The Cause of Schizophrenia

Originally posted by Elemensa
As someone with a very close relative with this illness i just wanted to comment on how incredibly rude it is of you to resort such an awfull illness down to something like telepathy.

Im sorry to be so blunt but it anoys me when you make a fairytale out of something so real.

I completely agree with you. I also have someone in my close family who suffers with the illness disgusts me someone who obviously doesn't know much about it can say such a thing. :/

reply to post by Byrd


Whos to say that their hearing voices is false or rather that the people using telepathy like to abuse those individuals and would rather remain a secret. How can you determine that a person who says they are hearing voices is indeed hallucinating. They told me I was hallucinating, voices in my head even said I was hallucinating, until me and my sister had a telepathic conversation I wasn't convinced that I was telepathic.

Schizophrenics are in-tune to things that the rest of us are ignorant of. I agree with the OP to that extent.

I wrote an essay as part of a pub in '95 that included something similar to the OP's comment, except I was thinking the milder, near-borderline issues, not full blown S. (here)

If you read the McKenna brothers book 'The Invisible Landscape', they talk about shamanism, and the feel by those studying this in native cultures that shamans are basically people living in two worlds; if they lived in the one, they'd be normal, if they lived in the other, they'd be considered insane, but they are able to integrate both well enough to 'pass' in either world, so to speak.

Unfortunately I suspect that in most full blown conditions, there are multiple issues going on at once, which really complicates having any easy answer.

A good buddy I used to have was classified as borderline schizophrenic. He and I used to talk about it off and on and I read some about it during that time. He had a number of issues sort of "interwoven" with the "end-result conglomerate of problems" that got him the diagnosis. He had an abused childhood which had caused some lifetime emotional problems. He was definitely psychic which just like anyone else with that going on, created some confusion and a lot of 'noise' (both literal and figurative) in his head which didn't help. He had, like many people, a very good 'suspension of disbelief' and very good visualization and creative abilities.

Where he ran into problems was keeping the tracks straight. For example, I could have pretty much the same day he had including everything from intuitive info we worked together on to watching a movie to having some conversations, but as the hours passed, it would pretty much start blending for him. What someone said, what he thought of, what we saw in the movie, a book series he was into, and possible intuitive info, pretty much started merging in his head. Then what he was talking about was really screwed up to everybody else around us, but I knew exactly where nearly all the pieces came from; it was the fact that he no longer had them separated into source-streams in his head that was the problem.

As an aside, at one point some years ago I had a massive sudden 'asthma' problem that eventually hospitalized me. My oxygen was so low it was ridiculous. It had an interesting side effect: information in my head totally lost its time-anchor. For example I'd remember a conversation with a friend, and the facts from it, but I had absolutely no idea in linear time when it happened. It was floating unattached with everything else. It could have been the day before or ten years before. (It turned out I was intolerant to gluten. When I quit eating gluten, my 'severe asthma', allergies, and other symptoms vanished within 2 weeks). I found that interesting (if terrifying) and it made me think that this issue my friend from years prior had shown, the sort of blending (which would get vastly better or worse in cycles, that might have related to hormones, food, sunspots, who knows?) was definitely a physical brain issue.

Anyway back to my friend. When he would say something, that was almost like a separate source of info to his brain, and that would go into his head as something believable too, even if he made it up on the spot (which he was pathologically wont to do, as a sort of creativity out of control).

The problem with the brain not automatically keeping the source-streams of data separate is that (a) it didn't necessarily keep them linear, either, and (b) this issue removed the automatic stamp of truth/fiction/speculation from all of it.

I might add that although there are textbook symptoms of the disorder, every person is a unique individual of course, so his issues probably aren't exactly like anybody else's.

One of the recognizeable symptoms of schizophrenia in people, even in mild cases, is when someone says something that you feel like "got run through a blender". Like facts and speculation and timelines are so screwed up that it's like some jumble you can't even debate because it'd take you three weeks just to straighten out all the facts on the situation.

I believe schizophrenia is a spectrum disorder -- by which I mean it has a huge range of degree of manifestation, even though our culture mostly only recognizes it around a certain point of severity and then hangs a label on it. I think a lot of people have symptoms of it that are just mild or intermittant enough to not buy them a label and prescription for it.

I've personally noticed that a lot of women show undiagnosed signs of this, that humorously enough seem to be attributed to 'being an irrational or untruthful female' (as if this was predictable rather than unusual), rather than to a genuine disorder; maybe for cultural reasons, it sometimes seems more apparent and obvious in men. I suppose that is a separate conversation though lol.

