Black people 'less intelligent' scientist claims

Or maybe it's just that across the globes many blacks are poor and or uneducated.

Duh its going to effect physical results when looking at scientific fact.

If you put a hundred people of one race on a desert island and let 5 generations go by, a doubt this island will show any remarkable intelligence or progress.

Pretty much.

Abuse, Strife, War and Famine for a lifetime has an distinct effect on brain development.

(that's right boys in Africa - by making laws and cultural beliefs that allow you to abuse women and children your governments, leaders, and spiritual leaders are making you STUPIDIER. Think on it.)

[edit on 2009/3/18 by Aeons]

Hmm, I wonder if this can be related to the discussion in this thread?

Study Reveals Pop Music Fans Not Very Intelligent

I believe the good prof. said; “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really.".
"So There is a problem with this?".- Dr. J.A. Zoidburg
I'm suspecting he refers to the indigenous.
I imagine the Afrikaaner intelect is on a dead par, if not superior to that of the prof..
Indeed their intelligence is not.
It is my considered opinion that genetic I.Q. or in fact any racial memories of any set of creatures you could name would be different.
What makes up our "reptilian" brain? Mostly a bunch of basic sorts of stuff, like signaling the lungs to suck in some air every now and then, or telling our feet to stop walking as we begin to step out onto the glass sidewalk at the Grand Canyon, you know, automated services like that.
Then we have this great big mamalian structure which is what we pretty much think of when we say "brain".
There has long been discussion amongst scientists (usually whilst in their cups) as to whether the mind was even local to the brain and if I.Q. was in the curvatures or the size of various super and sub structures of the human brain.
Mind would hold learned or racial memories, (race in this writing apros L. or D..
A childs immune system is a direct consequence of the quality and content of the collostrum produced by it's mother.
Perhaps the neurosymbology for characteristics handy for staying alive in the environment of the mother (and her progenitors)is transfered via hormonal signals to enable certain functions, disable certain functions, and compile personal experiential data to the set.
If I lived where food literaly falls from the heavens, and the only thing likely to happen to me was 1. Something might eat me. 2. I might get old and die. Other than these fascinating choices unless pressed, one may find a culturaly rewarding ability, say an afinity to song or dance. Did you know most Polynesian dance is communication (other than let's do tha wild thang baby)? The tribal dances of the dark continent are also communication. Europeans do not really communicate via dance except to say "Let's do tha wild thang baby".
Other than base programing(reptilian brain), the functions of the mind/brain follows learned behaviors to some degree, what is perhaps undocumented is the length of time for learned behavior to be in the "program files", before it is entered into the sys files(the reptilian brain).
Perhaps the learned behaviors having to do with living within a european type culture, are also factors for comparison as regards the I.Q. or so called I.Q. test.
Would any argue that the middle class white has a very different set of experiences than a lower class negro? It is as if the two cultures had developed on different worlds, and indeed, they have.
Were the good Prof. find himself 150 years ago in the deepest african jungle, with guides, messengers, hunters, and bearers, could he hope to survive his trek if not for the difference in our manner of thought? So in this manner the prof. is better served by the indigenous I.Q. set.
Were a test to be made of THESE elements, in the tongue of the hypothetical african tribe who have somehow come to understand what the Prof. means when he scratches at the sand with a stick, would not the indigenous African be expected to exceed the tested I.Q. of our chief protagonist?
Very well. Now, who among us would argue that a lower class white person's cultural placement, and interoperational ability would be very different than that of an upper class negro within our own society?
Complete with different skill sets.
That's why I can dance better than Obama.
But he's better on the golf course than I am.
And why Bob Marley was better at making music than either of us.
One Love.





[edit on 27-3-2009 by Luminaught]

