The "pre-tribulation" rapture is a one way ticket to hell, page 1
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Topic started on 13-3-2009 @ 06:43 AM by heliosprime
So many in this end time are waiting to be "raptured" at any minute to miss the tribulation period foretold in the Bible. They ignore Jesus actual teachings and his example. So many pray to false gods, worship idols, ignore the commandments, ignore the true holydays. And these are just those who call themselves christian.

In the end time Jesus himself said the evil children od satan, those who follow him and ignore God's will are to be "taken" from this earth and burned in the fires of hell.

matthew 13:38-42

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Jesus can not be more specific about who is "taken" and who stays. He does NOT say he will gather out his fathers children......

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Repent and follow the actual will of God the father as did his son Jesus.






[edit on 13-3-2009 by heliosprime]


reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 07:10 AM by imd12c4funn
I agree. in Matt:24:vs.39, "the flood came and TOOK THEM alll away.
This is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

Matthew 24:36-41

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.


So the wicked will be taken.

BUT, in vs.30-31,
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.


So the angels come down, gather all the good people and? drop them into one area?

then take the bad away?

or do the good get put somewhere other than earth?

Or, are the martyrs dead and the comes for the souls? (since they are gathered from the heavens) , then takes the bad away leaving those still alive to enjoy 1000 years of peace?

[edit on 13-3-2009 by imd12c4funn]


reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 07:21 AM by letthereaderunderstand
Originally posted by heliosprime
So many in this end time are waiting to be "raptured" at any minute to miss the tribulation period foretold in the Bible. They ignore Jesus actual teachings and his example. So many pray to false gods, worship idols, ignore the commandments, ignore the true holydays. And these are just those who call themselves christian.

In the end time Jesus himself said the evil children od satan, those who follow him and ignore God's will are to be "taken" from this earth and burned in the fires of hell.

matthew 13:38-42

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Jesus can not be more specific about who is "taken" and who stays. He does NOT say he will gather out his fathers children......

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Repent and follow the actual will of God the father as did his son Jesus.




Harpadzo....To Beat, To seize. "Rapture" How do you separate wheat from chaff? Beat it

As you have said....It is so.

And why gather out of the earth? Because the narrow way to life, is through the hips....child birth. This is where Jesus whose name is a verb meaning "self existent salvation" is making a place for you...in the womb.

He says to Nicodemus, "Do not marvel that I said you must be born again" "If I tell you of earthly things and you do not believe, how shall I tell you of heavenly things?"

You must be born again and if you look up the Greek and not the english, it says "Procreate"....same since the beginning of the world....Good to know God doesn't make things in vain.

Want to be saved folks? Have children....the wheel in the sky keeps on turning....I don't know where I'll be tomorrow...

Peace


reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 07:24 AM by doctordoom
reply to post by heliosprime


Yes, the chaff is seperated from the wheat.

Very few understand it, even though it's pretty clear. People are perfectly content in following right off the end of the bridge.

The "saved" will suffer through all the horrors, until Judgement.


reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 07:37 AM by letthereaderunderstand
Originally posted by imd12c4funn
I agree. in Matt:24:vs.39, "the flood came and TOOK THEM alll away.
This is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

Matthew 24:36-41

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.


So the wicked will be taken.

BUT, in vs.30-31,
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.


So the angels come down, gather all the good people and? drop them into one area?

then take the bad away?

or do the good get put somewhere other than earth?

Or, are the martyrs dead and the comes for the souls? (since they are gathered from the heavens) , then takes the bad away leaving those still alive to enjoy 1000 years of peace?

[edit on 13-3-2009 by imd12c4funn]


What people also don't understand is that EVERYONE has a "sudden" moment. Scripture is not pointing to one event, but one event for all peoples lives. That doesn't mean it all happens at the same time.

Jesus himself said, there are some standing who shall not taste death, till they see the son of man coming in power.

Understand, Jesus came for the Remission of sins, not the redemption of souls which can only be accomplished in the blood, that is the blood of the semen or "the clouds of heaven".

His mission was to preach "Repent for the kingdom is at hand" Repent means "Re-think". This is why it is said, "others he could save". He came to save no one. We were sold for nothing, we are bought back for nothing, not a mans life. God says, "why do you trust in man or in the son of man who is made like grass, but have forgotten YOUR MAKER...mother and father. "before the child knows to choose the good and refuse the evil" the land (body) will be forsaken by both of her kings...Mother and father....."the love of many will grow cold"....