Anyway. I think everybody is prone to intuitive information but most of us are taught from birth to physiologically limit our perception and definition of 'reality' to that exampled by family around us. I think due to some of the brain issues, some people are more vulnerable to a lot of bleedthrough of psi-based information. Unfortunately that really only adds to the problems.

Best,
PJ

reply to post by RedCairo


You were talking about having trouble understanding what your friend was saying. That seems similar to a simtom called 'word salad' I think a major cause of word salad is that the individual assumes that you know what he is talking about when he touches on a subject so he can fly around to different things that he thinks about assuming you can follow him that quickly, this also ties into thinking that a person can know everything about you.

When RedCairo brought up the possibility of a connection between diet and schizophrenia, it reminded me of a personal memoir written by a man, David Briscoe, who was diagnosed with schizophrenia as a teenager. His family decided to try the macrobiotic diet to see if he would improve at all. Within a timeframe detailed in the book -- it was at least some months -- his mental health issues were totally resolved, and he was never troubled with symptoms of schizophrenia again. "A Personal Peace" is the name of the book, and used copies are available on Amazon:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236806142&sr=1-2

David is currently working on an updated version of this book. More information on the suitability of macrobiotic diets in psychiatric application is available in another book (from 1988) available as used copies:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236810428&sr=1-2

For nearly twenty years, I have been privileged to be the partner of a woman who has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, so much so that as well as her partner, I am her registered carer. Having been with her for this long, I have seen pretty much all sides of this affliction.
The official line from the medical world, of course, is a chemical imbalance of serotonin in the brain, so she has to take large numbers of strong anti-psychotic drugs just to stay on an even keel, even though these medications often come with horrible side-effects, for which she usually has to take even more tablets to counteract them.
Dawn tells me that she has problems concentrating most of the time, as she feels that there are at least four voices screaming obscenities at her during all of her waking hours, telling her to harm herself and others, and comparing her to the Devil. Usually, the only time she gets any respite is when she is asleep.
Schizophrenia is also hereditary, her mother suffered from it as well, but in a much milder form, and she had ECT therapy in the past.
Dawn also had a very traumatic childhood, involving bereavement, abuse, and constantly being on the move and never settling down, as the people caring for her were in the Armed Forces, and were posted very frequently between countries.
All in all, I seriously doubt that telepathy has much to do with the illness, as telepaths often conciously aim to use the ability, whereas schizophrenics only wish for the voices to go away.
Many nights I have had to try to persuade her not to hit walls or cut up, and she has even stood over me while I was in bed with a kitchen knife. Believe me, this is a serious issue, and not one to be taken lightly, so to associate it to telepathy seems to be trying to trivialise a chronic condition. I often wish that I could find some concrete method of helping her to beat the problem, other than just being here for her, but I think that it will be some time before science reveals a feasible treatment. My suspicions are that there is already a cure somewhere, but as with many of these things, the best stuff is reserved for the top few.

reply to post by telepathicjon


I have been diagnosed with psychosis,,,schizo-effective disorder and now its bipolar with psychotic symptoms.

Ive known all along I havent got a mental illness and I use telepathy myself,,,first knew I could do that age 18.

Some that have this illness,,truly believe they are mentally ill,and dont see it as some spiritual gift that just gets mixed up and then shrinks come along and pill us up to try and make us better,,,they make us worse!

I don't think OP was rude. He is stating his opinion based on his experience. You are rude attacking him in this way.

OP simply has no great understanding of this condition.
I was married to a schizo for 5 years.
He did some really strange reasoning and would when drunk tell strange tales, but never was he telepathic. It was later after I left him that he had delusions that his house was bugged with listening devices but he never heard voices.

One sure sign of this condition is an acrid body odor. There is no way it can be washed off - that is the way they are. Freud used to sniff his patients as part of his diagnosis.

I can also tell you that the condition is heritable.

There are some suggestions here for treatment that some of you may find helpful.

suggestions here

[edit on 13-3-2009 by OhZone]

You might look at the Salt Water cure as a possible help for this kind of problem. www.watercure2.org...

reply to post by royspeed


Schiphronics don't know that they are telepathic, but it helps to understand that even though it is truly people that are talking to us and not auditory hallucinations the voices are not always the people that they make themselves out to be.

Originally posted by Somebodyelse7

Originally posted by Elemensa
As someone with a very close relative with this illness i just wanted to comment on how incredibly rude it is of you to resort such an awfull illness down to something like telepathy.

