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Muslim Preacher Mocks Fallen British Soldiers After Homecoming Parade Protest

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posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by neformore
What you'd actually be doing is pandering to the crassly-put forward image of a religious stereotype, put forward by cultural and religious bigots solely for the purpose of offending a whole host of people - deliberately - for the sake of doing it, because not all of those people who are followers of Islam see things the way that these protestors did. In other words you'd be no better than the people you are condeming here. Two sides of the same coin.


That isn't what I asked. I asked if the Muslim community would sit quietly against my obvious attempts at offense, in the same way you expect people not to be angry when Muslims are defaming our soldiers for the orders of their superiors.


Originally posted by neformoreAs for the phrase "pathetic dark ages morality and beliefs" - that can be applied to any religion.


And should be.


Originally posted by neformoreAnd if they were born in this country - then what? Why do you assume they have "come" here?


Well, I assume someone must have at some point, since Islam originated in Arabia.


Originally posted by neformore
And what of the white folks of various religious denominations who are British people and condemn this country outright - where do we send them home to?


What you don't seem to understand is that these are now sovereign nations. Are the Muslims living in Great Britain a sovereign nation? Do they have diplomatic rights? Are they native citizens? No, they are an immigrant population to a foreign nation. That's fine, if you are going to become like the host nation (aka the Normans), but its generally accepted that the native population would be given the opportunity to resist if the immigrants refuse to adapt (aka the Anglo-Saxons).

I am not, of course, suggesting a return to barbarism, but I would like to be able to resist politically, and put forward the idea of simply not giving in to every demand. I don't see why appreciating the status quo is something to demonise. It's my home, and I want it to stay how I know it for my children, because it was a good home, it raise a sensible person, and I want to pass that on. Since we're a democracy, if enough people support this view, that's how it'll be, but only if I am allowed to put this view forward.


Originally posted by neformoreDon't you think the "sending home" rhetoric is kind of pathetic, considering we live in a country that has been systematically populated by Celts, Romans, Saxons, Vikings and Normans?


And notice that in each case the defenders where given the chance to resist? King Alfred? How we became known as the English?

Also, I didn't say send anyone home, I suggest they might want to think about what is most appropriate for them. If they value being a Muslim above being British, surely we could come to arrangements for them to go to places where things like the "true Islam" can be found? I'm really not gunning after their choice here, if I found I was born in a country as a minority and the native population were highly offensive to me, but another country (and there are Muslim countries that have English as a primary language) had the sort of rules I wanted to live by, I would be able to see the pragmatism of moving to that country rather than staying and placing stress on the majority.



And yet you are not condemning their opposite number, but protesting their right to disrespect your countrymen. While I am not saying this is not an intrinsic human right, I just find it strange how you would play devil's advocate so unevenly.



Originally posted by neformoreSorry, but you're just trying to imply that I have sympathy with something I clearly do not have. Nice try, but futile.


I am not trying to suggest you support firebrand imams, I am trying to suggest that you don't seem to want focus on them at all, and when someone does disagree with them and want them removed, you suggest that we should look to our own ranks.


Originally posted by neformoreThese people have a right to say what they want to say, providing they do it peacefully. If they choose not to act in a peaceful manner, or in a manner that is inconsistent with the law of this country, then the law of this country should be enforced. If the law is enforced and they are found to be guilty, they should be either - in the case of British nationals - imprisoned in accordance with the law OR, in the case of foreign nationals, deported back to their home nations.


Yes, I completely agree, however I recently heard the East End described by one feverant Islamist as a "Muslim area". This strikes me as odd, and I wondered what the Kray twins would have had to say about it.

My point is, I'd be hung, drawn and quarted for saying "this is a Non-Muslim area, how dare he come down here!" and yet the situation is reversed it is accepted. Why is this now acceptable?


Originally posted by neformoreThat is the British way. Not knee-jerk stupidity. Anyone who doesn't see that can get on a boat and go home. To Germany. Or Norway, or Italy or France.


No, it's the liberal way. The British way, historically, was never like that.



Originally posted by stumason
Citing litter and tidy gardens as a sign of national pride is dubious, at best.


I don't see why. It is the little things like this that show your average person is motivated by a sense of pride - they want their land to look nice. English people just don't care.


Originally posted by stumasonIn rural England,... English pride alive and well.


Maybe in Yorkshire/Norfolk areas, but I find down the south it is a bit thin on the ground.


Originally posted by stumasonMedieval England through to the Second World War and everything in between, spending a whole term on each period.


No, as I recall we touched on the Middle Ages, then focused on the two World Wars. The empire was just never mentioned, it was always simply "Britain". I then reached year 10 and I chose Geography. On retrospect, this was a giant mistake as I enjoy history greatly.




posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Ownification
 


Mutiny and refusal to fight is very rare in the British Armed forces, owning mainly due to the long history of professional volunteers as opposed to conscripted citizens. You would not see any soldier refuse to fight, not because of a fear of punishment, but from a professional pride and a sense of honour towards their comrades.