Take a second to define race/nationality/ethnicity. First I would like to cover the fact that you guys limit the word "black"to Africa(which is proven that all people of africa developed remotely without intermingling, meaning there isnt just one "black"). When we mention the THEORY of race, it is easy for us to include the fact that "whites" are inhabitatants of of all of the life bringing continents. But we confine "Indigenous" and people of color to one remote area, and we even have nerve to describe anybody outside of that region(Africa) as a descendant of Euro colonialism. I believe if you were to really do your research, and look up terms like "Veddoid","Cappoid","Hamitic",or even "Kemetic"(where we derive chemistry,alchemy,chemicals....)and you will see there is more to "People of Color" than you would have ever imagined.
"Users of the term point to Ethiopians, Eritreans, Somalis and Nubians who exhibit phenotypical traits such as orthognathism[5], non-kinky hair texture,[6] and keen facial features[6] seen by some as being exclusive to Caucasoid peoples. They contend such variations are indigenous to these groups and cannot be attributed to invasions from outside Caucasoid peoples as suggested under the Dynastic Race Theory and in more recent biological studies.[7"
Africa or (Af-Ra-Kam) is very much like asia, you can move a mile and the language and developement of the people are very different in everyway except appearance. Is this enough to qualify everyone as one label? NO, do we consider an Italian the same as a Russian because of his complection, No they have two completely different histories.
Now lets talk about the "black" race. When we look at "melinated" french people do we call them black,no they are french. When we look at Puerto Ricans(dna composed mostly of African blood)do we say, of the black race nope.
This is where you strike a nerve in the people who have become comfortable with other people thinking for them. What about the indigenous people of America, see this is where you can even answer this yourself, scientist claim "Native Americans" crossed the yadayadayada there Asian right?!?But how can an Indiginous person be the result of a wanderer?Indiginous refers to naturally occuring or not imported (like the kangaroo from aus) how could these people have "found" something that was already there thriving. Research the "Black Hawks" and research how one of our very own presidents disinformed people on the native people of america.
Now that we know who blacks are "2/3" of the planet lets really look at what we have contributed. The worlds first "counters and measurers of space and time=calendar=numbers and counting systems" The universe first music( music is the only thing known to activate about 9 regions of the brain at once in a sort of a orchestra), the first written language and bible, The great ideas of zero and infinity and void, the first maps, the first 3d terrestial maps of the heavens, the theory of a spherical planet, The knowledge of Atoms, Algebra, PI, the worlds first machines, I can go on for ages.
Im sorry if I carried on a little bit, but I had too, and I will close with this. Black isnt a color at all it is more than that, it enables colors(look how we invisioned our first tvs), when our eyes cant see pass a certain depth it turns what....black, at the center of the hole where gravity is so strong,no time, nor space can run from this region and its vibration gives of the "color" that we recognize as black. So in a timeless, spaceless, and whatever else less region is black as well as the fabric of space that is vibrating as we speak. Do you mean to tell me Black would be like an equivalant to light?No superior, because it allows light to shine. A vibration that is also beyond our sight and logic? So what does this mean and how is it related to the universe, the pineal gland and melanin, and how that gland is related to it. So I believe scientific instruments, "intelligence", and even history are limited to a limited amount of space which disables them to measure something so vast or grand. In other words stop trying to measure infinity with practical numbers.

I know plenty of intelligent blacks, I know plenty of intelligent whites, it's all pretty subjective rather one race is smarter than the other, then if so the inferior race definitely makes up for it in some other tradeskill. I know many black and white people that are stupid and annoying, I also know many mexican and asian people that are stupid and annoying, it's just what type of person you are that defines who you are, not your race. I used to be pretty racist, used to look down on blacks, iused the n-word in every day conversation and expressed my freedom of speech on certain internet forums(LL,4chan, etc) to use the word as much as possible and it's pretty disgraceful.

I have nothing against any race, I don't look down on people for skin color although I admit that when I see a black person I think different things from when I see a mexican or another white person, it's just how society and myself have grown to develop over the years. I'm in 12th grade and I know for a fact that every black student is walking with their class, but yet again the school is only maybe 20% black give or take.

Point I'm trying to make is live and let live, if you see someone doing something stupid and want to think something bad about them, do it for the type of person they are not for their skin color.

Identical twins studies have shown that there is strong correlation between intelligence (measured by IQ tests) and heredity. There's certainly correlation between IQ test performance and socio-economic situation of a person too. Caucasians on average have it better. Caucasians also on average perform better in these tests. How much of it does genetics explain? My educated quess is: a lot (in those twins studies socio-economic status wasn't very important factor). It's funny how much of a taboo this is..

[edit on 3-5-2009 by rhinoceros]

I believe the good Dr. came into my neighborhood to do the tests. But oh well. Its a good laugh but still not all Blacks are stupid. I happen to know a few very nice folks that are black that are doctors. Truthfully My doctor is a very nice Black lady and she finally found out what was wrong with my back. Unlike the Chinese Dr. That I went to or the 4 white Dr.'s I had gone to.

