Recent Moon Hoax Ideas

Originally posted by jra
Plus Geologists are still discovering new things with the Lunar samples. Those would have to be some pretty amazing fakes, if that were the case.

You mean discovering things such as the moons gravity is vastly different than 1/6 the earths because the calculations used to derive that number would lacking from the very start? Do you mean those kinds of new discoveries scientists are always making?

reply to post by AnjeluvDeath


So you have technical papers on the Starship Enterprise WOW!
the only thing is those technical papers are B***SH*T you could not use them to build a working enterprise could you, just because you choose to live in a FANTASY world doesn't mean we have to.
With regards to you PHOTO collection can you actually prove any of them are real bigfoot ,ufo's (with little green men) etc I DOUBT IT!
Some people on here look for PROOF, evidence that can be scrutinized and confirmed as real, not like some on here who make comments such as" Yes its a ufo I KNOW", or "Yes I AM IN TUNE WITH THEM" , or other such IDIOTIC comments made by certain individuals on here.
Please back up your comments with some real yes REAL information that can be checked I wonder what you will say once images come back from the LRO mission.
Some people must have really sad lives to attack things like the moon missions based of B***SH*T the has be proved wrong on many occasions such as NO STARS,THE FOOT PRINTS,FLAG WAVING ETC ETC.

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by AnjeluvDeath

 

So you have technical papers on the Starship Enterprise WOW!
the only thing is those technical papers are B***SH*T you could not use them to build a working enterprise could you, just because you choose to live in a FANTASY world doesn't mean we have to.
With regards to you PHOTO collection can you actually prove any of them are real bigfoot ,ufo's (with little green men) etc I DOUBT IT!
Some people on here look for PROOF, evidence that can be scrutinized and confirmed as real, not like some on here who make comments such as"

No kidding? What is it that I originally asked for? Proof we went to the moon. None has been supplied. Sorry if you do not like how the game works but if you assert something as improbable as the idea that we went to the moon, then you are the one who needs to prove it and none of you have. You go build working models from the NASA scematics you have and tell me how it works, ok!

Originally posted by AnjeluvDeath
You mean discovering things such as the moons gravity is vastly different than 1/6 the earths because the calculations used to derive that number would lacking from the very start? Do you mean those kinds of new discoveries scientists are always making?

Nope, nothing like that at all.

We've learned more about the origins of the Moon and even things about the Sun, since the Regolith contains a radiation history going back about 4 billion years.

What is it that I originally asked for? Proof we went to the moon. None has been supplied. Sorry if you do not like how the game works but if you assert something as improbable as the idea that we went to the moon, then you are the one who needs to prove it and none of you have.

There is plenty of evidence out there. Just because you choose not to believe it, doesn't mean it's fake.

You (any anyone else claiming we didn't go) needs to supply the evidence that we didn't go, since it is you that is making that claim. The burden of proof is on you.

Originally posted by AnjeluvDeath


You mean discovering things such as the moons gravity is vastly different than 1/6 the earths because the calculations used to derive that number would lacking from the very start? Do you mean those kinds of new discoveries scientists are always making?

Please elaborate on this. What's is the value for the Moon's gravity if not 1/6 Earth's? How is it vastly different?

[edit on 3/29/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by AnjeluvDeath
No kidding? What is it that I originally asked for? Proof we went to the moon. None has been supplied. Sorry if you do not like how the game works but if you assert something as improbable as the idea that we went to the moon, then you are the one who needs to prove it and none of you have.

Actually the retroreflectors, photographic record, ample rock samples, and post-mission confirmation by other countries probes do a darn good job of proving just that. Amateur observations of the missions in progress also prove we really did go:
www.astr.ua.edu...

You go build working models from the NASA scematics you have and tell me how it works, ok!

Yeah, because I have a spare parts for Saturn V in my backyard just begging to get some use . Just another attempt to establish an unfalsifiable belief in a conspiracy. Incidently though, even amateur rocket makers have been able to create rocket-powered landers:
media.armadilloaerospace.com...

[edit on 30-3-2009 by ngchunter]

reply to post by ngchunter


Yep, that sure is what they have been telling you. I am glad you believe it. Have you personally seen any of this? You cannot recreate the parts? Come on, i was told it was really easy. Why can't you? Why can't NASA? You guys are all so cute with your little pledges to believe anything you are handed. I applaud you for that.

Originally posted by AnjeluvDeath
Yep, that sure is what they have been telling you. I am glad you believe it. Have you personally seen any of this?

