Do you think they should be outlawed? If not, what beneficial use could they have in a society?

The couple that walked thru the beating disgusts me the most.

The main problem with anyone carrying a gun is its hard to distinguish who is packing to protect, and who is packing to harm.



[edit on 20-5-2009 by wclv13]

Originally posted by wclv13
The main problem with anyone carrying a gun is its hard to distinguish who is packing to protect, and who is packing to harm.

I do not understand that. With conceiled carry it won't be obvious until something is happening, so there is no need to distinguish (unless your a cop and then there are licenses).

CC means it MUST be conceiled, so if someone is flashing it around under their coat in an obvious way something is wrong. If they are 17 and their pants are falling down, and they have a huge handgun tucked into the waistband, that means it is probably NOT legal.


[edit on 20-5-2009 by Sonya610]

I understand the physical part of carrying a gun. However, I was thinking about the mindset of the person carrying the concealed wep. Is it for harm or good?

Reminds me of the saying from that Superhero show "what will you do with your powers?"

Made a decision long ago, and I am a bit old, that I cannot trust myself with a gun to make the right decision. Maybe others can, but I stand by the other guy who says he would rather fight with fists.

Originally posted by wclv13
Reminds me of the saying from that Superhero show "what will you do with your powers?"

That right there is the wrong attitude. If that's how you perceive a gun than you chose wisely.

Once I started carrying I avoided all sorts of confrontation I would have previously been glad to escalate. The last thing on Earth I want to do is pull it on another human being yet I carry it everyday just in case I have to.

Originally posted by NeuroStability
Do you think they should be outlawed? If not, what beneficial use could they have in a society?

I do think that society's goal should be to outlaw guns, yes. However, it wouldn't be my starting point for addressing the problem.

I live in the UK, where guns are effectively outlawed and most people are happily able to live without fearing being shot. There's no question that in the US, where gun ownership is widespread, people's chances of being shot are much greater.

What I'm suggesting is that though outlawing guns should be part of, as it were, the ultimate prize for society, it shouldn't be seen as the answer to all the problems. For example, if you outlaw guns it follows that you should also outlaw knives. If you outlaw knives, eventually it follows that you should outlaw sticks and stones. As long as someone is able to pick up a rock and hit someone else with it, the underlying problem remains.

Now, of course I'm not suggesting that a rock is as dangerous as a gun. I'm simply advocating a different approach to the whole issue - one that seeks to address why X wants to attack Y with any weapon, rather than simply removing that weapon from X and pretending X won't find another way of being dangerous.

LW

Originally posted by wclv13
I understand the physical part of carrying a gun. However, I was thinking about the mindset of the person carrying the concealed wep. Is it for harm or good?

A gun is a tool. A car can be used to careen into a mob of people too, but no one sits around wondering "wow now that I have a car I could mow down the innocent! what a temptation!"

I have carried for 12 years or so, I don't even think about it (well unless going into a bar or a government building). Granted it those that wear a holster probably think of it more often because they have to put it on/off everyday, whereas in a handbag it just goes with me.

At first maybe it feels "different" but after a while it is just another tool, like a flashlight in the trunk or a pocket knife in your pocket, if you need it you know it is there, but the rest of the time you don't think about it.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by Sonya610]

A car can be used to transport you, or as you said to run down people.

A gun can be used to shoot people, and too... And too... And... Ah, what else?

Ok, we get it now.

You like guns.

That's alright. Shoot em down, bang bang.

Isn't there another way to deal with this cr*p that happens daily?

I recall about 15 years ago, some maniac on the street. He was walking in one direction, I the other (towards him)

He was ranting and raving and holding a very large screwdriver in a menacing way. He also had patches of hair/flesh torn from his head. It appeared that he did it himself with the screwdriver.

Yes, if I had a gun I would have shot him, he freaked me out! Instead, I talked to him and got myself out of harms way (in other words, agreed that yes, the world is messed up, yadda yadda and some one is out to get him)

It gave me time to walk a block to a payphone and call 911 to have him picked up.

Yeah, I coulda KILLED him, but tried to help him get help. My bad.

Originally posted by NeuroStability
A car can be used to transport you, or as you said to run down people.

A gun can be used to shoot people, and too... And too... And... Ah, what else?

That's just not the point. A gun can act as a deterrent without ever actually being fired. Is a gun more intrinsically dangerous than a car? Yes. Is that in and of itself a reason for the overnight removal of all guns from an entire country? No.

I have posted on similar threads in the past in which I expressed with some force the idea that guns did not make a society safer. I would stick to that position. However, the anti gun lobby tend to portray gun ownership as inherently irrational and foolish, when of course it isn't that simple. In the UK we look on US gun laws with some bemusement, I think - almost as a sort of third world concept.

What you have to understand before you attack gun ownership in the US, I believe, is the hugely cultural impact of guns on people. The right to bear arms did not come out of nowhere, it was inspired by events in just the same way as the concept in England that one's home is one's castle, or in other cultures that certain foodstuffs are sacrosanct or certain landmarks are to be treated with reverence. I came to understand from reading the often passionate posts that railed against my point of view that there was a much larger picture to the debate than the slightly simplistic "Guns are evil/Guns are my fundamental human right" interpretation frequently presented by the media.

So while I still don't think guns make life safer, I no longer think of gun eradication as the end of the story - it has to be part of a sensitive, careful, socially aware policy that does not seek to confiscate, rather to render them obsolete.

LW

Originally posted by wclv13
Isn't there another way to deal with this cr*p that happens daily?

Well I suppose we could move to a country that has virtually no violent crime (the Netherlands perhaps? Switzerland? Oh wait, too late). Maybe Singapore?

But other than that, fix the thug problem and then you can ask people to re-evaluate their need for self-protection. Don't blame the guns, blame the thug rapists/thieves/killers that are running loose and making people feel the need to protect themselves.

Originally posted by Sonya610
A gun is a tool. A car can be used to careen into a mob of people too, but no one sits around wondering "wow now that I have a car I could mow down the innocent! what a temptation!"

Sorry, that dog just won't hunt. A car is made for transportation...a gun is made to kill people. Like I said, I'm not going to tell you that you oughtn't to carry...but please, be straight up about it.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuckSorry, that dog just won't hunt. A car is made for transportation...a gun is made to kill people. Like I said, I'm not going to tell you that you oughtn't to carry...but please, be straight up about it.

Originally posted by wclv13 Is it for harm or good?

Reminds me of the saying from that Superhero show "what will you do with your powers?"

My comments were in direct response to wclv asking how one could deal "with such powers". I am pointing out that a car has the power to be lethal, but most people don't drive around thinking "Wow I could kill people with this car if I wanted too! I have the power!"

I ain't no cowboy. I realize criminals always have the upper hand because they INSTIGATE the situation, so timing and surprise is on their side. But at can provide a fighting chance which is far better than just being a lamb to the slaughter.