With any race there are stupid people. Stupid whites, Blacks, Mexicans, ect. My ex sister inlaw is white and she was more stupid then any dumb blonde joke. My brother inlaw is Mexican and he is stupid because he still believes those red headed kids his wife had are his. Then you have my Black neighbors which we know are stupid. When the State tells you to watch your kids 4 times in a month. After neglect reports come in. And they still allow them to play in the road, while no one pays attention for over 30 minutes. When there aged 2- 6 years old.

Yes every race has stupid people. And truthfully the Dr. that came up with this brilliant idea was stupid. The government that gave him the grants to do it was stupid. And so on.

I hate to say it but maybe we are all just stupid, its just that some of us are minimal stupid.

I would suggest that this is a valid point, however the mystery in my opinion is not all that mysterious.

Back in the days of slaves, intelligent slaves were killed. Weak slaves were killed. The slaves were bought, traded, sold, as well as matched up for the purposes of breeding. A strong slave worked harder and thus was preferred. Big, fast, strong, that is what slave owners wanted from their "property".

If we were to turn back the clock a few hundred years and reverse the roles, and lets say it was white people or people of European descent that were treated in such a way, it is they that would seem less intelligent.

Evidence of the "Super Slave" can be easily seen today, just look at the majority of professional sports and I would suggest that this Doctors studies could possibly be linked to that time in history as well.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by MrWendal]

Originally posted by pmbhuntress

Yes every race has stupid people. And truthfully the Dr. that came up with this brilliant idea was stupid. The government that gave him the grants to do it was stupid. And so on.

I hate to say it but maybe we are all just stupid, its just that some of us are minimal stupid.

Some races just have more stupid people than others. We're talking statistics here. The doctor (I believe) who started this controversy is the co-discoverer of DNA. Quite a bold statement to call him stupid

This thread needs to be turned on its head..
I am ashamed at some of the posts.

“all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really."

Just "who" decides what we are supposed to know and how we know it?
Why does personal knowledge have to have the stigma of measure attached to it?
Could we not substitute "figures" from rural caucasian West Virginia into this study?
Sounds absurd ....does it not??

This is a debilitating, biased, judgemental topic.
If someone does not "know"..then teach or show them if you can.
Belittlement is a vicious path. Refuse to participate.


Peace...

I think it shameful that the op had devote 3/4 of itself to telling everyone to play nice. That science must now bow to political correctness is no different than when anatomist had to steal bodies to study human physiology because the church considered it unholy.
The goal of science is to collect facts. IF all races are genetically equal then science can establish that fact.. and if they aren't?
Should we teach our children falsehoods and pass on incorrect data to them because some people might have their feelings hurt by the truth? Why not cancel the Olympics because it makes paraplegics feel inadequate?
As a white American male I understand there is a very great possibility that I will not be 'on the top of the heap'. I understand the average I.Q. of my particular demographic lags about 15 points or so behind the Asian but I believe this information should be made public because the Asian female has a right to know that by marrying and mating with a white American there is a very good chance her children will not be as intelligent as could be if they had been fathered by an Asian male.
Likewise the average American should at least have a right to know the probable effects that producing children with a negro will have on their children's I.Q. If they choose to ignore this information that is their right, but they should at least be provided with the best information science can provide so that they may make an informed decision.
Like religion, political correctness has no proper place in science.

reply to post by MrAnonUK


If you have a country as poor as Africa, irregardless of race, color or any other factor involved, you have limited opportunities for people to do anything but try and survive another day. Limited resources per country and per person equalls limited opportunities.

One cannot compare intelligence unless you have the exact same paremeters and factors for every group being researched.

If the premise is true, can they explain a man like George Washington Carver? Did you know that George Washington Carver marveled at God’s creation. He arose each day at 4:00 a.m. and took long walks in the woods so that he could think quietly about his Creator. He once told a friend, "At no other time have I so sharp an understanding of what God means to do with me." Every Sunday at Tuskegee he conducted an afternoon Bible class, during which he read the Scriptures and talked about God and nature.

I see a lot of pussy-footing around the old Politically Correct "Maypole".

As the Doc says, we are applying our social standards to Africa, and it is not working. It has been noted that blacks are poor at managing their governments. You have to know that For all those years that whites ran those African countries, that they must have had many, many blacks working for them in various capacities.
Then the whites pulled out.
And the whole place degenerated.
Building and machine maintenance ceased... Why?
Because they didn't have a white boss to tell them to fix it.
Just how hard is it to figure out that when something is broken, that it has to be fixed?
Why couldn't they just go ahead and do it?
Why do they need someone to tell them to?