I've noticed that you keep asking in all your posts if we have had any personal or first hand experience. Do you require first hand experience with everything in life or only when it comes to the Apollo missions? If I were to use your logic, then I shouldn't believe that Africa exists, because I've never been there. I've only seen photos and read about other peoples experience.

You cannot recreate the parts? Come on, i was told it was really easy. Why can't you? Why can't NASA?

Where on Earth did you get the ridiculous idea that recreating the parts was easy? By "parts" I assume you mean the Saturn V and the LM, etc.

Originally posted by AnjeluvDeath
reply to post by ngchunter

 

Yep, that sure is what they have been telling you. I am glad you believe it. Have you personally seen any of this?

Personally seen any of what? What other amateur astronomers saw? No, but I see similar things with today's spacecraft in my scope. Armadillo aerospace? No, but many others have witnessed their feats in person. It's up to you to prove that none of these people saw any of these things. I've already provided the evidence that they have.

You cannot recreate the parts? Come on, i was told it was really easy. Why can't you? Why can't NASA?

Put your money where your mouth is and do it yourself. Here are the instructions:
klabs.org...

[edit on 31-3-2009 by ngchunter]

Originally posted by ngchunter

Personally seen any of what? What other amateur astronomers saw? No, but I see similar things with today's spacecraft in my scope. Armadillo aerospace? No, but many others have witnessed their feats in person.

Aside from the "astronauts" in collusin, who was possible a first hand withness to ANY of tthis? PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE ex[lain that whole concenpt to me.

As far as amature photos go, seen one lately? They look no more like a pacecraft than the dust that attacks me camera when I break out the tree each yea.

Does it really bother you so much that we "faked" it first? Do some history researc hand ckinh gor.

Originally posted by AnjeluvDeath
Aside from the "astronauts" in collusin, who was possible a first hand withness to ANY of tthis? PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE ex[lain that whole concenpt to me.

My parents saw every launch first hand, and amateur astronomers followed it from the earth and back from the moon.

As far as amature photos go, seen one lately? They look no more like a pacecraft than the dust that attacks me camera when I break out the tree each yea.

I take amateur photos all the time, including some of spacecraft. It's sad that the best rebuttle you can mount is nothing more than an insult. Unfortunately for you, arguments from ignorance are logical fallacies. Your insults about the aesthetics of astrophotography aside, there is no way to account for these spacecraft images without apollo.

Does it really bother you so much that we "faked" it first? Do some history researc hand ckinh gor.

I know we didn't fake it, you can close your eyes and ignore the evidence all you want, but it won't change the truth.
www.eclipsetours.com...
There is no accounting for the presence of apollo 12 and its SLA panels in this picture without Apollo 12.

I don't understand this: is my common sense different from most people?
Now I really don't know whether man landed on moon or not, as well a I really can't say whether the pyramids were made by the egyptians or not.
However, I can't understand how not taking a photo with his partner and Earth at the same time is a clear indicator of hoax.
My common sense tells me that, in any event, if they walked into a studio and did the shots, why on Earth (pun not intended) wouldn't they get an "Earth with astronaut photo"? It's REALLY EASY to do! And everybody would be happy! Wouldn't you?

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
"The first mission canceled was Apollo 20, because the budget had been cut "
Did you mean transferred or switched to orbital missions?
NASA'S budget has been huge since it's inception.

history.nasa.gov...
upload.wikimedia.org...
NASA's budget peaked during apollo and it's never been the same since; hand-waving generalizations about the budget do not cut it. Apollo 20 was cancelled, period. The would-be-final apollo missions were gutted and their parts put to use on Skylab.

Originally posted by seb2882
However, I can't understand how not taking a photo with his partner and Earth at the same time is a clear indicator of hoax.

Actually they did just that on Apollo 17, so the claim isn't even correct:
history.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by seb2882
However, I can't understand how not taking a photo with his partner and Earth at the same time is a clear indicator of hoax.

Actually they did just that on Apollo 17, so the claim isn't even correct:
history.nasa.gov...

You better watch hunter NO STARS it must be fake

I don't doubt that the moon landings were real and men walked on the moon. What I could believe is that given the money involved and the political sensitivity (with the cold war) that they couldn't take the risk of only coming back with a few rocks - They needed the television and photographs to provide the 'full story' and when doing something so unheard of in man's endeavors as walking on another planet, they couldn't take the risk of not getting the decent coverage.

in short: mood landings real, photographs and TV possibly faked.

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
"The first mission canceled was Apollo 20, because the budget had been cut "
Did you mean transferred or switched to orbital missions?
NASA'S budget has been huge since it's inception.

I would like to get this out where you can read it and not pass it by as a link. Mind you I can find a ton of this stuff.

