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Are there ANY churches out there that don't teach pre-trib?

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posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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I am having such a hard time in my area finding a church that does NOT believe in the pre-trib thoery. I am begining to believe they don't exist. Does anyone know of any churches that believe Jesus is only comming ONCE?




posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Just start your own. Its worked before. You may even get a tax break. Good luck!!



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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There is some disagreement on the timing of the Rapture at my church. Our Pastor just says, "In regard to the Second Coming, we are for it!"

I had a conversation with our Associate Pastor on this subject just this past weekend, and he believes in a mid-trib Rapture. He says Christ's Olivet Discourse lines up directly with Revelation, and it is clear to him the Rapture doesn't occur until after the opening of the Seventh Seal. I haven't followed up on the conversation with my own reading and investigation yet, but I plan to.



Mark 13

24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,

25 AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.

26 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.

27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.



[edit on 11-3-2009 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising



Mark 13

24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
25 AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.

26 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.

27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.



Translation:

On a cloudy day during a new moon, something will fall from the sky (satellite debris
) The powers (US, Russia, China) will be shaken (OMG! MA SATELLITE!!!)

They will see a guy coming through the clouds with some cool gear that shines.

Then he will send forth people from the heavens (E.T.s) and they will scoop up a bunch of us into their space ships. People from all over the world will get to go and it will be E.T.s from all over the universe.

(strictly opinion)



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Icarus Rising
 

See, I take that verse as bieng post trib. AFTER the tribulation Jesus comes. The sun darkening and moon not giving light, stars falling is when Jesus comes. IMO he is telling us this so we will not be decieved.
Mark 13:21-23
21At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ[a]!' or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. 22For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible. 23So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

so the verses you quoted tell us exactly to the tee what will happen at Christs return so we will no be decieved.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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The beast is in control of the earth and then there will be only 144,000 of his people left, he comes to prevent them from being killed. He said, "Unless those days were cut short no flesh should be saved, when he comes back then he kills all those armies that were mustered against him. The battle of Armegedon I believe.

I think the misconception comes in because it is written in Revelation about a 1st Resurection. This resurection was for those beheaded for the testimony of Jesus Christ, the rest of the dead where not risen until after the 1000 year reign on earth. Then judgment and the new heaven and the new earth.

The Best source of pure knowledge is the King James or New King James, the other versions actually came from a translation done by pagans (those without a God) known as the lesser text so be careful



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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There are several fundamentalist Pentecostal churches that don't teach pre-trib. They teach that believers will have to go through the first 31/2 years of the tribulation, and then, if they are faithful they will be raptured.
If someone can show me the actual teaching of the rapture in the bible, I would really appreciated it. I can only find ONE verse that hints at it. My undersanding of Rapture doctrine is that it was started by a Bishop Darby in Ireland, after some supposed "prophocies" by some teenager in Ireland. Her symptoms sounded suspiciously like schizophrenia. Anyone have any ideas?



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by kettlebellysmith
 


Here is a link that I've been reading......www.tribwatch.com...
Don't know if it helps......but its a start



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Just go to any standard Roman Catholic church. They don't go along with all this "tribulation" nonsense. As far as they're concerned, Jesus showed up once and that was plenty for anybody. The word and the way are clear; he freed humanity from Original Sin; he allowed people to gain knowledge of the Holy Spirit and attain grace. What more is there for him to do?

Catholics pretty much see the battle depicted in Revelation as a symbolic battle that happens inside each person as they face the world, battle their own doubts, and come to accept the truth of Christ. They generally find the idea that Jesus did not complete his mission when he was here on Earth before to be just ridiculous and a little insulting. Jesus already won. Salvation is here, take it.