Take a look at the contrast between Haiti and neighboring (white run) Dominican Republic.

You can call it lack of intelligence or you can call it something else.
Fact is the basic premise of applying the wrong social policies to blacks is Correct.

[edit on 3-7-2009 by OhZone]

I think I learned this when I first started watching "The first 48" in which by the end of the second day 90% of the suspects are arrested and charged, cause they blew some guys head off in broad day light out front of the liquor store, and leroy who has drug charges rolls over and squeals.

im just gonna keep it simple as usual...very very good post/thread and yea i think that there are some things that have to be accounted for like genetics but the way the world is going right now how inter racial couples are being more accepted as opposed to maybe 10 yrs ago obviously....so we wont have to deal with racial issues thank God! me personally its really up to the individuals want to be a better person in life.

Originally posted by ghaleon12
I've heard that even with cultural considerations taken into account, Asians still score better than any other group. Personally I don't care even if that is true, doesn't really affect me. So really, the scientist could have said "white people are less intelligent" and it might be true and I don't care. So to get worked up over this seems a bit childish, which some no doubt will. Statistics showing differences in height between groups aren't that controversial...

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
Whether or not this is true is certainly debatable, but is it worth debating? Casting one race/culture/class/sex as being more intelligent than another is degrading to the parties declared inferior. I think scientific research of this nature does little to unite our world and can do a wealth of damage by encouraging stereotyping and a sense of superiority. Can't scientific research be used for a higher purpose than this? ... I hope so.



[edit on 3/12/2009 by sad_eyed_lady]

I think that is the wrong approach. Lets say it is 100% true. How would we change the education system to adapt to that knowledge? Wouldn't it be better to know about a possible difficulty than to ignore it? They've found that race has an impact on how drugs are used by the body, wouldn't it be nice to know if a drug reacts differently in an asian person vs. someone else? If you know of difference you can work to negate the difference.

[edit on 12-3-2009 by ghaleon12]

We are not allowed to group students by ability these days (except for gifted, special ed, AP or honor's classes). Unfortunately, this means that many of the black students can't keep up with the other kids in the class and end up frustrated, behind, and finally drop out. Face it...the goal of education should be to teach the material to the kids. Does it matter if they pick it up tomorrow or next month? But no, they don't get it and the class moves on and they get further and further behind. We would rather not identify the kids and put them in the "low" group because it is bad for their self esteem, but really...do the "experts" think these kids don't know they aren't keeping up with the rest of the class?

I would never have believed this before I actually worked with a large population of blacks-and this group has spanned the range from janitors and low-level clerks up to white collar executives. Are there black people who are exceptionally intelligent, brilliant, gifted, geniuses? Yes, of course (even though out of the 50 + blacks I've worked with, I've never seen it first hand). Out of the 50+ blacks I've worked with over the years, I've known two who are decent to work with. But when we talk about averages, the average black person is far, far less intelligent than the average white (and that's not saying much).

Give me any other race to train and work with. I don't care if they are Latino, Asian, Indian, Native American, Middle-Eastern; there is a good chance that that individual will catch on satisfactorily quickly, have a modicum of manners, a decent or at least passable work ethic, and can get the job done without a need for constant hand holding.

I know intelligence is hard to quantify, but we certainly know it when we see it. You can get a pretty good idea of someone's intelligence just by observing how they do their jobs. Learning information quickly, remembering it, and using it to make logical, sound judgments exhibits intelligence. Smart people "get it" in a fair amount of time and move on. Sadly, the vast majority of the black people I've worked with have amazingly weak problem solving skills, poor memories, and it takes them a good 5 to 8 times of being given clear, slow instructions before they start to "get it" and can produce even marginally passible results. It's frustrating. Most of the time it would be easier to do the freaking work myself or give it to an employee of any other race or grade level to figure out and do. I've seen that abysmal performance even in white collar, high-paid blacks who were hired to meet a quota. And that's on top of a horrible attitude and lack of manners. I would be more accepting of the lack of smarts if I saw a better work ethic, but pretty much all I see are lazy, knuckle dragging oafs who would be great workers if they spent half as much time working as they do trying to scam ways around doing their freaking jobs. And they have no shame about other people carrying their load.

I know at this point alot of you are going to be calling me a racist, and that's ok. Just look at the evidence and science, and better yet, work with a big population of blacks and see if you change your mind. But know this, there is study after study that validates my empirical experience. For example, a 2005 study by Jensen and Rushton is one of several that have compared black kids from high-performing schools in wealthy areas to white kids in the worst of socioeconomic circumstances--and the black kids still scored lower. You can give them a huge head-start advantage and they still come out behind intellectually as a group.