When we stop being fruitful and multiplying, then so will God. He is the lord of HOSTS after all.

Peace


reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 08:39 AM by St Udio
reply to post by heliosprime


I was long told that there were 2 earth cleansing events in the future...

the first is misunderstood as a 'Rapture'
the second is the 'Harvest' which is after the 1,000 year kingdom,
after Satan is loosed upon the world for 'a season'


your OP seems to be mixing the two seperate events when you say:


[...]
In the end time Jesus himself said the evil children od satan, those who follow him and ignore God's will are to be "taken" from this earth and burned in the fires of hell.



matthew 13:38-42

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

[...]


the people who are sealed, (or taken-up-into-the-air,) (aka: Raptured)
are those who will excape the Day-of-the-Lord/judgements upon those who have accepted the Mark-of-the-Beast at the time of the GreatTribulation...

the Harvest of the Earth is long after the Millennial Kingdom has ended...
when humankind was once again left to their own devices & laws/governments because the Angelic Armies & the Monarchy of Christ
left the planet in the hands of the 'Saints' or the saint's protogees'...
who lose control and the global social order returns to social/economic Darwinism, Armed forces, Taxes, moral decay, despotism....


reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 09:28 AM by darkelf
When the Bible was translated from the Greek to English, much of the original “flavor” was lost. Unlike English, Greek has different words that can be translated as the same word in English, but looses some its meaning. This is the case with the words took and taken used in the verses quoted from Matthew 24:

37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Took: Strong’s number 142 Airo: Although there are many definitions attached to this word, I believe that these last two are the applicable ones from this verse.
to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence
cause to cease

The verse says they (those not in the ark) all perished. The flood came and took them all away through death. Contrast this form of the verb with the form used in the following verses.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Taken: Strong’s number 3880 Paralambano:
to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self

So the point is not that the folks mentioned in the above verses were taken; it is how they were taken. The folks in the flood were taken by violent death i.e. drowning. The other folks are taken by Christ to be with him. They are taken to Him.

There were three groups of people who were associated with the flood. There was Noah and his family who were preserved through the flood. There was the rest of mankind who were destroyed in the flood. Then there was Enoch who was raptured before the flood.

This coincides with the Great Tribulation where 144,000 Jews will be preserved through the trib. The rest of mankind will suffer and most likely perish. Then there are the believers in Christ who are watching and praying to be raptured before the trib.

But don’t worry; I’m sure that if you don’t believe in the rapture, you won’t go.


reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 09:52 AM by darkelf
Originally posted by heliosprime
So many in this end time are waiting to be "raptured" at any minute to miss the tribulation period foretold in the Bible. They ignore Jesus actual teachings and his example. So many pray to false gods, worship idols, ignore the commandments, ignore the true holydays. And these are just those who call themselves christian.

In the end time Jesus himself said the evil children od satan, those who follow him and ignore God's will are to be "taken" from this earth and burned in the fires of hell.

matthew 13:38-42

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Jesus can not be more specific about who is "taken" and who stays. He does NOT say he will gather out his fathers children......

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Repent and follow the actual will of God the father as did his son Jesus.


There is a difference between the end of the world harvest and the rapture before the tribulation. My understanding of these verses is that they refer to the end of this world before eternity begins.


reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 10:17 AM by darkelf
reply to post by SS,Naga


The point of the rapture is not so that "Christians" can go about doing as they please. It is a promise from Jesus that He will prepare a place for us and come again to receive us. It is the Blessed Hope for Christians that we will not have to endure the Great Tribulation. That does not mean that Christians will not have to endure persecution before the trib.

Christians should be living a life that reflects Christ even if it means their death.


reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 10:24 AM by darkelf
reply to post by heliosprime


I use the term Jew loosly. I mean not only Judah but all of the tribes of Israel (except for the tribe of Dan who is excluded in Revelation).



reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 10:30 AM by SS,Naga
reply to post by darkelf


I believe in jesu as much as I do Satan Claus. Study, overcome the ignorance of desire and unseeing/unknowing. Jesu was a composited creation, a figurine of worship to control the self(s). Look within without self-lies, and the grey-murky mist will depart, reveal yourself, not some hideous murdering monster who you and other xtians choose to call 'blessed,' in jesu's name. Animal worship, low soul, dark and blind.

