Tibet: 50 Years Of Brutal Occupation

I've always been passionate about situations like Gaza and Tibet, appalled at the way Palestinians and Tibetans are treated in the glare of the world's spotlight and equally astounded at the lack of international action.

The following quote is the last couple of paragraphs of an article with what I think is a real cool take on the Tibetan occupation. Apparently it's the 50th anniversary this month of the 1959 Tibetan Uprising and the Dalai Lama's enforced exile.

You can read the full article here

But also that, while Tibet and its people continue to suffer at the hands of one of history’s most tyrannous and brutal occupations, the world’s other superpowers – the United States, Russia, Britain and Europe, India, Israel, Canada – will continue to turn a blind eye for fear of incurring China’s wrath.

The fact is China’s cooperation in establishing what Gordon Brown referred to in his recent speech to Congress as the “global new deal” – effectively the infrastructure for a ‘new world economic order’ – is essential.

With China now more than ever lynchpin to the machinations of new world finance and government, the New World Order’s economic and political edifice will simply collapse unless propped up by China’s financial muscle.

In this context, a few peasants in Tibet are meaningless.

consciousape.com...

I'm quite new to ATS so I hope I did this right. Anyway I'd be real keen to hear anybody's views.




[edit on 12-3-2009 by winston_boy]

Mod Edit: Codes for external quotes fixed, use

instead of

[edit on 5-11-2009 by worldwatcher]

Arent they supposed to be about non-attachment? Somone needs to tell them to practice what they preach.

Arent they supposed to be about non-attachment? Somone needs to tell them to practice what they preach.

Not aware of too many creeds or cultures who practice what they preach. Do Christians or Democrats or Popes or Presidents pratice what they preach? Get real, dude.

At the end of the day they're just ordinary people being brutalized by a regime so powerful on the world stage no one has the political balls to stop them.

Sorry guys, I said I was new here! I think I've sussed it now.

The quote below should have looked like this:

...while Tibet and its people continue to suffer at the hands of one of history’s most tyrannous and brutal occupations, the world’s other superpowers – the United States, Russia, Britain and Europe, India, Israel, Canada – will continue to turn a blind eye for fear of incurring China’s wrath.
The fact is China’s cooperation in establishing what Gordon Brown referred to in his recent speech to Congress as the “global new deal” – effectively the infrastructure for a ‘new world economic order’ – is essential.
With China now more than ever lynchpin to the machinations of new world finance and government, the New World Order’s economic and political edifice will simply collapse unless propped up by China’s financial muscle.
In this context, a few peasants in Tibet are meaningless.

.

www.consciousape.com

Does anyone have an opinion???

[edit on 12-3-2009 by winston_boy]

[edit on 12-3-2009 by winston_boy]

[edit on 12-3-2009 by winston_boy]

I've always been passionate about situations like Gaza and Tibet, appalled at the way Palestinians and Tibetans are treated in the glare of the world's spotlight and equally astounded at the lack of international action

.

But not as appalled and astounded as I am at the lack of interest in this topic.

Eat this: apathy is equally as accountable for the situations in Tibet and Palestine as are the brutal Chinese and Israeli regimes causing them.

Originally posted by winston_boy


At the end of the day they're just ordinary people being brutalized

Yeah, I'd much prefer for them to have remained in serfdom in their 'medieval' kingdom.
The first Dalai Lama was imposed by 'China', so there is a long history of contact there, and the notion of a 'god-king' who must be obeyed (or you are put instocks, stoned etc) held back the Tibetan advancement into the Twentieth Century.

It's not as black and white as you make out.

Seems pretty black and white to me. A race of folks are being oppressed by another race of folks, regardless of the history involved (and your history books read plenty different to mine, I have to tell you ).

Yep, Winston_Boy is right on the money. China needs to get the hell out of there and let Tibetans be 'serfs' if that's what they want.

Originally posted by aorAki
Yeah, I'd much prefer for them to have remained in serfdom in their 'medieval' kingdom.

Whilst at the same time the "Advanced" (non serfdom?) Countries and world powers, societies and people, had just fought the bloodiest wars in human history, dropped the first nuclear weapons and created the horrors of the trench's, and witnessed Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Francisco Franco, Josip Tito,
Oh and that was just Europe.

If he meditates they are serf's?

But if he is a politician they are citizen's?

The first Dalai Lama was imposed by 'China'

Is that so?

The first Dalai Lama, Gedun Drupa, was born in 1391 at Gyurmey Rupa, near Sakya in the Tsang region of central Tibet to Gonpo Dorjee and Jomo Namkha Kyi, a nomadic family. His given name was Pema Dorjee.