I know they are volunteers, but they signed up to defend the realm and serve Her Majesty. They sign up for a career and training that the forces offer. You will be hard pressed to find a volunteer who signed up to "kill towel heads" or "murder babies", as put by the protesters. They do not get to choose their deployment and may well disagree, but as stated above, professional pride and the esprit du corps in the British Forces (which is probably among the highest in the world) will see them do their duty.

Here is what you are saying, just incase you didn't notice it.

1. The British soldiers would follow command no matter what because of the British culture.
2. They are not responsible for any wrong doing since it is merely the culture of British to follow orders.

Here is my point simple and plain to counter:

1. If the soldiers were ordered to jump off the building would they do it?
2. I don't know about the British culture, but from what you are stating: Should more focus, to change this specific culture be implemented since it is not doing good for any of us except for the individuals in control.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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I see Britain on a collision course to an apologist state trying to morally rectify historical grievances. There is a difference between compassion and guilt.

On a personal level, in the few times I've been confronted by a black or Muslim who accuses me of being part of some Western white conspiracy to keep them down, I retort:

"Look, this is the 21st Century. My ancestors, even my father, lived in Europe in dreadful conditions, stripped of rights, persecuted, as much or more than yours.

No one in my family was a slaveowner, banker, politician. And even if they were, I inherited nothing from them except a bit of hand me down culture andmy wits.

I am not responsible for anything that happened before I was born. No one is or should be."



Mike F



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by TheAmused


What is going on over there in UK?
If this happen here in America we would have shot em on the spot..

So from now on all Uk need not talk about how cowardly Americans are.

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


No we'll just relate you to violent psychopaths who have no way of dealing with any challenge apart from shooting them.

-- In regards to the issue at hand: These hate preachers although i disgree with what they have to say, they DO have the right so say it....

But i'm glad the crowd reacted the way they did... Show them that we disagree with their opinions.


Shooting people we disagree with is the American way. Obviously, any rational people with even an iota of self respect would see this an not only a point of "contention" but more an affront on their country that cannot be tolerated and left unanswered.

We did the same to you lot 300 odd years ago when we showed our collective disapproval against the "Red Coats" . We also showed our collective disapproval on the Taliban by using thermobaric weapons on their homes and caves. Such "messages" have no room for obfuscation or equivocation hence our points are conveyed clearly.

Since everybody knows this is how its done in America we dont have our politicians genuflecting before muslims in our country to satiate their medieval philosophies and customs or their psychotic leaders and spokesmen.

Britain and the world would be wise to learn to learn from our example.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by Ownification
 

All I can say is-

When you join the armed forces, you swear an oath to queen and country.

Only a pathetic excuse for a man would violate that.


Wow, what a slave mentality
If people aren't a slave like you they are pathetic?

LOL, I don't think so!

Tell me, how can this world change for the better when there are so many like you who support corruption?

If a war is corrupt, and you know it, but still say it's wrong not to fight after giving an oath..... how does this planet even stand a chance?


A war is corrupt ? Which war ? And who says so ?

Just because some people think it is corrupt doesnt mean its true or a fact.

A soldiers job is to follow orders and do his duty. That is what they are trained to do. That is what a soldier is. Of course, participating in any war crimes under orders or not is not excusable but no soldier has the right to decide if he wants to go to war or not. There are very specific rules regarding what orders a soldier can question and what order a soldier cant.

If is war is just or not, is decided by governments and politicians not soldiers.
Its ridiculous to call them slaves for doing their jobs, doing what they were trained to do.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by Ownification
 


1. If the soldiers were ordered to jump off the building would they do it?
2. I don't know about the British culture, but from what you are stating: Should more focus, to change this specific culture be implemented since it is not doing good for any of us except for the individuals in control.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
!/ If a British soldier was ordered to jump off a building by a superior they most probably would do without question. They don't question their superiors they just do as ordered.
2/ What on earth are you saying? If you're saying that we are being mislead by our government then yes I would agree with you but this doesn't change the fact that when your a proffessional soldier and you are ordered to do something you do it without question! The individuals in control may be wrong, they may be corrupt but this is not something that the average soldier in the field either questions or queries.
Those brave soldiers are there to do a job and they are the best at doing that said job.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:59 PM
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If they wanted to protest they should stand outside Parliament where the decision is made to send our troops in to action.

Our servicemen and woman are only doing their duty they have honoured an oath to protect this country and they did it well as they always do and did not deserve to come back to some ranting crowd.

Makes me sick and if I had been the policeman in charge down there those protesters would have been carted off.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
!/ If a British soldier was ordered to jump off a building by a superior they most probably would do without question. They don't question their superiors they just do as ordered.


Of course, if it was a bungalow.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by Mike_A

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
!/ If a British soldier was ordered to jump off a building by a superior they most probably would do without question. They don't question their superiors they just do as ordered.


Of course, if it was a bungalow.



Doesn't matter if it's a bungalow or a block of flats! If the average British soldier is ordered to do something he does so without question.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Doesn't matter if it's a bungalow or a block of flats! If the average British soldier is ordered to do something he does so without question.