They figure that only people who want you to believe there's another battle waiting in the future are those who want to make money from your fear and ignorance.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by Nohup
 


I am sorry...I believe no, I know there will be a second comming. I am trying to find a church that believes as I do that the second comming only happens ONCE at the end of the tribulation. If I am wrong, then great, I wont have to go through the tribulation but it bothers me to no end that churches want to send "feel good" sermons, i believe they do it to get more people to attend. I feel they should be preparing people for the end not telling them "be good, be kind, do nice things, believe in God and he will take you to heaven and you wont have to deal with the end"



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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Why do you even worry that the church that you choose have all of the beliefs that you do? Churches should be a place of fellowship and should NEVER be used as the sole learning experience.

This is a DISTRACTION from where you attention should be focused, namely on God and your relationship with Him... please consider this.


Originally posted by telepathicjon
The Best source of pure knowledge is the King James or New King James, the other versions actually came from a translation done by pagans (those without a God) known as the lesser text so be careful


Telepathicjon, the BEST source of pure knowledge is GOD HIMSELF. Please do not overlook this and do not ever let any interpretation of the Bible become a DISTRACTION from your PERSONAL relationship with God. He is the absolute best source.. go to Him.

[edit on 11/3/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


I understand. Your right 100%. I just want a good place for my kids to learn too. thanks



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by concerned190
reply to post by Nohup


I can only add the previous recommendation of Catholicism, that may be beyond the pale for you but if you were interested might I reccomend the following two (brief) sections of the Catechism of the Catholic Church which gives a summary of Catholic believes concerning the current era and the second coming. This is an expansion of the concluding clauses on the fundamental expression of the Catholic faith as prayed each week - The Creed. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on them if you would care to.

www.vatican.va...
www.vatican.va...

To wet your appetite, here I paste the summary of the two sections from the Catechism itself:


680 Christ the Lord already reigns through the Church, but all the things of this world are not yet subjected to him. the triumph of Christ's kingdom will not come about without one last assault by the powers of evil.

681 On Judgement Day at the end of the world, Christ will come in glory to achieve the definitive triumph of good over evil which, like the wheat and the tares, have grown up together in the course of history.

682 When he comes at the end of time to judge the living and the dead, the glorious Christ will reveal the secret disposition of hearts and will render to each man according to his works, and according to his acceptance or refusal of grace.


CCC 680-682

[edit on 11/3/09 by Supercertari]



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:34 PM
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Thankyou very much for the post. I appriciate it but right now, I am only interested in what the bible says. I will read the links that you have posted though. thanks again.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by concerned190
 


My pleasure

I hope when you do read them you'll be pleasantly surprised by the references and footnotes which are almost entirely scriptural.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Nohup
 


Have to disagree with you there. There will undoubtedly be a Second Coming of Jesus Christ.



John 14

2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

4"And you know the way where I am going."


As for Scritural evidence of the Rapture,



1 Thessalonians

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Revelation 15

1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished.

2 And I saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, holding harps of God.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by concerned190
Does anyone know of any churches that believe Jesus is only comming ONCE?


All the Christian churches that are not part of the rapture cult.

One billion Catholics
Multi-Millions of Episcopalians.
Multi-Millions of Lutherans.
Most Methodists.

Get away from the fundamentalist christian churches and you won't have a problem finding a non-rapture cult christian church.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
As for Scritural evidence of the Rapture,

There is no scriptural evidence of a rapture. Just bad interpretation.
It's all been discussed in BTS.
Rapture has been debunked.
It was invented by failed Anglican priest Nelson Darby in the 1800s.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by concerned190
Does anyone know of any churches that believe Jesus is only comming ONCE?


One billion Catholics
Multi-Millions of Episcopalians.
Multi-Millions of Lutherans.
Most Methodists.


Are you saying these are or are not pre trib believers?



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


How much Scriptural evidence is there for transubstantiation of the eucharist? Indulgences? Purgatory?

The evidence for the Rapture has been there all along. Just because Darby got it wrong doesn't mean it won't happen in the form God intends. Everything else is just opinion.

[edit on 11-3-2009 by Icarus Rising]



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