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Muslim Preacher Mocks Fallen British Soldiers After Homecoming Parade Protest

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posted on Mar, 13 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by Ownification
 


Mutiny and refusal to fight is very rare in the British Armed forces, owning mainly due to the long history of professional volunteers as opposed to conscripted citizens. You would not see any soldier refuse to fight, not because of a fear of punishment, but from a professional pride and a sense of honour towards their comrades.

I know they are volunteers, but they signed up to defend the realm and serve Her Majesty. They sign up for a career and training that the forces offer. You will be hard pressed to find a volunteer who signed up to "kill towel heads" or "murder babies", as put by the protesters. They do not get to choose their deployment and may well disagree, but as stated above, professional pride and the esprit du corps in the British Forces (which is probably among the highest in the world) will see them do their duty.




posted on Mar, 13 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by Ownification
 

All I can say is-

When you join the armed forces, you swear an oath to queen and country.

Only a pathetic excuse for a man would violate that.



posted on Mar, 13 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by Ownification
 

All I can say is-

When you join the armed forces, you swear an oath to queen and country.

Only a pathetic excuse for a man would violate that.


Wow, what a slave mentality
If people aren't a slave like you they are pathetic?

LOL, I don't think so!

Tell me, how can this world change for the better when there are so many like you who support corruption?

If a war is corrupt, and you know it, but still say it's wrong not to fight after giving an oath..... how does this planet even stand a chance?



posted on Mar, 13 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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I find it quite amusing that People on this thread are accusing the British Army of the senseless murders of Women and children. The British Army at present are in Afghanistan, and the last time I looked the Afghan people want the coalition troops there because they're a whole lot better than the despicable Taliban.

It's not the British troops that are murderers, it's the Taliban that murdered anybody who didn't agree with their ways and values. The Taliban that suppressed education, sports, Music and the most simplest of basic human rights. Why don't you ask the Aghan people what they think of our troops? I can guarantee you that the majority are very happy to have coalition there protecting them from the Taliban.

These same morons who are protesting against our soldiers are the same people who support extremism. The same people who support the way of the Taliban. What kind of people support such a way of living?

These people are scum and should be ignored. They're a pitiful minority who sit on the sidelines and know nothing of the hardships that the people of Iraq and Afghanistan have had to endure under the regimes of Saddam and the Taliban.



[edit on 13-3-2009 by paul76]



posted on Mar, 13 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


British troops are legally bound to follow any lawful order given to them by their designated superiors. At the time of the Iraq war by all British legal standards the war was legal; under the current situation however the legality of the invasion is irrelevant since the British armed forces have a mandate from the UK parliament, UN and Iraq.

The same goes for Afghanistan. There is no legal reason to refuse any deployment.

Therefore to take an oath, accept payment from the British public but refuse legal orders based on a whim is pathetic. To do otherwise is not being a slave it is doing ones job to the standard that is expected.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 02:53 AM
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I spent a good part of my life in England. Love the cities and the countryside, the people, the culture, the history.

But once Englishmen were proud of themselves, their intellectual and cultural accomplishments, the exceptional people they produced, being the home of representational government, and more.

Now it seems they just want to lie down and be kicked.


Mike F



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 03:51 AM
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hate preachers.........as ive said ais preach hatred and division.
they infiltrate peaceful protests and cause trouble therby undermining the whole protest.
of course co pro intel have been noticed to do the same thing,for they are the same!.
do not forget von brauhns message in the 1970's that the war on terror would be one big lie,and it is,its all designed ,all created which is why most of the terrorist groups were started by governmental bodies and the like.

its to divide the west and islam and cause warfare in the holy land with the ultimate intent of a jihad being made against the west.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


British troops are legally bound to follow any lawful order given to them by their designated superiors. At the time of the Iraq war by all British legal standards the war was legal; under the current situation however the legality of the invasion is irrelevant since the British armed forces have a mandate from the UK parliament, UN and Iraq.

The same goes for Afghanistan. There is no legal reason to refuse any deployment.

