WIFI - Conspiracy or Scam... ?

Using your neighbours wi-fi is like using their garden hose that sits out the front of their house.

To take a step back, I'd like to say a little story about the Japanese-

I spent a summer there a few years back and if anybody's been there they know it's acceptable in many (probably most) public parks for homeless to setup these little shacks to live in. Some of them are actually pretty swank and even will have laundry drying in the wind.
Anyways, I brought my backpack tent and was "urban camping" with these homeless guys- Japanese homeless are really nice--since they dont have much crack, meth, smack, etc. And at first I was so cautious about leaving my stuff lying out in a city park when I wanted to go to the store to get a snack or whatever.
But there's a saying in Japan like,"If you leave something on the street for a year, when you return it still will be there." I think the world should be more like that.
Japan is nice.

Originally posted by Nventual
Using your neighbours wi-fi is like using their garden hose that sits out the front of their house.

And I probably wouldn't mind if my neighbor needed to borrow my hose if his broke or something and he needed it.

But when he takes my garden hose, hooks it up to his house as his incoming and only water supply, killing my water pressure and so on, then it's a bit more than just borrowing my hose.

I'd leave my WIFI open if it was just a person or 2 now and then using it for a quick lookup etc. I close mine down because I don't want long term leeches, or people using my connection for other stuff.

what is he taking ... broadband ... time ... what...>? if you dont use 100% of your connection speed 24/7 you would need a few trillion terabytes to store it but you get the drift ... use it or lose it and stealing something that cant live more than a fraction of a second anyway is rediculas

Holy crap.

The excuses and hypotheticals the thieves are coming up with to defend their thievery is mind-boggling.

reply to post by RFBurns


Actually, many courts have ruled that it's only illegal if the wifi is locked with a password, so if he's using even an open wifi with no WEP or WPA protection, it's not illegal.

Also, let's make it clear that you're not accessing someone's computer if you're using their wifi. You're not hacking them. If they have no password set up, sure, you COULD hack them- but if you just want to post on ATS, why would you?

[edit on 12-3-2009 by sadisticwoman]

I heard WIFI cause cancer. Sue your neighbor before he presses charges
But Ontopic. I think it is just greed. i mean comeon a 27,000 bill for wifi?

Originally posted by Moonsouljah

If you visit my home and leave your wallet there, may I go thru it, take your money and run up your credit cards? After all you left it at MY HOUSE!

[edit on 3/12/2009 by greeneyedleo]

As a hypothetical- did you know I visited your house? Because if not and you don't know me as a friend I'd say do whatever you want to it apart from the credit card thing.

I said: If you leave your wallet at my house, then according to the beliefs of wifi thieves, I can take the money AND run up the credit cards. After all you were dumb enough to leave it there.

I love how when it affects YOU, you suddenly set terms and conditions of what is right and wrong. I expected just as much. "As long as it doesn't negatively affect ME, then its ok". That is such a common belief amongst dishonest people.



Did you not see that people have been arrested for stealing wifi. Apparently, the law stands: stealing wifi is illegal.

Police have arrested a man for using someone else's wireless Internet network in one of the first criminal cases involving this fairly common practice.

Benjamin Smith III, 41, faces a pretrial hearing this month following his April arrest on charges of unauthorized access to a computer network, a third-degree felony.

Police say Smith admitted using the Wi-Fi signal from the home of Richard Dinon, who had noticed Smith sitting in an SUV outside Dinon's house using a laptop computer.

For the next three years, I didn't pay for Internet access. Instead, I got online via the unsecured wireless networks of my neighbors. This didn't seem illegal at the time--I mean, those signals were streaming through my apartment--but it is an actual, bona fide crime. Last year a man in Cedar Springs, Mich., was fined $400 for mooching off somebody else's wi-fi--a police officer spotted him laptop-surfing in a parked car. Apparently that violates Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 47 of the United States Code, which covers anybody who "intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access." Whatever that means--the law was passed in 1986

[edit on 3/12/2009 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by greeneyedleo


But it's only stealing if you guessed or otherwise came about their password. You will not go to jail for using an open connection.

Even in that single case, he was cruising for an open connection. One that is in your living space won't get you sent to jail.

ALSO, it's hard to know who stole your connection- especially since more people are learning how to change their MAC address. Your computer can not be identified as the one who connected to the WIFI unless your MAC address is the same.

[edit on 12-3-2009 by sadisticwoman]

The WiFi was going into this mans house and he used an UNencrypted signal from a ROUTER, not a COMPUTER as the LAW(Ridiculous ruling) states.

I leave my router open at the moment and UNencrypted because my son's laptop seems to have problems with the encryption algorithm when wireless. If someone is on my wireless ROUTER as they drive by or walk by with something that access WiFi, I really don't think I have a valid complaint.

Most people name their networks arbitrary names and anyone looking for an OPEN network most likely wouldn't be able to tell who owns it. So, if you can't tell where the signal comes from and its available then is it illegal to use it? If so then I guess they need to regulate the way they sell phones/equipments that are able to access ROUTERS(NOT computers) over WiFi networks. Maybe the companies that provide equipment to access WiFi should be held accountable for making it possible to connect to an unencrypted signal.

Maybe the people that leave their WiFi open and unencrypted should be fined for not providing enough security to their network. After all, these open networks could be used by terrorist entities for free communications.
This last one is coming soon to a story near you.

As to the OP point about WiFi... I think the guy was using Cell phone technology, GSM or G3. Most WiFi has a small foot print and covers a relativity small area, like a coffee shop. GSM/G3 uses Cell towers that cover larger areas, like square miles, depending on the terrain and buildings.