Snips from an article in Space Daily 2003

We had of course all seen the 1968 Kubrick/Clarke movie 2001: A Space Odyssey, and the facilities depicted there seemed entirely reasonable. In our lifetimes, we expected to see hotels in orbit, translunar shuttles operated by commercial airlines, and settlements on the Moon. Only the alien monolith was questionable.

None of this has happened.

Despite cutbacks, NASA has spent a total of $450 billion since Apollo 11 (adjusted for inflation to 2003 dollars). That very large sum was more than enough to fund the developments that Wernher von Braun predicted for the end of the 20th Century, but we have not even started on any of them.

If it had been spent wisely, as seed money to stimulate commercial development, we could have established a growing, self-sustaining extraterrestrial enterprise, offering opportunities for thousands of people to live and work off Earth - but the sad truth is that we have less capability in human spaceflight now than in 1970.

In 1969, we landed on the Moon, but now we cannot leave low Earth orbit (LEO). NASA claimed that the shuttle would be fifteen times cheaper to fly (per pound of payload) than the Saturn vehicles used in Apollo, but it is actually three times more expensive.

The average cost of each flight is a staggering $760 million. After a mission, the time required to prepare a shuttle for the next flight was supposed to be less than two weeks, but in practice tens of thousands of technicians spend three to six months rebuilding each "reusable" shuttle after every flight. Worst of all, the shuttle is a needlessly complex, fragile and dangerous vehicle, which has killed fourteen astronauts so far.

In 1973, we had a space station called Skylab, with berths for three astronauts. NASA let it reenter and break up over Western Australia. A second Skylab was built, which could have become the Earth terminal of a lunar transportation system.

It is now a tourist attraction at the Air and Space Museum in Washington, and the Saturn V to launch it is nothing more than a monstrous lawn ornament, moldering on its side at Johnson Space Center (JSC).



They are surprised and disappointed that the public are unimpressed by the shuttle and ISS, despite their technical virtuosity. The Giant Leap delusion persists today, in the form of proposals for a flags-and-footprints mission to Mars.



In reality, of course, Apollo existed because Jack Kennedy and Nikita Khruschev chose to make space a principal arena for competition between the superpowers. The purposes of the program were to overcome the perceived Soviet lead in space, and to foreclose the possibility that the USSR would reach the Moon first and claim it as Soviet territory. No Congress was willing to spend more than the minimum needed to achieve those objectives.

The Outer Space Treaty of 1967 relieved concerns about Soviet hegemony by banning weapons and territorial claims on the Moon. This allowed Congress to respond to Lyndon Johnson's simultaneous expansion of social programs and the war in VietNam by slashing funding for NASA. As shown in Figure 1, the budget peaked in 1966, and then fell precipitously.

Despite these obvious trends, NASA developed grandiose visions of the post-Apollo program, which culminated in the Space Task Group Report of 1969. (3)

The STG proposed three options. The most ambitious called for


a reusable Earth-to-orbit shuttle and a small space station by 1975;
a reusable orbit-to-orbit tug and a lunar orbit station in 1976;
a nuclear-powered tug and a lunar surface base in 1978;
a 50-man space base in Earth orbit in 1980;
a manned Mars mission in 1981;
and expansion of the Earth orbit space base to 100 people by 1985.
The other options retained all these objectives, but reduced the cash flow by delaying some of them for up to five years.

Figure 1 also shows the funding profiles required by the STG proposals (in 2003 dollars). Richard Nixon responded immediately, making it perfectly clear that the whole STG Report was sheer fantasy, and that NASA should expect less money, not more. "

reply to post by AnjeluvDeath


I am glad you have been entertaining these guys. I thoght the thread was dead. When thee cats away the mice will play.
I think it's time to make some predictions and BETS.
All you guys are ACES


[edit on 7-4-2009 by Donny 4 million]

reply to post by seb2882


seb this is common sense!

This is part 9
There is way more.
Should be a must read for all that utter the word MOON or type it.
Why? Because they kidnapped and enslaved this magnificent man, held a gun to his head until his untimely death.
Most at the hands of a cross dressing Government blackmailer.
The entire Space program is tainted to the teeth with this behavior.
What say all?


Huntsville, AL
The FBI Files of Werhner Von Braun--Part 9
By Tom Carney
Reprinted with permission of Old Huntsville Magazine

One of the most esteemed members of the rocket team later explained von Braun’s actions. “Germany, in many ways, was like the United States. You could support your country without liking the president. The difference was that as a US citizen you are entirely free to express your opinions. In Nazi Germany, you lost at least your freedom, and possibly your life if you did so.”