There was a study conducted and a book written on the subject which revealed that IQ in blacks was one standard deviation lower than that of whites in the US.

Excerpt from The Bell Curve 1994

"Inequality of endowments, including intelligence, is a reality. Trying to pretend that inequality does not really exist has led to disaster. Trying to eradicate inequality with artificially manufactured outcomes has led to disaster. It is time for America once again to try living with inequality, as life is lived: understanding that each human being has strengths and weaknesses, qualities we admire and qualities we do not admire, competencies and incompetencies, assets and debits; that the success of each human life is not measured externally but internally; that all of the rewards we can confer on each other, the most precious is a place as a valued fellow citizen." (pp 551-552)

This was a very controversial book of course and regardless of its merit took a lot of flak.

One has to wonder though…

Could it possibly be the 800lb gorilla in the room no one wants to acknowledge? The races on the planet are different not only in physical appearance but in their mental make-up and ability - be it intellect, drive and or ability to succeed as a group. Can the disparity really all be socio-economic?

Whatever you want to call it there is a clear and glaring disparity in the relative successes of the different racial groups. There are certain and glaring differences in the willingness of different races to surrender the individual to the greater good, their sexual habits, spending vs. saving and marital commitments along with the role of fatherhood. This transcends geography and boarders.

I am neither a social scientist, economist, nor an anthropologist but there has to be some reason that even in America after 3-4 generations now of affirmative action and preferential treatment that the black population has not improved their overall social success rate - quite the opposite; it is in decline. I do not accept the reason being all outside factors like racism and economic oppression and other crap. It has to come from somewhere inside as well.

More crime, less education, more teen births, more addiction and almost every other mark of failure in a culture have increased despite all the favorable "leg-up" type programs to break the cycle. The programs have lead to dependence not independence.

Along with intelligence there are many factors in a groups’ success. There has been some research done in the past on the racial predispositions to certain social norms and mental ability, nature vs. nurture and other kinds of studies but regardless of the caliber of the study the people just won’t hear it for some reason.

Most rational minded academics avoid the issue for fear of being branded a racist for even posing the question. They fear being defunded, blackballed and ridiculed based on emotion and politics rather than science.

What strikes me as odd is that any rational person is more than willing to accept at face value that there are real physical and genetic differences between races.

However, the mere implication or suggestion of the same regarding any perceived differences in mental ability (intelligence) or social success must be related to outside factors not genetics. This seems absurd to me.

I remember well as I stated above the Bell Curve and the controversy it generated. There is some compelling data in that book to support real genetic predisposition towards IQ in different races. It went from ridiculed, to challenged to forgotten and ignored in a short span of time.

There will never be a reasonable and scientific study on the issue because I fear no one really wants to know the truth. For many the fear is that the results won't fit their perceptions that we are all simply the same and nurture is the only factor in intelligence because that would crash the welfare, entitlement and affirmative action state of our current society. Others can't or won't accept that any real genetic difference can exist in intellect because they feel it would disenfranchise a race of human beings by discouraging them to achieve. Some, albeit a minority who are perhaps real racists fear the opposite, that there would be no difference and they would no longer be able to feel superior on hyperbole alone. Then there are those who fear the truth period.

Unfortunately most people will just have a visceral programmed response to any objective study of the success of different racial groups with “we are all human” and charging whomever the person posing the question with racism….

Until we reach the point in science where we can just report the facts without emotion and political shenanigans no viable or credible study will be done into the genetics of intelligence in different races of the human species.

The racial issue is a touchy one especially in America – Eric Rush has a great book out called Negrophillia. It is a good study of how in America race relations and the institutional indoctrination of our kids in school and through mass media to more favorably view black culture. He also opines that this idolization of this culture is leading to an America that idolizes criminals, deadbeat dads, welfare dependency and drug use. This can drag the country nowhere but down.

We all my be human but in 5000+ years of recorded History one thing has become clear – there are clear and real differences in the relative societal success rates of different racial groups. There has to be more to it than victimhood and poverty.

It is time someone did some real objective research into the topic and quite beating around the bush…

We may never actually have the truth until someone investigates this on the genetic level - but until we leave the emotion of race behind this will never happen. I think too many people are afraid of what might actually come to be discovered.