Next life (?) try to overcome the 0-12 yrs. set (fixed) programming they give you. You think you think: you are thought through.:

'He says to Nicodemus, "Do not marvel that I said you must be born again" "If I tell you of earthly things and you do not believe, how shall I tell you of heavenly things?" '

The fear you feel is your deniable ignorance and unknowing. I have Penertrated Within, been Penetrated by the Within, and these Words you would not understand, choosing the darkness of muck and mud, rather than the light Above (as above, so below; as within, so without).

I am no dogma (dog-man) consumer; neither is the Light of the Real, The WORD.

You and yours' are welcome to whatever you choose to consume.

My message is, you have been prepared, and will enter a 'new womb,'
like a shining golden tabernacle of pyrite. And you'll never know any difference. The craft of evil is not contained to just the visible, but carries on beyond the knowing of men/women.

Look about you, see the history of Earth and mankind, see the beliefs that have spread about: the faithful more evil then the innocent who are as children. The ravages are just 'evil,' they are intentful, and you will not look into that face. Nothing like a good fairy tale before nighttime.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by SS,Naga]


reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 11:31 AM by organism315
I have unique insight into this matter, because of my abduction experience. I was told to be a messenger of many things. And, on this topic, I have been given a simple message, so that all can hear.

---------------------------

What I must tell you is simple, and may save your soul and life.

1) Find value only in your character, as fairness (not profit) is the path to enlightenment. If any words, like "generosity", "grace", "hard-work", or "thoughtfulness", have a positive connotation to you, then it is truly a symbol of good, to you, and you should effort to chisel it into your soul.

(never covet any money, as money is energy you could use to help others. Energy is not for selfish personal gain, but rather for grace. Strength is given to those who reach out to others in need.)

[the mark of the beast is the eye of Ra, on the bills you all seem to covet] So, want not for money, but for your OWN PERSONAL CHARACTER!

2) Live in harmony with Nature and seek to improve mankind's balance with Nature.

3) (MOST important) Live in a constant heightened state of awareness to the consequences of ALL of your actions. Personal responsibility breeds inner strengths.

--------------------------

I cannot express to my friends on ATS, the importance of spreading this information. I can help anyone, but you have to ask me for help. I will always be open to conversation (U2U), and ask that those who are feeling darkest and most lost contact me.

I have suffered through all kinds of trials, and I can reach you. This is my promise. Grace is in you.

In Liberty, by God,
O-315


reply posted on 13-3-2009 @ 11:39 AM by Boogley
reply to post by heliosprime


Those are the ones that go through the tribulation and realize what's going on and have gotten saved etc. The rapture will be when God saves some of his devout followers before the tribulation. Why? Not for me to ask nor answer.

Speaking to the church of Philadelphia Rev 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

In the verse you linked He is speaking of the actual end of the world, when all is said and done after the rapture and the battle of Armageddon He will reap this world of evil.

But you forgot to link up the next verse, Matt 13:43 "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

It's literally saying that in the end the earth, after everything has happened, ANYTHING that is left that is wicked or unrighteous will be taken out and cast into a "furnace of fire." Then the people who were taken up in the rapture, those who became clean during the tribulation, and the righteous dead who died long ago will come back and inherit the kingdom of Heaven.

Matt 13:49-50 "So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked form among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

The rapture will happen in the "twinkling of an eye." That's why it says something along the lines of be ready because nobody knows the date time etc. But we do have clues to point us to when the world is forming the shape to bear the weight of the antichrist and his legion of fallen angels. It gives such good examples, there will be two in the field and then one will be taken and one left. It just going to happen so fast and things to remember about it are that it's going to look like the people who were "taken" were mutated or something. Only our souls will leave, body and blood etc left behind. It's going to be a crazy sight. Imagine sitting on a plane heading to Cali or something.. everything seems so normal and then all of a sudden you look around the peoples bodies are smoking and mutated and it's not just the person sitting beside you but a bunch of different people on that one plane. Now apply that on a world wide scale.

Satan doesn't have the power to do that, only God.
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