Therefore to take an oath, accept payment from the British public but refuse legal orders based on a whim is pathetic. To do otherwise is not being a slave it is doing ones job to the standard that is expected.


they never got a mandate from the un,they tried and failed,parliament was coerced into it....its what the all the havoc about the minutes of the parliamentary debate leading up to the iraq war is all about,it was so bad the reasons cited for their continued secrecy is "it is to damaging to democracy"....so parliament was overidden.
iraq had no say,if you remember correctly iraq was kinda against the war,and the current government is nothing but a puppet of the usa,the iraqi population know that.

i believe accepting to fight an illegal war is cowardice,doing as your told is nothing but an excuse.
never should a human being compramise the law,that which is good by saying im taking taking orders,i dont have a choice,quit the army...stage a protest.
the unethical use of the worlds militaries is the reason why so much unjust war occurs,either the people at the bottom (the soildiers)have to make a stand,the public do or the power players(politicians and generals) do.
somebody has to but no one is.

the war was illegal everyone knows it but that illegality was hidden from the world and media managed,intelligence faked,propaganda espoused...it was one big lie even to the point that evidence for that lie is still being hidden from the public with miserable excuses "its to damaging to democracy"



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by Ownification
 

All I can say is-

When you join the armed forces, you swear an oath to queen and country.

Only a pathetic excuse for a man would violate that.


and the iraq war has significantly damaged queen and country,queen and country were betrayed.
obeying orders does not equate to corectness,what does is performing the right actions which benifit the country the most.
stopping the iraq war at the time would have been the most benififical to queen and country.

evil is often done by men taking orders,this must change, men must act out of logic and morality not loyalty........if loyalty is everything then those following orders will as they always have commit bad deeds.

loyalty is the reason why bad men gain power,why dictatorships thrive......

its about morality and the common good eferyone should always act for the common good not for their apparent superior.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 04:35 AM
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Originally posted by mmiichael
I spent a good part of my life in England. Love the cities and the countryside, the people, the culture, the history.

But once Englishmen were proud of themselves, their intellectual and cultural accomplishments, the exceptional people they produced, being the home of representational government, and more.

Now it seems they just want to lie down and be kicked.


Rubbish.

We have tolerance. We don't have infantile knee-jerk reactions. We understand, because of diversity here, that you cannot blame all of lifes problems on one section of society, because everyone is different. You are trying to project some kind of eskwed version of "patriotism at any cost" onto English people. We don't see it that way. We learnt that lesson when we fought the Nazi's, thank you very much - that was their mindset as well.

We see our country, and we love our country, but at the same time the overall majority of us have a level of tolerance far above the infantile, and the knee-jerk, and the resort to violence. We don't do drama for the sake of it

Your "patriotic logic" is seriously flawed. If we applied it to real life situations you would have had us go into Ireland and flatten it because of what the IRA did to us. But not all Irish people felt the same way as the IRA did. In the same manner not all muslim people feel the same way that these people do.

And these people - as distasteful as their message may be - actually did nothing illegal. They stood, they protested and they moved away when the police asked them to. Apparently - according to what I've seen written in this thread - there are people that would have had them shot for doing that, or imprisoned.

The people calling for those actions are no better than terrorists and dictators. They want to apply the same methods they supposedly despise and condemn in others in order to silence a viewpoint.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
Rubbish.


I hate to say it, but I think he does have a point.


Originally posted by neformoreWe have tolerance. We don't have infantile knee-jerk reactions. We understand, because of diversity here, that you cannot blame all of lifes problems on one section of society, because everyone is different. You are trying to project some kind of eskwed version of "patriotism at any cost" onto English people. We don't see it that way. We learnt that lesson when we fought the Nazi's, thank you very much - that was their mindset as well.


While I can't disagree with what you say here, tolerance will be our undoing, I think. We don't ask people to be tolerant of the English, in England (or Scotland, NIreland and Wales respectively) and this has to stop.

To be tolerant of a people within their own country seems like common sense to me - if anything, that is the only place you should feel that you must be tolerant of something.

However, various ethnic minorities who have decided to move over and set up shop like it's some kind of divine right decide to fire their mouths off at the very people who's clemency enables them to voice that kind of opinion in the first place. If we held the sort of ideals and rules that their parent countries do, they may have found themselves minus a few body parts as punishment.


Originally posted by neformoreWe see our country, and we love our country, but at the same time the overall majority of us have a level of tolerance far above the infantile, and the knee-jerk, and the resort to violence. We don't do drama for the sake of it


No, we don't love our country. The Germans love their country. How do I know this? Because in each German town, each building is individual. There is very little litter on the streets. They take care of their gardens. In short, they care about the place in which they live.

English people, especially the latest generation, just go along to get along. There is no love of what we have accomplished since Alfred the Great defined the English identity because it has been systematically eroded from all aspects of British life. I didn't learn about the British Empire until I was well into my twenties. Why did I not learn this at school? It would seem logical that if your country dominated the globe for 200 years and was actually the largest empire in human history, that it would be an important point in your history, and you might want to at least mention it. It seems as if we are ashamed of our own success.


