Disinfo Alert - Warning, this site is full of it...

I recently came across this site - The CIA Internet Fakes and was keen to have a look at it. I try and stay alert to the possibility of disinfo and am therefore keen to see what other people think.

I was very, very disappointed, so much so that I thought I'd post a thread alerting people to what I think is the most egregious piece of disinfo I've come across since 911Myths. The site claims to be "exposing the NWO" but when you look at it, all the sites it accuses have good information, and all the information the editor, Finian Dunne, posts, treats government pronouncement like Holy Writ. It's pathetic.

I have a few rules of thumb when it comes to disinfo.

• Governments almost invariably lie
  
• things don't always make sense if you don't have all the puzzle pieces
  
• checking facts is always good
  
• good sources will often be subject to attack if they're really on the money
  
• over time a good source will tend to stay trustworthy but
  
• occasionally even the best sources may be fed disinfo and fall for it.
  

Over time I've built up a sense of where the good information is to be found. And this site attacks a lot of people I find to provide particularly trustworthy reporting and cogent analysis.

Supposedly, the purpose of the site is to expose the CIA Internet fakes whose agenda is to

-- To leverage the Fakes into position as the leadership/spokespersons
for the 9/11 skeptics movement.
-- To splinter and divide that movement.
-- To promote lame, tame and/or booby-trapped questions about 9/11.
-- To be sufficiently over-the-top as to prevent the 9/11 issue getting
any traction in the media or left-wing.
-- To ensure that the movement would not have a politically-active
leadership capable of turning it into an effective political lobby campaign.

This is actually a perfect description of the site's own function. Check out the very next paragraph:

The questions about 9/11 were bound to be asked, the important
aspect for the perpetrators was and is ...by whom?

No. The important thing is that the questions ARE being asked. It doesn't matter if you think, as I do, that Alex Jones is a bit of a blowhard who needs to stop screaming and talk a bit more calmly and rationally. Either what he says makes sense, or it doesn't. Sometimes, with him, it does: sometimes I disagree.

But the point is, the paragraph I quoted above tries to shift attention from the evidence itself to ad hominem attacks.

That's a sure sign of disinfo.

As far as Alex Jones is concerned... there are people out there who say AJ is a Zionist tool because he doesn't accuse the NWO of being Zionist. There may be a Zionist connection: there may not. I don't see it that way myself, and I don't see it as being, necessarily, relevant. The main thing is that he does expose a great deal of what is happening.

But this thread is NOT a defence of AJ. If you look at the site, you'll see a huge list of sites that Fintan Dunne smears as being CIA fronts. These include many sites that I personally trust FAR more than Alex Jones.

For example, co-operative research/the history commons (as it's been renamed) is one of the best things about the internet. It has evolved into a huge resource site where people have put many, many puzzle pieces together to form a fantastic resource for those who wish to research 9/11 and other matters.

There are many other sites accused by Fintan Dunne... and the thing they all have in common is that they expose information that TPTB would rather didn't come to light.

One such is Daniel Hopsicker's Madcow Morning News, a site that has been particularly strong on exposing CIA drug deals. Many threads on this site owe a great deal to Mr. Hopsicker's reporting, and one thread in particular, about five tons of coc aine found aboard an aircraft with CIA connections, inspired the kind of collaborative effort that occasionally makes this site worth wading through all the moronic posts for. It's here.

Hopsicker's site comes in for attack because he was very diligent on following up on Mohammed Atta's flight training at Huffman Aviation in Venice Fla. He scooped an interview with Amanda Keller, Atta's ex-girlfriend. I saw the original, which lasted quite some time, and was pretty much convinced that she was basically a pleasant girl, not incredibly bright, who had seen and described things that chip away at the usual 9/11 myth about fanatical hijackers.

Dunne has seized on the fact that, a little while ago, Keller (after being interviewed by, if memory serves, the FBI) retracted her story. Firstly, this doesn't wash with me - it looks more like she was pressured to retract than anything else.

Secondly, to then accuse Hopsicker (only one among many others) of being a CIA disinformant is, to put it mildly, incautious. His track record speaks for itself.

As does the "CIAInternetFakes" website.

There most certainly are sites out there that do all of the things that are described in the list I quoted above.