He did his primary studies of reading and written Tibetan script with Gya-Ton Tsenda Pa-La, and then at the age of fourteen, he took his novice vows from Khenchen Drupa Sherab, abbot of Narthang Monastery, who gave him the religious name of Gedun Drupa. Latter, in the year 1411, he took the Gelong vows (fully ordination) from the abbot.

Source

so there is a long history of contact there,

Certainly is, but not what you are alluding to.

and the notion of a 'god-king' who must be obeyed (or you are put instocks, stoned etc)

Whilst "Civilised" countries had as shown above just torn apart Europe and Russia, Hundreds of millions of dead, dropped the first Nuclear Bombs on civilian targets, seen the Jewish/catholic/gypsy/slavak/gay/disabled holocaust in organised factory fashion.

Oh all whilst still carrying out the death penalty themselves, hanging, electrocuting, shooting, still goes on today I think does it not in many "advanced" countries ?

held back the Tibetan advancement into the Twentieth Century.

Certainly if quoted without honest reference to both past actions of the countries and "Civilisations" you speak from the point of view of,

However, wherever and whatever they were meant to be "advanced" into seems no better a way of controlling illegal acts in society, if a cop tell you its wrong or a Monk meditator and you will be punished if you do that thing has no difference except one.

The cops in such a managed control for human population would probably have to be there for endless generations, wheras the monk way may one day lead to natural or rather evolved subconscious abstination from such acts. Only difference, unless of course you know of a way to control populations and the percentage of dishonest, violent and dangerous civilians not found yet?

It's not as black and white as you make out.

Or certainly as you make it out to be.

Kind Regards,

Elf

reply to post by MischeviousElf


I thought I would include these links as they do seem pertinent:

www.michaelparenti.org...

It might be said that we denizens of the modern secular world cannot grasp the equations of happiness and pain, contentment and custom, that characterize more traditionally spiritual societies. This is probably true, and it may explain why some of us idealize such societies. But still, a gouged eye is a gouged eye; a flogging is a flogging; and the grinding exploitation of serfs and slaves is a brutal class injustice whatever its cultural wrapping. There is a difference between a spiritual bond and human bondage, even when both exist side by side

Many ordinary Tibetans want the Dalai Lama back in their country, but it appears that relatively few want a return to the social order he represented. A 1999 story in the Washington Post notes that the Dalai Lama continues to be revered in Tibet, but

. . . few Tibetans would welcome a return of the corrupt aristocratic clans that fled with him in 1959 and that comprise the bulk of his advisers. Many Tibetan farmers, for example, have no interest in surrendering the land they gained during China’s land reform to the clans. Tibet’s former slaves say they, too, don’t want their former masters to return to power. “I’ve already lived that life once before,” said Wangchuk, a 67-year-old former slave who was wearing his best clothes for his yearly pilgrimage to Shigatse, one of the holiest sites of Tibetan Buddhism. He said he worshipped the Dalai Lama, but added, “I may not be free under Chinese communism, but I am better off than when I was a slave.”57

It should be noted that the Dalai Lama is not the only highly placed lama chosen in childhood as a reincarnation. One or another reincarnate lama or tulku--a spiritual teacher of special purity elected to be reborn again and again--can be found presiding over most major monasteries. The tulku system is unique to Tibetan Buddhism. Scores of Tibetan lamas claim to be reincarnate tulkus.

From source provided above quote.

...and...


www.stuff.co.nz...

I am not arguing that the Tibetans do not have a case. Nor am I arguing that the Chinese rulers are nice. I am merely pointing out that Tibet has suddenly become everyone's cause du jour, after 18,000 similar jours when it was very few people's cause. That's how the virus works. It is sudden, arbitrary and selective.

It pays no attention, for example, to Xinjiang, another supposedly autonomous region of China in which the indigenous Uighurs regularly rise against their Chinese rulers and are brutally put down. This may be because the West finds it harder to bleed from the heart for Muslims than for Buddhists, just as the West is slow to save an endangered species of spider, but rushes to the cause of endangered furry mammals.

From source provided above.

I think both these articles make excellent points and are far more useful than saying " China bad, Tibet good".

Yes, China has bad human rights...just be careful throwing the first stone. Our own freedoms are not actual.



[edit on 10-5-2009 by aorAki]

[edit on 10-5-2009 by aorAki]

Originally posted by aorAki


I think both these articles make excellent points and are far more useful than saying " China bad, Tibet good".

If you read my post it is plain to see I never mentioned the word China once!

