posted by octotom

In fact, in the Luke passage, Jesus more or less says that he would come back as a groom for his bride [the church]. When you take this statement, study the Jewish wedding feast, and compare it to end times prophecy, it meshes together so well that a pretribulational rapture is the only one that makes sense!


Yes, the parable of the 10 virgins, all betrothed to the bridegroom, and five of the virgins, whose lamps were once full, had gone dry, and they got shut out. Going dry is very dangerous because you never know when it's your time to go; and if you die dry, you will not make the first resurrection (See Romans 8)

Originally posted by octotom
suicide isn't the unpardonable sin because suicide is simply murder of oneself, and murder is forgivebale. If you've accepted Christ, even if you die with an unrepented for sin, you'll still go to heaven because Christ died for all of our sins when he died--since all of our sins were future.



These are antinomian heresies you repeat, deadly to the soul. The Bible warns repeatedly DO NOT BE DECEIVED, that no murderer, no liar, fornicator, drunkard, etcetera, will enter Heaven. Jesus also taught us to pray the Lord's Prayer, that we forgive others as we expect to be forgiven by God. Jesus taught the parable of the man who was forgiven much and would not forgive, and how

even that which he had been formerly forgiven was taken back

and he was made to pay 10 times over. So not only can your formerly forgiven sins be put back to your account, but your future sins are not forgiven. You are not given a buffet ticket to sin when you are saved. Your sins are forgiven and cleansed at the moment you repent and turn from them, but if you backslide you are in worse shape than you were in the beginning (see the parables Jesus taught of the backslidden and lazy servants, both of whom went to Hell). You are teaching antinomianimsm fairy tales, good to salve the conscience, but deadly to the health of your soul. Keep thinking this way and you will wake up in flames.

Check out Dan Corner's website, the most exhaustive examination and refutation of antinomianism and once saved always saved heresy ever written:

www.evangelicaloutreach.org



[edit on 11-5-2009 by Salt of the Earth]

[edit on 11-5-2009 by Salt of the Earth]www.evangelicaloutreach.org

[edit on 11-5-2009 by Salt of the Earth]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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All impure fantasy. Xtians are the brood of evil itself, the children of the Archons. Thanks to their devout ignorance, they perpetrate the imprisonment of the spirit in flesh.

There is a New Womb awaiting them, for further training and obedience malfeasance...oh, say, about a 1000 yrs. (approx.). This horror, or the Fall of humanity (Lucifer = humanity), is indeed the precipitation into hell...and if you meet any of the thoroughly insane xtians along the way, you will see they function via no-thought (ignorance of), as they have been taught.

Do you see them and their nightmare god (ah-hem) spreading truth and light and love and wisdom upon the wide earth, or ever any such, throughout hsitory? Of course not...they are the most selfish of peoples I meet, day to day: corrupt, ignorant of sharing and goodness, entirely. they don't even like themselves, but hope they will be 'saved' from their evil, for they know not what they do.

Man is the crust of life, the very food of the gods, and they are trapped within an ever-repeating cycle (circle); there is no way out...except one, and that appears obviously impossible. Why? Because the Logos is evil, and your maintained downfall, that's why.

In a new womb, 1000 yrs (its approx) will suffice to reteach the chosen of evil to become empowered of the greatest darkness, whence they will return with their new santanic-like powers, and lock down all for an even greater endless-cycle: no spirit-door out (hard as it is).

Spriituality is not spirituality...it is 'in the womb' of evil, but the higher levels of such communication. Truth lay in the 3rd state of being, before the fall and lockdown to flesh by the Logos (demonic), who feeds upon the innocent spirit's substance for it's very existence...you are in it's regional home and lands (the cosmic region thereof).

So, enjoy your black ignorance, for it shall not change...everybody else, get out...work to release yourself, for some will be able to slip through the cracks.

A new womb is indeed being prepared, for as the evil turns darkest, it's opposite, Knowing & Wisdom, is borne into being...and here we are now. The hatches are being battened down. Escape (if you can, on your own).

The way through is Beyond the Locks. What's so funny, people, is the entire lockdown process is a progammable silver cd resting upon your heads, literally. The Shield of spirit. It's programmer is the 'savior' of man...the Archons of hell. Now, take it from there. And forget I ever told you this...it is secret.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by darkelf
 


144.000 / 6.700.000.000 = 2.14925373 × 10-5 is Gods chosen, the righteous, what an evil #.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by Salt of the Earth
 


See, this is the kind of talk that makes people not what to even listen to the Christian message. Too many Christians go around calling others heretics. Anyway...

Yes, Matthew is a good place to go to get information about the Second Coming and Tribulation. Just not the rapture because the rapture takes place before the Tribulation. Therefore the rapture is part of the Church Age, which ends when the Tribulation starts. I apologize if I wasn't clear on that before.


also the Bible says Jesus is coming at the LAST TRUMP and that when he comes he is going to DESTROY THE ANTICHRIST WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING. This means we will be here as long as the antichrist is here. (II Thes. 2)

I never denied that Christ would come back and destroy the Antichrist. In fact, he destroys him with his words. But, that doesn't mean that the church is going to be here until Christ returns. In fact, it's promised to one of the church in Philadelphia that they won't experience the trials on the Earth because they're going to be kept from them.