Im sorry to be so blunt but it anoys me when you make a fairytale out of something so real.

I completely agree with you. I also have someone in my close family who suffers with the illness disgusts me someone who obviously doesn't know much about it can say such a thing. :/

You are getting angry at a person who may be in the middle of an episode... duh? Use sympathy or ignore the thread. Don't get angry.

Maybe it is real maybe it is false. Maybe he is a loony toon maybe he's not. Whatever he is, as long as the voices he is hearing is not telling him to break any laws and he won't take meds, then he is who he is. Use sympathy and the ignore button. That is basically all we can do unless you have some medical references or contacts for him to utilize for discussion purposes. Post them and find something legitimate to complain about instead of fostering his personal beliefs - whether you or even he believes them to be legitimate or loony.

Originally posted by OhZone
One sure sign of this condition is an acrid body odor. There is no way it can be washed off - that is the way they are.

Just when I thought the thread couldn't get any more offensive.

As far as I know only those schizophrenics with well-above-average intelligence KNOW (or better said...they in time realize) they are ill, not telepathic or on a mission from god etc...
Often it also helps if the person is not religious.

Sorry if I ofended someone, it was not my intention, this are just my conclusions i've got from observing people suffering from this serious disease...

Studies show that marijuana triggers schizophrenia, which from what I've read in some of the comments here about fiction, reality merging with a loss of sense of time, would explain what that would be so.

Seems to me that pot could trigger it, and if the person doesn't snap out of it fast enough that the brain patterns will become ingrained.

I also think it is a spiritual thing as well. In fact I know a young man brought up from birth as a Mormon, taught that he was a god in the making, that when he died he would have his own planet to populate with myriads of beings just like the current Mormon god populating this planet. His mother constantly played space programs and movies, Everquest, and immersed in the occult. When this young man smoked pot, it sent him over the edge. Now he is drugged to keep him from doing dangerous things to himself or others, drugs that are according to Dr. Peter Breggin, toxins to actually poison the brain, to numb it, to make it not work, in order to keep the thinking at a low ebb.

In the Bible Nebuchadnezzer became a schizo for a period of years, eating grass, letting his nails grow long, until one day he acknowledged the One High God, gave up his paganism, and immediately regained his senses.

The Bible says pride goes before a fall and a haughty spirit before destruction. Pride would make one think the one was the center of the universe, become paranoid and think they could read others' thoughts and that others were also reading theirs.

Pride I believe is a trigger to schizophrenia, and delusions of grandeur go hand in hand with schizophrenia. A religion which teaches people they are gods is a religion with a ready-made delusions of grandeur built in.

People will probably flip out that I would blame this condition on a spiritual flaw rather than diet or a chemical imbalance. But the chemicals in our brains are a direct result of our thinking, and if we have wrong thinking, wrong beliefs to start with, the chemicals will accomodate themselves to the thinking we have adopted.

The young man I speak of was a very handsome, charming person, very trusting and admiring of his mother, and soaked up all her teachings to him of his great future as a god of another planet, that he was an equal with who the Mormons call the "Heavenly father."

I believe that is a small skew regarding the beliefs in question; she may not have presented it to you very well.

The concepts are something applied to people in the third level of heaven after they die, to be specific -- not that everyone is 'equal to god' right now. Which is to say that it's equally stretching-for-believable as the stories from every other religion regarding what happens after you die.

The tenets of mormonism are no more likely to make a person schizo than any other religion. (Given a focus on family life and healthy eating, probably less.)

Many years ago, I had a so-called 'kundalini experience' and a major crown chakra issue from it, that caused some degree of schizophrenic symptoms for a few years. It resolved. However it led me to believe that an overdose of energy in the top three chakras could explain the majority of the symptoms. Seeing things, hearing voices, multiple reality streams, and the overwhelming sense of spirit and one's place in it, all come with that. I even had a line in my journal that was an exact quote for a line from a schizo subject quoted in 'The Origin of Consciousness and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind' (Jaynes) that I read about a year later. Had I not found a Jane Roberts book ('The Nature of Personal Reality') for a logical framework to put my experiences into I probably would have ended up labeled and medicated.

So it's a brain problem but IMO indirectly. I don't think drugs work too well because the problem is not that the neurology is 'creating' these things but that the neurology is 'perceiving' these things (they have 'a degree of reality' of their own); so 'damping down the brain' is about the best we can do.