Another scientist explained it differently. “Don’t kid yourself, we were at war. Our cities were being bombed daily. When the V-2s hit London there was an opening of Champagne bottles.”

For von Braun, however, there was no explaining. The government, of which he was now a citizen, had instigated a cover-up years earlier and to have said anything would have exposed the government’s actions, as well as jeopardizing the future of the space program.

Despite being under constant surveillance and enduring relentless attacks on his character, von Braun had nothing but praise for his adopted country. When one person wrote him, suggesting that severe measures be taken with people who opposed national interests, he wrote back, “Years of direct exposure to the Hitler regime, and its excesses, taught me a few unforgettable lessons and made me solidly opposed to any form of government which would deprive man of human dignity.”

Army Intelligence

Werhner von Braun

Subject had dinner and two drinks at Murray’s Restaurant on west 47th street at 7:15 until 8:20. Subject was accompanied by two males, one known and one unknown. Subject returned to hotel approximately 9:00 and did not leave room for the rest of the night. More information on unknown not available at this time.

In private, however, von Braun was willing to talk. When an acquaintance wrote him about the accusations, von Braun replied, “... yes, I was a member of the Nazi party and the SS. I would appreciate it if you would treat this as confidential ... for the sake of NASA.”

A high official at NASA offered his view. “We lied when we brought von Braun over here, and then told him to keep his mouth shut. Can you imagine him holding a press conference to explain why he joined the Nazi Party? That would have been the end of him and the space program. The poor S.O.B., didn‘t have a chance! He just had to stand there and take it. People say von Braun used us, but the truth is ... we used him.“

Urgent, FBI

Domestic Intelligence

Source advised that a group of concentration camp survivors picketed Werhner von Braun, NASA official who attended a banquet. ... Twenty-five pickets paraded from 5 to 7 PM carrying signs referring to von Braun’s Nazi background.

In 1968 an enterprising reporter uncovered documents from von Braun’s 1947 background investigation. After comparing the files to the official records from Germany he realized they had been altered, and assumed von Braun had done so. The following story was entitled, “Nazi Lies!”

“That was hardest for von Braun,” recalled one scientist, “to be called a liar. The only time I ever mentioned it to him, he told me to be patient and everything would work out.”

Von Braun had suffered in silence, for decades, for the dream of sending a man to the moon. In 1968 the huge Saturn V rocket was at Cape Canaveral waiting to be launched. All systems were go and it would have been virtually impossible to kill the program at that point. Von Braun, realizing this, seized the opportunity to do something he had waited years for. The German government had quietly been investigating rumors and collecting documents concerning his war time past. In February of 1969 he appeared at the German Embassy in New Orleans to answer the accusations. The Embassy was supplied with the relevant files from the FBI, the CIA, the Army, and the German Archives. After days of intensive probing and questioning, Werhner von Braun was completely exonerated.

It barely made the news.

Several months later in July of 1969, Werhner von Braun saw his lifelong goal of putting a man on the moon come true. To honor the occasion, President Richard Nixon invited von Braun and his wife to a dinner at the White House.

Secret

John Ehrlichman,

Counsel to the President

Reference is made ... in connection with the White House Affair. ... Dr. Werhner von Braun ... was subject of investigations conducted by the FBI in 1948 and 1961 ... information was developed that he received an honorary SS Commission as a Lieutenant and had been a member of the Nazi Party. ...

He had worked for the United States for twenty-eight years, placed a man on the moon and was the Director of Marshall Space Flight Center with a budget of 1.5 billion dollars and 8,000 employees, but to the FBI he was still a Nazi.

In 1977 President Ford awarded von Braun the National Medal of Science. He was in the hospital, his body wracked with cancer, and unable to attend the White House ceremony. Later a friend visited the hospital and gave him the medal.

As von Braun looked at the medal he probably remembered when he was a small child dreaming of building a spaceship someday that would carry men into outer space. He probably thought of the country he had grown up in and how it had been devastated by war. And he probably thought of his adopted country, a former enemy, which had given him the medal.

They said a tear rolled down his cheek as he laid in the hospital bed with the medal clutched tightly in his hand.

Werhner von Braun supported his native country in a time of war, and for that he bore the stigma of Nazism for the rest of his life. When all the accusations are finally put to rest, perhaps historians will look at the man and discover who he really was ... a loyal German citizen, who became a great American hero.
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reply to post by wmd_2008

Actually there are no pictures of a MAN on the moon.
There are photos of spacesuits. Thats all!
And they were not taken on the moon in my opinion.