Yes, the parable of the 10 virgins, all betrothed to the bridegroom, and five of the virgins, whose lamps were once full, had gone dry, and they got shut out. Going dry is very dangerous because you never know when it's your time to go; and if you die dry, you will not make the first resurrection (See Romans 8)

The ten virgins weren't all betrothed to the bridegroom. That would mean that he was going to have ten wives. The oil in five of their lamps doesn't mean loss of salvation. It simply is a picture of being unprepared. [In fact, as you read on through that parable that the bridegroom didn't even know them! Once you're in Christ, he knows you because you're his and he never loses you.] When the bridegroom in that parable was coming, to get his bride and go to the marriage supper. The parallel with this is church being taken away by Christ and then going to the marriage supper of the lamb--which is completely distinct from anything that happens after the Tribulation.


These are antinomian heresies you repeat, deadly to the soul. The Bible warns repeatedly DO NOT BE DECEIVED, that no murderer, no liar, fornicator, drunkard, etcetera, will enter Heaven.

Believing that a person who commits suicide won't go to hell, if they're saved, isn't being deceived. If you're going to use that verse to prove that, then, no one will get to heaven because, we all have hated someone in our heart, which Jesus said is murder, or we have all looked at a member of the opposite sex in the wrong way, which is adultery, or we have had sex outside of marriage, which is adultery as well. Naturaly, everyone has lied too.

The point of me saying this is that, if someone has accepted Christ as their Savior, all their sins were future from the point of Christ's death. That means that all of that person's sins are forgiven, not just until they sin again. The Bible doesn't teach that nor does it teach that Christ only died for someone's sins up to the point of Salvation--that doesn't even make logical sense since people's sins, who are alive today, as I've said were yet future. When we accept Christ, our garments are made as white as snow and God sees us through Christ.


I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. John 10.28-29


Imagine how bad that would be, if conditional security is correct, if you lived the "perfect Christian" life after salvation but then one day you lost your cool on the street one day and then you were hit by a car. You'd be doomed to hell for being, frankly, human.

No one said either that when someone gets saved, that is a buffet ticket to sin, as you put it. Especially us that believe in eternal security. That is a notion that conditional security proponents made up out of thin air. In fact, many who believe in eternal security would say that if someone's life doesn't change, and that they keep on sinning--with the intent to sin--aren't truly saved at all. We know that we're saved based on our actions and our love for our fellow Christians.

On that note, despite your thinking I'm a heretic, I love you brother [or sister].



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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I grew up Christian, but I remember questioning what I was taught even as a small child. I meant no disrespect, I wanted honest answers - I was genuinely curious. I found out that after asking enough critical questions and not getting enough good answers that it wasn't for me. in place of Christianity where you see fit and the argument is more or less the same, so please don't flame me for picking on Christians...

It really does seem wondrous that that reality could exist as we know it without a God. However, I do NOT believe said God would be anything like the one depicted in the bible. According to my former faith I should be an outcast for turning my back on it. According to my former faith, people who I KNOW were good people did not deserve whatever good things God in store for us "believers". They were moral and led good lives. Why would god dismiss them even though they felt like they were doing everything they could to lead a good life? Does God really shun people that have no concept of Christianity? Does God really reject those that do not buy into Christianity? Suppose I argue that it is the missionaries themselves that should be punished for failing to convert those people? Yes, it's silly - Any god that behaves in such a way is not worthy of praise or even attention.

Some would say God made me the way I am. Well, I'm inquisitive and question everything. Why would he punish me for simply being what he created? If my curiosity makes me flawed then I don't want to be fixed.

I don't go to any church. I have no form of ritual or prayer regimen. I'm simply thankful to whatever higher forces that may be out there for everything that I have. Sometimes I wonder if I got everything I have by happenstance or if I'm being rewarded in some way. Maybe "God" likes that I'm trying to find a way to make my own relationship with "him". Religion is a creation of man and devotion to it has (or should have) no correlation with someone's devotion to being worthy of some grand destiny. If I were God, I would certainly reward the ones that, maybe weren't fully believers, but led their lives with their eyes and hearts open. The "followers" would only have my pity.

I'm fully willing to entertain the possibility of a higher being. Just suffice it to say my impression of God isn't nearly as childish as the one I knew growing up. If I'm wrong and heaven ends up full of people that think they have some special right to be there then I'll take my chances with hell anyway.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by an0maly33
 



Why would god dismiss them even though they felt like they were doing everything they could to lead a good life?


Because God doesn't want our good works. In Isaiah, there is a verse that says our human righteousness is nothing but a filthy menstrual rag to God. In other words, in our eyes, we see others that are living outstanding good and moral lives, but to God it's still as dirty are the dirt outside. This is because God is holy and we're sinners, stained by the fall.

The only way that we can get in God's favor then is through Jesus Christ, who was God, who removes that stain of sin from our souls.