Best,
PJ

[edit on 19-3-2009 by RedCairo]

Originally posted by CaptainCaveMan

Originally posted by telepathicjon
Schizophrenia has to do with misunderstanding telepathy. Telepathy is realizing another person's thoughts. Thoughts can be about a feeling or a person (soul). By telepathy is not a person's actuall feelings or actuall soul. Thinking this is the cause of schizophrenia. We are hidden in our soul and or feelings, only when they become thoughts can they be known.

No that's really wrong to say this.
Schizophrenia is a physical abnormality of the brain.
Similar to brain damage.
Caused by either Genetics or trauma.
And causes a lifetime of suffering for all people involved in it.

That's wrong too. Its not proven to be a physical abnormality and the only brain damage that has been reported in scans has been due to the medications. Also; its often transient and only few are permanantly affected by it.

I am diagnosed as a schizophrenic and I have a hypothesis about telepathy and schizophrenia as well, only it is sort of opposite the one the OP presents.

I think everyone but schizophrenics or maybe just me, have telepathic abilities.

From my observation, it is against the rules for someone to spill the beans about telepathy because people like me are not supposed to know our thoughts can be heard by everyone else until we have "come of age" so to speak. It is for that reason that I think the OP is getting a lot of flak about his post.

Since "coming of age" I have experienced lots of coughing from colleagues when my mind isn't in the moment or when I focus my thoughts on people.

I heard voices at the onset of my condition. The voices were from people who I knew in real life telling me I needed to die, I was going to be killed and go to hell. I was able to hear them when they talked to me telepathically and they could hear my thoughts or responses but I never heard mundane thoughts like "yum those cheese fries are good" or "I need some coffee".

I have yet to hear any mundane types of thoughts and if one is telepathic those kinds of thoughts, assuming everyone has these thoughts, should be heard telepathically.
I do wonder if everyone hasn't just evolved past them and live in the moment like the Buddha.

Anyway, just thought I'd chime in.

P.S. Oops I didn't realize I was reviving a 3 year old thread.

Originally posted by danj3ris

Originally posted by telepathicjon
Schizophrenia has to do with misunderstanding telepathy. Telepathy is realizing another person's thoughts. Thoughts can be about a feeling or a person (soul). By telepathy is not a person's actuall feelings or actuall soul. Thinking this is the cause of schizophrenia. We are hidden in our soul and or feelings, only when they become thoughts can they be known.

I have a slightly different theory. Schizophrenia is a name of a condition that has been created by those in the medical profession to give a label to someone who exhibits such characteristics, or "symptoms". Of course the word "symptom" suggests that it is something "treatable" and that there is something "wrong" with a schizophrenic.

Science has said we only use a certain percentage of our brains. Through 5 sensory perceptions, our brain is able to interact with reality. My theory pertains to the fact that other species perceive reality differently. Bees can see colors we cannot. Dogs can hear sounds we cannot. A schizophrenic perceives more of reality then non-schizophrenics do, because they utilize a different portion or percentage of their brain to either heighten their 5 senses, or have a 6th sense.

In other words someone "suffering" from schizophrenia is actually perceiving more of the reality that is already there. Auditory hallucinations are not hallucinations at all, its just that no one else can hear them.

I can see how our theories are similar, but also how they are not.
edit: for misspelling.

[edit on 10-3-2009 by danj3ris]

Being someone who is schizophrenic and has had several psychotic episodes, I totally agree with this. If anything, schizophrenia is a psycho-spiritual crisis and science greatly under-estimates the importance of, and connection to the soul in relation to mental illness.

In the amazon people who have a psychotic experience are encouraged and lead through it, they in turn become shaman's. I have read also that if a person were to be guided through a psychotic experience they would come out the other side with positive results, instead of negative results from being force-fed mind altering drugs.

The one thing that disappointed me the most about schizophrenia was not the experiences (hell that was the best part) but being forced to take medication and having no alternative's provided. There are plenty of alternative treatments available but none of them are used or encouraged. Not only that but once the psychosis is over patients are persuaded to keep taking the debilitating substances long term leading to worsening of the condition and a shortened lifespan.

reply to post by telepathicjon


Telepathy? Where did you come up this insane idea? Have you ever done any research into our current diet? Or current pollutents that may cause this? I believe that dyes that are included in junk foods and even in natural foods such as meats/fish to make them look redder are a culprit. RED Number (?)

Were there any cases of schizophrenia back in the turn of the previous century. (1900)?