Rgds

Originally posted by badkarma90
reply to post by BornPatriot

 

But what if you're like me where you can just steal the wifi from a neighbor? ...much like I'm doing now.

I am like you.

I have multiple sources always available, not that I used them on purpose. I did realize however that I was using some by accident when my internet was down and airport kicked in. Of course, I just left airport running anyway since I wouldn't be using it unless my net was down in which case my connection would never really be severed.

I also learned how that made my computer vulnerable, after I noticed a few things I didn't recognize in my files.

You familiar with ARP Cache Posion?

...is a technique used to attack an Ethernet wired or wireless network which may allow an attacker to sniff data frames on a local area network (LAN), modify the traffic, or stop the traffic altogether (known as a denial of service attack). The attack can obviously only happen on networks that indeed make use of ARP and not another method.

The principle of ARP spoofing is to send fake, or "spoofed", ARP messages to an Ethernet LAN. Generally, the aim is to associate the attacker's MAC address with the IP address of another node (such as the default gateway). Any traffic meant for that IP address would be mistakenly sent to the attacker instead. The attacker could then choose to forward the traffic to the actual default gateway (passive sniffing) or modify the data before forwarding it (man-in-the-middle attack). The attacker could also launch a denial-of-service attack against a victim by associating a nonexistent MAC address to the IP address of the victim's default gateway.

ARP spoofing attacks can be run from a compromised host, or a hacker's machine that is connected directly onto the target Ethernet segment. Wiki

Also turns out some of the sources I picked up on airport were not residential but business in nature. In any case after a new addition to my virus software it now blocks such internet attacks. Once activated I saw that it WAS occurring should I be picking up a signal from certain sources. Once blocked I was denied access to that source.

Just be advised, it may be cool to pick up the signal, but you can leave yourself open to a "middle-man".

I keep my airport off at the moment.

- Lee

I got it.

We can't talk about drugs, a misdemeanor, but bragging about committing 3rd degree felonies is ok.

Good to know.

Originally posted by Tiloke
I got it.

We can't talk about drugs, a misdemeanor, but bragging about committing 3rd degree felonies is ok.

Good to know.

"unauthorized access" to a computer is a crime.

If I find an ftp site and log in as anonymous I can freely download whatever I find. By leaving the anonymous account active they have authorized my use. Courts have ruled on this. Check out the case where the DIEBOLD election software was download from an anonymous ftp server. The woman who downloaded it was sued by Diebold but the case was thrown out.

So if you leave a router open they obviously you don't mind if I use it. As such there is no "unauthorized access" and I have commited no crime. Unlocked routers are public routers.

Vas

Again, I'm pretty sure the original article is about 3G networks
Not WiFi.

well in all honesty we shouldnt be charging people money to use the internet and WIFI systems.... yet again we see the damage caused by the world of advertising and its monetary effect on the world.....

the sooner we have a major economic collapse and scrap the monetary system the better.....
we can live in hope i guess.........

Originally posted by Vasilis Azoth
[

So if you leave a router open they obviously you don't mind if I use it. As such there is no "unauthorized access" and I have commited no crime. Unlocked routers are public routers.

Vas

Whatever.
Unlocked front doors mean they obviously don't mind if you wank in and use the bathroom, right?

And if you leave your keys in your car you obviously don't mind if someone uses it, right?

If I have not authorized you to use it then you are by definition "unauthorized".
You do not get to steal my internet because I don't know how to protect it anymore then you get to infect my computer with a virus because I don't know how to install anti-virus.

Leaving something unprotected is not the same as wanting you to take it.



[edit on 13-3-2009 by Tiloke]

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by badkarma90
reply to post by RFBurns

 

wow, what crawled up your ass today?

Im not ACTUALLY stealing anything, you moron. There's an free internet service next door, so i just log in and i dont have to waste a bunch of money (being a poor college student and all)

the person couldve put a password or something, but they didnt. maybe they wanted someone to take advantage of the free offer. whatever.

But I digress. I'll let you go back to being a bitter little douche.


CHEERS!

Wow, enjoy your short stay at ATS.

If it's free, why do you have to steal it?

But what if you're like me where you can just steal the wifi from a neighbor? ...much like I'm doing now.

"Maybe they wanted some to take advantage". How the hell can you derive that from someone leaving their router unlocked?!?!?!?

I can't freaking believe you said that. Reminds me a lot of the people who say raped women probably wanted it because she dressed sexy.


[edit on 13-3-2009 by Tiloke]

Wow it seems like free wifi hit a nerve with a lot of people.

I don't understand how you people condemn and judge us soo much over a bit of free internet.

I mean damn, even libraries and coffeshops have free wifi!

It's not that big of a deal. You are living in the 21st century now. Get over it.



And on a side note, if the banksters hadnt burnt the house to the ground, more people might've been more willing to pay for wifi, and we wouldn't have so many "penny-pinchers".

You can not treat radio or soundwaves that are transmitted as "items". If the neighbours have their music turned up too loud and I can hear it, can I get the police to send them to jail because its a PUBLIC PREFORMANCE? If I can, then ungaurded WiFi is also a public preformance as well.

Wallets/items don't magically appear everywhere, if they did, its up to you to know that they did and put a lock on it. Smoke from cigarettes gets transmitted and now the smokers need to put a "lock" on it yet somehow I'm not stealing a part of their cig?

If it rains on my property and I stop using tap water, am I stealing from whoever I pay for water? If two of my neighbours are having sex and are being way too loud, am I invading their privacy?

This kind of thing is not an "item" as it washes over and through you.