No he doesn't, have you ever been anywhere near a soldier in your life?



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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OH God, nobody likes the cops or the soldiers till they need them.
not one line



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 11:03 AM
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Bodrul has denounced Jihadist and extremists on numerous occasions on ATS. He is someone I consider a good friend and a fellow Brit, an attack on him is an attack on all British members on this site.

If certain American members cannot take criticism - do us a favour and join another site. Preferably stormfront.

Your xenophobic attitude is not welcomed here.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


No he doesn't, have you ever been anywhere near a soldier in your life?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've got many friends who where in Ireland when the troubles were at there peak and many times they were told, not asked, to go into danger zones where they knew they could be killed. Nobody questioned it. Nobody even thought to ask why, they just did as they were told.
You seem to have a very warped idea of what the army is all about!



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 11:54 AM
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One of the protesters has been suspended from his job at Heathrow following his part in the protest. The protester was identified by police on CCTV. The point is, it is ok to have your freedom of speech, but if it's not in the public interest, or against public interest, you might pay for your actions.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:04 PM
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A soldier jumps off of a bridge if he is commanded to because he has learned to trust those giving the commands to a degree that he feels it is in his best interests, or those for whom he is fighting, to follow those orders.

For example, you are on top of a building and your Sargent tells you to jump, you jump, because you assume he has a good reason for telling you to do this, such as the building is about to blow up and your only hope of survival is to jump.

Something all too many people want to ignore, is that for what ever reason the invasion of Iraq was conducted, the British and U.S. soldiers, and the rest of the soldiers who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan have done a great job. The people doing all of the murdering in Iraq and Afghanistan are the Islamic extremists who care nothing for peace, and do not care who they kill in order to get their way. In other words, these Muslim extremists are animals.

The people who mocked this British soldier who gave his life defending freedom, freedom for a people in a foreign land no less, are either extremely ignorant, or supporters of murder themselves. Chances are that most of the people mocking this soldier who fought the good fight are simply ignorant. Those few who are not ignorant, but willful supporters of the enemy, and these Muslim extremists are our enemies, are traitors and deserve to be taken out and shot.

War isn't pretty, it isn't nice, but we (as in all people who believe in freedom and equal rights for all, including women) are in a war against radical Islam. Either you get this, or you are a fool.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
You seem to have a very warped idea of what the army is all about!


Have you ever been in the army? I can’t claim to be Rambo but I spent a bit of time in the TA (Green Howards) with plenty of the old and bold including Falklands vets. None of them would be stupid enough to jump off a ten story building because someone with pips tells them to.


There is a huge difference between following a legal order that involves risk and jumping to certain death for no reason.

Soldiers are not unthinking morons.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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firstly thanks stumason & infinite


still waiting for Blaine91555 reply on where he got that, will be intresting to find out.

I find it humrous the the things that are coming from US members
i was watching discovery and they did a episode on Nazi America (National geographic) channel.nationalgeographic.com...-Videos/03103_04

video

www.hulu.com...

(only works in US)

there are thousends of peope split into splinter cells around the US
whom preach hate and death for anything that isnt white,
their leaders see Hitler as the second coming of christ,
they burn books and the torah on Hitlers birthday and stream it world wide,

they even condone the attack of others and say its a worthy sacrafice for the cause if one of their own does the attack.

they hold rallys and get police protection and the people who protest against them are arrested. example when they go down capital hill.

This isnt just the westbrough baptist church which pickets funerals.

Its hilerious and funny how some people pump up their chests and say
here we do it this way, when in reality they dont do squat all, as fantics have freedom of speach. which isnt just a liberty for fanatical muslims.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b

The people who mocked this British soldier who gave his life defending freedom, freedom for a people in a foreign land no less, are either extremely ignorant, or supporters of murder themselves. Chances are that most of the people mocking this soldier who fought the good fight are simply ignorant. Those few who are not ignorant, but willful supporters of the enemy, and these Muslim extremists are our enemies, are traitors and deserve to be taken out and shot.

War isn't pretty, it isn't nice, but we (as in all people who believe in freedom and equal rights for all, including women) are in a war against radical Islam.




Amen.

Radical Islam has provoked the West, most specifically America and Britain into a confrontation. The hope is the raging fires can be put out preventing a world scale conflagration. No one wants to see thousands of deaths in a war. But if it prevents millions more, it has been worthwhile.

This may be uncomfortable for many.

I've been a bit too hard on the British in my disappointment at developments in the last few years. But the new thinking within is that Britain should abandon the principles it has always stood for.

Goodwill and diplomacy has been tried. The results are not showing. Sometimes a more hardline approach is necessary.


Mike F



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by bodrul
 


Yep, when the Nazi's march in the U.S., and the rest of the hate groups, they need police protections just like the hate groups in the U.K. need police protection when they spew their vile. NAZI's, KKK, and Muslim extremists, they are all about the same.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by Swatman
go back to your country no one wants you here


Shouldn't have invited them in first place than.



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