Soo please explain your reasoning in saying that in reply?

Yes, China has bad human rights...

And now you have brought it up committed genocide and still do to this today in Tibet.

just be careful throwing the first stone.

I never I just showed the Westren countries past and present penal system to be as or more barbaric than the Tibetan one you were slandering and mis representing.

Our own freedoms are not actual.

Exactly so how can we call them serf's?

If your Chinese have you enjoyed being a slave nation to the western capatalistic way of life your own government denounces, and killed millions trying to eradicate?

If Western, do you like working extra hours every week, as will the generations to come do, to pay for the banking cartels spending your money?

Who is civilised, who are the barbarians and who really are the serf's?

Elf.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf


I never I just showed the Western countries past and present penal system to be as or more barbaric than the Tibetan one you were slandering and mis representing.

I actually wasn't slandering and misrepresenting them, they are no better than the Western acts, nor worse....my main point, which was not put across well, admittedly, was that Tibet is no more deserving of our attention than other atrocities/acts of Imperialism....however, the issue (reiteration) is not black and white and possibly because the 'poor buddhists' are being 'subjugated' and aren't 'uncivilised black people' who 'need to be civilised' they get the 'flavour of the month' again and again.


There is a book I have which I can't find at the moment (I have many, many books, but I'll provide the details when I find it) of photographs by an American in early Twentieth Century Tibet. Not pretty in all honesty, and quite brutal in many aspects. Very much a totalitarian theocracy.

However, given History and association, China has 'more right' to be in Tibet than many other countries and their acts of imperialism (including to some degree the British in New Zealand due to the ignorance of the Treaty of Waitangi for many decades).

Also, the current Dalai Lama's media machine has been going in overdrive and success in this realm has bred success for his cause. I'm not totally sure I trust him. I have heard him talk and wasn't overly impressed (my cornball wisdom radar was going haywire) and I feel he is an apt recipient of the title of a Living Colour song.

I have to say aorAki, I really think you have a strangely aligned thought process going on there one I find difficult to fully appreciate. To put it another way, it sounds as though you're arguing for the sake of arguing rather than to reach common understanding.

Why should I or anyone else be interested in whether or not you like the Dalai Lama? Why should it matter if he's the 'real deal' or not?

Why should it matter if Tibetans are black, white or yellow?

The point is they are suffering at the hands of a brutal regime and that should be all that concerns you. It is a human rights issue, not a political issue.

Check out the information and first-hand accounts here: Free Tibet

Your history / knowledge of Tibet and its people is way off the mark, by the way. I don't know what book(s) or author(s) you are referring to, but I suggest you question their sources and broaden your scope.

Originally posted by winston_boy



Your history / knowledge of Tibet and its people is way off the mark, by the way. I don't know what book(s) or author(s) you are referring to, but I suggest you question their sources and broaden your scope.

Yeah right.
So, just because my ideas and thoughts don't agree with yours they are instantly wrong?

You seem to have real comprehension problems if you can't understand my post, but that's o.k, I guess that there are too many Free Tibet fanbois out there who jump on the bandwagon and the propaganda machine.

Never mind, I'll remember not to post anything that disagrees with the majority.


I suggest you do the same and question YOUR sources and broaden YOUR scope.


My point about skin colour was that there are worse atrocities ongoing but because they are occurring to 'black people' the inherent and underlying racism kickstarts without us paying much mind to it.

You did realise there were quite a number of Tibetans who actually support/ed China's influence in the area and that the Dalai Lama applied to join the Communist Party?

I thought not.

[edit on 11-5-2009 by aorAki]

Originally posted by aorAki
Yeah right.
So, just because my ideas and thoughts don't agree with yours they are instantly wrong?

No they don't agree with recorded history or the truth, this is not a philosophy conversation.

You seem to have real comprehension problems if you can't understand my post,

He unlike yourself was not accusing anyone of posting things they had not already, so his comprehension is fine, though yours has been proven to be lacking even in comprehending less than 300 words written by me.

What chance do you have therefore of understanding the truth of the massive and complex historical truths of the tibetan power structures of the past and present, and chinese history to?

I guess that there are too many Free Tibet fanbois out there who jump on the bandwagon and the propaganda machine.

What bandwagon?

The only country with a Propoganda machine is China in this situation that has as we speak over 10,000 paid bloggers who blog on sites like these what they are told to write by the PRC genocidal regime.

Are you one yourself?

I have outed many already

Never mind, I'll remember not to post anything that disagrees with the majority.

This site is actually against the majority, or rather wants to question the facts and discuss the different sides to find the truth.