And CIAInternetFakes is definitely one of them.

Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 23 Mar 09 by Gools]

Originally posted by rich23
I have a few rules of thumb when it comes to disinfo.

• Governments almost invariably lie
  
• things don't always make sense if you don't have all the puzzle pieces
  
• checking facts is always good
  
• good sources will often be subject to attack if they're really on the money
  
• over time a good source will tend to stay trustworthy but
  
• occasionally even the best sources may be fed disinfo and fall for it.
  

The whole truth, most people cannot gauge the whole truth. They think they are told the truth, true.. but it's the truth that can be conveniently disclosed and not the whole truth. And people (in ATS included) just constantly keep falling for it. They want to believe in heroes but they're having problem visualizing the big picture. Not until they figure out the big picture or have all the puzzle pieces (like you said), then they would keep falling for disinfo.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by stikkinikki


Might want to watch your typing of profanity there, purposely evading the board foul language censor is against the T&C.



As to the subject of websites being disinfo sites, heck thats been known to be a fact since the early days of BBS boards.

It is just now, there are lots more of it.


Cheers!!!!

To tell you the truth I can't remember what I wrote. I dig you Burns. You are funny and you seem intelligent but to think I am purposely trying to get around some obsenity rule is silly. I am living and speaking truth. Keep your rose colored glasses if you need to.

Let's stay On Topic everyone...

And the Topic is NOT each other...

Semper

reply to post by rich23


My opinion on disinformation agents is that they are very individuals folks here reference their information off of. Disinformation agents will all of sudden agree with you on a number of things then will secretly sneak in some of their messages that they usually wouldnt say seperatly. Folks seem to think disinformation agents are those who oppose these theories of "fema camps, 9/11, NWO" when in actual fact they will agree completely and even promote these conspiracies in an effort to better gain respect and so in turn get their messages through a way of stealth.

Fox news, probably the most well known disinformation agents and news outlets are really showing the stuff of legends when they successfully have gotten many in the ATS community into trusting them meanwhile carrying their own agenda while at it.

Whats the best way to distract people? You agree with them on the conspiracies they believe in but then you go so far as to add in other elements to the story to the point where people start seeing them as just plain whacko and inaccurate. I have my own opinion on whats disinformation and what offers truth... at the end of the day it is up to us to decide whats true and whats not... and it is our responsibility to maintain an open mind while we are at it. Disinformation agents are an inevitability, nothing we can do about, nothing to warn off people... the only thing we can do is to think in an object manner and realize the scope of the story without the little bits added to it over time.

I see the phrase "disinformation agent" on ATS all over the place. I've had it thrown at me, usually when I try to throw cold water on something I consider totally unfounded or exremely prejudiced.

I seriously ask this question: what is the real life profile of the supposed disinformation agents that are supposed to be around here. Are they in their 30s, being paid by the CIA, how much, and to what end? Has anyone ever gone rogue and told their story?

It all feels more like witch hunting. We know their malign influence is there, but who can name one, show a picture, provide any sort of testimony that will stand up to scrutiny?

Most of all, what are hoping to accomplish, and how successful have they been?


Mike F

Wow , the Ego's on some of you people. Your all so smart and as some of you profess, ahead of the curve here on ATS ,because certain threads get high post counts. Please, take a breath. ATS is in its basic form a chat room, with a theme. Conspiracy. Because some threads involvlng MSM's are getting hits, were ready for the koolaid, haha. I don't think so ,I do see a lot of piggybacking on others opinions, dont wanna do the reasearch I imagine. Or too afraid to voice their own opinion's for fear of ridicule , but dont short sale the average user here as a victim to dis-info, the dis-info people aren't that good at it, and ive seen it several times, do it myself , where they are called on their (t c) poop

reply to post by rich23

It certainly looks like you had already made your mind up, concerning Fintan Dunne's site. Why don't you present some of Fintan's research and detailed reasons for placing people like AJ on the list. Your "criteria" completely misses what Fintan uses as criteria.
Here is a shortened 9 minute Youtube concerning AJ, cut from an hour and a half explanation of why AJ is a disinformation agent.