Originally posted by neformoreYour "patriotic logic" is seriously flawed. If we applied it to real life situations you would have had us go into Ireland and flatten it because of what the IRA did to us. But not all Irish people felt the same way as the IRA did. In the same manner not all muslim people feel the same way that these people do.


This is my real fear about English patriotism - we are stubborn. We really did not like to lose (much like the Romans) and therefore we would take quite drastic action.

However, if the Irish are unable or unwilling to control the radical elements in their society that are killing British citizens (who are British by choice, in the case of NI) then are we to allow it to continue?


Originally posted by neformoreAnd these people - as distasteful as their message may be - actually did nothing illegal. They stood, they protested and they moved away when the police asked them to. Apparently - according to what I've seen written in this thread - there are people that would have had them shot for doing that, or imprisoned.


And when I create a parody cartoon strip of Muhammad seducing a six-year-old, I will have broken no English laws. Do you think it will just end there, though? What happened to respect, because it is a two-way street. If you don't want me mocking your pathetic, Dark-Ages morality and beliefs, you should show the same consideration to me that I will be showing to you.

I don't believe they should be executed, of course, but I believe they need to do some navel gazing and be honest about why they are here, and not in a country that agrees with their philosophies. Our country would be anathema to their minds, as far as I can see, so why come?



Originally posted by neformoreThe people calling for those actions are no better than terrorists and dictators. They want to apply the same methods they supposedly despise and condemn in others in order to silence a viewpoint.


And yet you are not condemning their opposite number, but protesting their right to disrespect your countrymen. While I am not saying this is not an intrinsic human right, I just find it strange how you would play devil's advocate so unevenly.



"If the English army had been beaten at Waterloo, what would have been the use of those numerous bodies of troops, of Prussians, Austrians, Germans, and Spaniards, which were advancing by forced marches to the Rhine, the Alps, and the Pyrenees?"




"A French soldier would not be equal to more than one English soldier, but he would not be afraid to meet two Dutchmen, Prussians, or soldiers of the Confederation."


The above quotes are from Napoleon Bonaparte. I find it unlikely that he would say the same thing about the English today.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 09:54 AM
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Muslims have preachers?

New to me.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by The Last Man on Earth
 


There are plenty of people proud of England, more than you may think. I myself am a member of a particular party espousing such things, which has thousands of members.

Citing litter and tidy gardens as a sign of national pride is dubious, at best.

In rural England, you will find many villages take pride in yearly "Best Village Competitions". In fact, it is in Rural England, away from the melting pots of the big cities, that you will find English pride alive and well.

As for you not learning of the British Empire until your 20's, I am absolutley shocked.

When I was in secondary school during the 90's (1993-1998), every term from Year 7 to year 9, history classes progressed from Medieval England through to the Second World War and everything in between, spending a whole term on each period.

I went to a state school and it is part of the Curriculum, so if you didn't learn it, I doubt it was due to the school or system failing you as my own experience contradicts yours totally.

English pride is alive and well, it is you who chooses not to see it. May I direct you to the link in my sig....



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Then it's time to be a patriotic deserter!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

British soldiers don't desert. It's not in their nature! I doubt they would even understand the principle of deserting and running away from a fight. As far as I know, neither do American GI's. . . Did deserting GI's really bring about the end of the Vietnam conflict? I doubt it very much.
The British have had the biggest empire in the world purely because their soldiers stand their ground and faced the enemy even when they were massively outnumbered. If you're a Brit and have been schooled in this country surely you should have been taught this?



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


Evidentally, some "schools" have let down some people. Although I suspect the real reason is people not paying attention during history.

I knew many kids at school who saw history as a "doss" lesson and even today, know fudge all about British history yet claim they weren't taught it, despite me being in the same school and knowing they were.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
And when I create a parody cartoon strip of Muhammad seducing a six-year-old, I will have broken no English laws. Do you think it will just end there, though? What happened to respect, because it is a two-way street. If you don't want me mocking your pathetic, Dark-Ages morality and beliefs, you should show the same consideration to me that I will be showing to you.


What you'd actually be doing is pandering to the crassly-put forward image of a religious stereotype, put forward by cultural and religious bigots solely for the purpose of offending a whole host of people - deliberately - for the sake of doing it, because not all of those people who are followers of Islam see things the way that these protestors did. In other words you'd be no better than the people you are condeming here. Two sides of the same coin.

As for the phrase "pathetic dark ages morality and beliefs" - that can be applied to any religion.