What is posted from both sides in cases like these when it is not a matter of "he says he saw that bright light, but was it a bird?" but history, recorded and documented is impartial sources, and also eye witness testimonies, if someone is beaten and shot in front of you it is hard by even by ATS standards for anyone to say it was a Lantern they saw.

I suggest you do the same and question YOUR sources and broaden YOUR scope.

To include?

My point about skin colour was that there are worse atrocities ongoing but because they are occurring to 'black people'

Where to?

What country?

Africa are you alluding to?

If so the only organised killings and beatings taking place there now is by the countries OWN people, and the largest current world player in african politics is China infact.

Where is genocide taking place now in Africa by an external force?

You are a couple of hundred years out in your understanding I think....

the inherent and underlying racism kickstarts without us paying much mind to it.

This part of your post is Nulll, as what you are alluding to as I said has and does not happen, if infact you are advocating regime change like Bush in Iraq etc, well if there was oil in Mozambique I am sure it would have happened.

You did realise there were quite a number of Tibetans who actually support/ed China's influence in the area

As you point out "Tibetans" so there is no "area" they supported the chinese in, it was a seperate nation, namely Tibet that's why you call them tibetans yourself.

When are you talking about?

Then, when the Chinese Army moved in and destroyed over 6000 monastries killing the monks and nuns, raping them and making their families pay for the bullet's?

Or more recently.

What do you define as "quite a number?"

In my country there are millions of people, and I could say there are quite a number who would like it ruled from Islamabad, or Salt Lake City but that means nothing to the nation state right of this country.

Quite a few could be 6 people yes? without proven figures and such broad statements I think about 6 was right.

and that the Dalai Lama applied to join the Communist Party?

Really?

When?

Where?

In what context?

Sources please, and I know exactly what you are referring to, I am very interested in your spin of it...

Kind Regards,

Elf.

If China White is blogging next to you, say hi, he gave up lying on here to

Originally posted by MischeviousElf


No they don't agree with recorded history or the truth, this is not a philosophy conversation.

\

....and recorded history is always the truth?
....since you have such a handle on the 'truth' you might like to inform the world.

I know this isn't a philosophy discussion, but jesus f christ you seem like one trick pony (if you can post thinly-veiled ad hominem attacks then consider it reciprocal).

No, I am not a PRC floozy, I am just interested in uncovering the truth and getting through the deception.....not that you will agree with this, but too bad.

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by MischeviousElf


No they don't agree with recorded history or the truth, this is not a philosophy conversation.

....and recorded history is always the truth?

Of course not, however it depends on who records that history and their sources for validity.

....since you have such a handle on the 'truth' you might like to inform the world.

I do and have been, please ask me what you would like explained.

I know this isn't a philosophy discussion, but jesus f christ you seem like one trick pony (if you can post thinly-veiled ad hominem attacks then consider it reciprocal).

Again there is no thinly veiled anything on my part, I try and be direct and honest.

If you feel the need to get angry and recipricate an imagination to me, or externalise your anger on me in post form, from a thought that is wrong in your head, well i cant stop you, but it wont make you happy, or support your stance.

No, I am not a PRC floozy, I am just interested in uncovering the truth and getting through the deception

Good we are both on the same page then.... which deception are you speaking about though?

Some factual, sourced and believable studies, texts or witness testimony please rather than pub talk on a sat night eh... the truth deserves that.

.....not that you will agree with this, but too bad.

Depends what "that" is.... but as just shown above the discussion of the truth and uncovering deception is very fine by me.

where would you like to start, what is your idea of the deception that is going on, may be a good place to open from?

Kind Regards,

Elf.


[edit on 11-5-2009 by MischeviousElf]

[edit on 11-5-2009 by MischeviousElf]

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Bear with me please, it's work time here in New Zealand and I have to go out into the field this afternoon, so I will post a 'proper' reply when I get home this evening.

We may well be on, or near the same page, with different ways of explaining ourselves?...I know it doesn't overtly seem like this, but let's see, aye?

reply to post by aorAki



I haven't forgotten and I'm not avoiding, I'm just really busy at the moment (lots of student assessment etc).

reply to post by winston_boy


I got an error page when I clicked on the source link . The Tibetan(SP?) people don't have a war like bone in the body's so unlike the Afghans they were unable to take advantage of Cold War politics to gain there freedom . It would pay to remember that the people who protest the occupation of Tibet are usually wearing clothes that are made in China .

I got an error page when I clicked on the source link .

Apologies for that. Here you go: Tibet Source Link