As I said to you on the thread where this was posted, disinformation agents do NOT always lie. If they did, it would be easy to label them as such. On that thread, AJ claimed that a document from the Missouri State Police Criminal Analysis Unit said that Ron Paul, Constitution Party supporters, and Libertarians were terrorists.
The document DOES exist, and is legitimate.
HOWEVER, the document does NOT say that those mentioned are terrorists.

The truth is that the document does exist.
The lie is that the document does not claim that those people are terrorists.

This is a typical disinformation scenario- lies based upon some truths.


As to truth in advertising, you should have included Fintan's explanation of what he considers a CIA fake:
www.breakfornews.com...

The CIA Fakes is a catchphrase term to describe a group which includes: -- Covert Operatives of the CIA, NSA and DIA; of the U.S. Corporate/Military Industrial Complex; of the intelligence services of U.K. Spain, France Holland, Germany, and Russia. -- Political Agents working within the Democratic Party, Republican Party, Democratic Black Caucus, Green Party, and Patriot Movement. -- Politicians in the U.S., U.K. Spain, France, Germany and Russia --who pose as 9/11 skeptics. -- Media, including Mainstream, Alternative Media and Internet broadcasting media who either front for, cooperate with, or are directly employed by intelligence services mentioned above.

In addition, he says:

Note: We do not contend that everyone associated with these websites are knowing intelligence operatives. Some have been professionally manipulated, others merely misled. In any event these are promoting the psyop agendas and disinformation themes of the covert controllers. This is also not meant to be a fully comprehensive listing of all the fake websites.

Personally, I have no skin in this game. However, I find it hard to believe that one day after finding out about his site, you can make a call that he is a disinformation agent.

You say:

and all the information the editor, Finian Dunne, posts, treats government pronouncement like Holy Writ. It's pathetic.

and yet, in his site, he states:

Given the number of assets deployed in support of the 9/11 operation, and the operational requirements of the 9/11 attacks themselves, their origin is now clear. 9/11 was not carried out by some 'rogue group,' nor was it a fully official US Government-sanctioned operation. But it was orchestrated by the highest levels of the US Military and military-industrial complex; on behalf of the national and international politicians, corporates, and moneyed interests. It had, and still has the full support of the US Military/intelligence apparatus -who control much of the alternative media and the 9/11 movement.

That certainly doesn't sound like he is accepting the government explanation of 9/11 as "holy writ", does it?

Originally posted by stikkinikki
To tell you the truth I can't remember what I wrote. I dig you Burns. You are funny and you seem intelligent but to think I am purposely trying to get around some obsenity rule is silly. I am living and speaking truth. Keep your rose colored glasses if you need to.

I wasnt saying you were intentionally doing that, I was saying your post makes it "look" like you are. Difference from saying "hey your purposely trying to avoid the censors man!!"

Oh the confusion that can be abundant with text on a screen. Didnt mean to cause confusion...just was trying to give heads up...save you from getting a slap sign and possible point deduction is all.

Back to topic...

The disinfo sites, I remember a few BBS boards where some were taken over by government BBS boards and all you got after dialing into them was a blank screen. Then suddenly some weird screen flashes and then the modem would disconnect.

Cant verify thats what was going on, but on some of those where that did occur, the companies with the affected BBS boards would send emails to their members of new phone numbers to log back into their boards. Oh that was back in like 93 I think.

Cheers!!!!

In today's day and age if I had the power I believe others have I would just do it...pertaining to any crisis or "false flag". Let the details spill,.. so what, I'll have (inside secrets) spill out on this side then just watch the show. Nobody wins because each side has "real verifiable truth" but both are to stupid to see the bigger picture that both are right. I will win and keep my secret while the sheep fight amongst themselves over the years , until some point its just not important anymore. I win. Big government wins! .. because the American people are to lazy... and stupid to get off their butt and do something about it. I win you lose because you have no spine, even though you outnumber me 2000-1 I still win. I always will win. Prove me wrong.

That is a double dare.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by rightuos]

[edit on 13-3-2009 by rightuos]

You know what's funny? The government has ADMITTED to having disinfo agents, and some (most?) people on here STILL don't believe it.

reply to post by sir_chancealot


That's right Sir Cancealot,

I always wonder the same. Why do some people act so surprised? Perhaps they are the disinformation agents themselves. Remember, intelligence depended on secrecy. When that didn't work alone, they recurred to disinformation agents to obfuscate, derail, divert, ridicule, etc.