I don't believe they should be executed, of course, but I believe they need to do some navel gazing and be honest about why they are here, and not in a country that agrees with their philosophies. Our country would be anathema to their minds, as far as I can see, so why come?


And if they were born in this country - then what? Why do you assume they have "come" here?

And what of the white folks of various religious denominations who are British people and condemn this country outright - where do we send them home to? Don't you think the "sending home" rhetoric is kind of pathetic, considering we live in a country that has been systematically populated by Celts, Romans, Saxons, Vikings and Normans?



And yet you are not condemning their opposite number, but protesting their right to disrespect your countrymen. While I am not saying this is not an intrinsic human right, I just find it strange how you would play devil's advocate so unevenly.


Why do I need to condemn their opposite number, when its so obvious that I am against the kind of action the poster was putting forward? Its obvious that I condem that kind of behaviour. Do you start every post that you write on this subject with "I condemn terrorists and dictators?" No, you don't. Does this mean you support them?

Sorry, but you're just trying to imply that I have sympathy with something I clearly do not have. Nice try, but futile.

These people have a right to say what they want to say, providing they do it peacefully. If they choose not to act in a peaceful manner, or in a manner that is inconsistent with the law of this country, then the law of this country should be enforced. If the law is enforced and they are found to be guilty, they should be either - in the case of British nationals - imprisoned in accordance with the law OR, in the case of foreign nationals, deported back to their home nations.

That is the British way. Not knee-jerk stupidity. Anyone who doesn't see that can get on a boat and go home. To Germany. Or Norway, or Italy or France.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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I've never understood the foreigners who come to live in this country. They obviously come here because of the freedoms and benefits freely available to all who reside here, yet the moment they get their feet under the table they turn on the very people who have fought for those human rights and liberties that they now so freely enjoy.
With the fear of sounding rascist, and I'm not, trust me, I would simply offer to buy these people an air ticket to the country of their choosing and simply wave them off at the airport! We all have the right to demonstrate in this country, but these people are abusing that right and against our own people to boot.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by welivefortheson
 



they never got a mandate from the un


But that doesn’t have any real bearing on UK law. This would only affect the government not the people. The legal argument however was that previous resolutions provided a mandate, this was given blessing by the Attorney General and parliament. Personally I think this holds water and the government get off on a technicality.

But you know that the NATO intervention in Kosovo did not have UN approval right? That wasn’t declared a heinous illegal war; in reality the UN has very little, if any authority.

You can say now that parliament was coerced and that people were mislead but that wasn’t to be known by the soldiers at the time.


iraq had no say,if you remember correctly iraq was kinda against the war,and the current government is nothing but a puppet of the usa


I didn’t say Iraq had a say during the invasion I said the current UK presence has a mandate from the Iraqi government. Again whether you think the current government is a puppet or not (the democratic elections and their actions against US wishes would suggest otherwise) is irrelevant. I can’t refuse a parking ticket and claim it’s because I don’t think Brown is a legitimate PM. Every relevant legal body says it is legal.


i believe accepting to fight an illegal war is cowardice,doing as your told is nothing but an excuse.


You’re missing the point, the Iraq war has not been declared illegal by any authoritative body. It may seem obvious to you that it is but that isn’t how the law works.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I've never understood the foreigners who come to live in this country. They obviously come here because of the freedoms and benefits freely available to all who reside here, yet the moment they get their feet under the table they turn on the very people who have fought for those human rights and liberties that they now so freely enjoy.


This is something I don't understand myself. The vast majority of people who come to England do so voluntarily - it's very few that are genuine asylum seekers with literally nowhere else to go.*

Now if I was to move abroad and go to live somewhere else, it'd would be because that country's lifestyle appealed to me; I'd go there because I liked the way that country was set up. The idea of going to a country, knowing full well how it was run in advance - England and the rest of Britain aren't behind some wall of silence and are 'mystery countries' - but then getting there and demanding for changes is too bizarre for me to get my head around. I don't order a seasonal salad and then complain because it doesn't taste of pie and chips. Baffling.

Whilst I have no love for ex-pat communities that create little English ghettos, at least they go for the sun, sea and sand and don't want to change the country they've moved too.


*many of them pass through several other European countries to get to these Islands.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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I keep reading a lot of apologies.

Tolerance and understanding are hallmarks of a civilized society.

But so is self-respect.

I think with too many attempts to appease you reach point at which you can say your culture and tradition are being raped.

I think that line has been crossed.


Mike F

[edit on 14-3-2009 by mmiichael]



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