If I'm wrong and heaven ends up full of people that think they have some special right to be there then I'll take my chances with hell anyway.

This is a misconception that the world has come up with about Christians. Typically, Christians don't feel that they have some intrinsic right to go to heaven. The only reason that we're going to go to heaven is because of what Christ did and our trusting in him to finish the work that he started back 2000 years ago in Judea.

[edit on 5/12/2009 by octotom]



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by octotom
 


So if God thinks so little of us why did he bother to create us in the first place? That's like having a dead beat drunk as a father. Willing to have fun making kids but has no respect or sense of ownership for the mistake he made. Again I turn to my argument that such a being is not worthy of praise.

To address your signature - not quite. If the cacti were sentient and had thumbs, maybe they could build a probe of some kind to prove there was an ocean. =)


[edit on 12-5-2009 by an0maly33]



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by an0maly33
 



So if God thinks so little of us why did he bother to create us in the first place? That's like having a dead beat drunk as a father. Willing to have fun making kids but has no respect or sense of ownership for the mistake he made

We weren't created in a sinful state. Adam and Ever were perfect. God did take ownership of his creation. Immediately after the fall, God promised the Messiah:


I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” Genesis 3.15


Also, it wasn't God's mistake that Adam and Eve sinned, but Adam and Eve's.

Unlike a "dead beat drunk father" God doesn't go around wapping us when we do something wrong. God continually shows the world mercy by not destroying it because of the state that it's in. The reason God does this is because he wants the whole world to accept the Messiah. In 1 Peter, I think, it's said that God isn't willing for anyone to perish but for all to come to repentance. John 3.16 says that God loves the world, or more specifically, mankind.

The main point is that God has provided a way of escape for humanity, he did take ownership. The question is whether or not people will accept that or reject God for their various reasons.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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Also, it wasn't God's mistake that Adam and Eve sinned, but Adam and Eve's.

Unlike a "dead beat drunk father" God doesn't go around wapping us when we do something wrong.


No, you're right. He just alienates all of them indefinitely over the first offense.

So he made them capable of sinning. And when they do, he not only punishes them (maybe rightfully so), but the entirety of the descending family tree? Over an apple? God doesn't need apples. Would you agree that it was a test of obedience? Is it really rational to condemn an entire species of "ants" to annihilation over principle?

If the good we do is so inconsequential then why are our sins so potent?


God continually shows the world mercy by not destroying it because of the state that it's in.


So what you're saying is I should kiss God's arse for letting me exist?

It is said that man is made in God's image. Would that also not mean that our relatively puny sense of awareness, morality, emotion, etc are similar, if not only a small subset of those owned by God? If so, then how is it that we as puny imperfect humans can see the lunacy of that type of behavior, yet he wouldn't?

[edit on 12-5-2009 by an0maly33]



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by speaknoevil07
 


A fear of punishment and a love of good are 2 very differnt things.

angels only hangout with cool people.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 06:45 PM
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Church of Philadelphia. Read the Beginning of Revelation from start to end then read Daniel from start to end. Or do it the other way. ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS.

Luke 21:36
"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Revelation 14:4
"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

Revelation 17:14
"These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."



Matthew 24:13
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

2 Corinthians 11:2
"For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin."

Ephesians 5:27
"That He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless."

Revelation 3:10
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Matthew 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."

Two separate events here folks. That would be a contradiction on Jesus' part if it was not.

So one beforehand for the spotless already then those who will be made spotless through Tribulation and whosoever turns to Christ. The dead will also be raised up at this time.



[edit on 5/12/2009 by watchtheashes]



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by octotom
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also the Bible says Jesus is coming at the LAST TRUMP and that when he comes he is going to DESTROY THE ANTICHRIST WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING. This means we will be here as long as the antichrist is here. (II Thes. 2)

I never denied that Christ would come back and destroy the Antichrist. In fact, he destroys him with his words. But, that doesn't mean that the church is going to be here until Christ returns. In fact, it's promised to one of the church in Philadelphia that they won't experience the trials on the Earth because they're going to be kept from them.


Being kept doesn't mean whooshed away.

Read II Thessalonians 2, and find out WHEN the rapture happens. I Thessalonians describes what happens. II Thessalonians tells us WHEN. Paul specifically addresses the question of when, and he said specifically Jesus is NOT COMING BACK UNTIL THE MAN OF SIN (THE ANTICHRIST) is here and the great falling away, and all that stuff, and that when Jesus comes back it will be to destroy the antichrist. This means Christians are goign to be here as long as the antichrist is here.


Originally posted by octotom
[
The ten virgins weren't all betrothed to the bridegroom. That would mean that he was going to have ten wives.


The church is the bride. All of us. Jesus is betrothed to all of us, not just one person. And just like the ones betrothed in the parable who went dry and got left behind, the same holds true for any Christian. Do not be deceived. Why do you think Jesus gave us these parables? Not so we can invent a religion in vague verses and conjecture. The Scriptures are plain, redundant, and Jesus tells us the same thing 20 different ways so we won't miss the point. And then people ignore all that and go invent pipe dreams out of obscure verses.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by Salt of the Earth]



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