It's part of their game!

I met Daniel Hopsicker, a righteous journalist.

I recommend reading his book BARRY AND THE BOYS: the CIA, the Mob and America's Secret History available at

MadCrowPress.com

and buying some of his videos - I learned so much from his books and videos.

He really needs our support. Send a donation to him however modest.
I try to send him a few dollars every year.

We need to support the real muckrakers like Daniel Hopsicker.

His recent video is: THE NEW AMERICAN DRUG LORDS

I highly recommend his 5 DVD series to get you up to speed on the running of Amerika

America's Secret History - an Introduction

Masters of the Universe

Secret Heartbeat of America (see the tragic story of the two boys who were found laid across the railroad tracks dead and an interview with their mom in Mena, AR)

Mohamed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus

The BIG FIX: Election 2000

I have given the 5 DVD series to a couple of people who needed their consciousness raised.

See the zoo of American characters and forces running our nation by visiting

MadCowPress.com

Daniel Hopsicker's book

WELCOME TO TERRORLAND - Mohamed Atta and the 9-11 Cover-Up in Florida

is a complement to his video, Mohamed Atta and the Flying Venice Circus

Both are a MUST READ and MUST SEE.

A friend who owns a book store has read thousands of books - when he picked this one up, he could not put in down and stayed up til 3 am to finish it! I did the same.

Daniel had intended to write a book after he produced the video:

THE BIG FIX: 2000

about the stolen election... and the influence of the Mob, Mafia, gambling industry and touch screen voting machines he uncovered after scouting through Georgia, Nevada, Louisiana, Florida, New Jersey, etc.

BUT then 9/11 happened, and that provided a fertile ground for some serious muckraking. SO, instead, he wrote WELCOME TO TERRORLAND and made the FLYING CIRCUS video.

Daniel's parents had lived in Venice, FL, for 25 years so he knew the scene in Venice
and was able to get right over there after 9/11 to do interviews and secure some of the real story before the hush up occurred.

M. Atta was a drug using, hard liquour imbibing kind of guy - I wont tell you what he did to the kittens of his girl friend.

The book was published by TrineDay.com and is available from them or from Daniel
at MadCowPress.com

Hopsicker has a unique ability to be upbeat and retain a sense of humor in the dark world of conspiracy think. The whole nine yards of information is akin to a theater of the absurd or black drama popular in the last century....

the whole truth
nothing but the truth
so help me god

three different things

I don't doubt for a minute there are bonafide disinformation agents hard at work fabricating misinformation to muddy the waters and deflect from the truth.

I doubt though there's a whole lot of their activity dedicated to conspiracy sites, but I could be wrong. It seems that disinformation, intentionally and not, creates itself in this environment.

Not a criticism on my part as much as lament. I wish I could attach some level of credence to more of what I read around here. It's impossible to check out everything and in mainstream media, as bad as it is, there is some attempt to double check facts and their source.

The maze aspect of not knowing if you're wandering into a cul-de-sac by accepting something posted can be intriguing, but it's mostly frustrating.

And I'm still waiting to hear from a renegade disinformation agent somewhere. If they're as plentiful as we're led to believe, at least a couple must have abandoned ship and are willing to spill the beans.


Mike F





[edit on 13-3-2009 by mmiichael]

The enemy uses lies to propagate their dark agenda

The resistance must use in equal force, every resource possible to expose the severity of the game.

A grand majority of people are truly ignorant, they would kill for the outdated beliefs that have been put in their heads by the media - so pathetic!

Their is alot of truth being slung around here on ATS, and an equal amount of trolls to deny it. But it is a good place to get leads. the site you mentioned in essence serves its purpose, the CIA is not our friend.


I joined ATS, to share with some, that are aware of the growing insanity. and to keep a watchfull eye on your minds.




[edit on 13-3-2009 by HulaAnglers]

Originally posted by branty

People are getting labelled disinfo agents all over this site because their opinion doesn't fit in to the general theme. We all have opinions and we should all listen to each other, we don't have to agree with might not necessarily agree with what they say but we should all be open to their views at least.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by franspeakfree]