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Power and the Catholic Religion

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posted on Apr, 18 2004 @ 11:26 AM
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As a youth Constantine was sent to the palace of the infamous Roman Emperor Diocletian to learn the tricks of the trade as they say. At that time Christianity was growing by leaps and bounds throughout the Empire. The Christians were outstanding citizens but the Emperors saw them as a threat to the empire for one reason: they refused to acknowledge the divinity of the Emperors or call Caesar "lord."



Around AD 313, Christianity merged with the Roman Empire. Jesus is no longer the head of the church, the Pope is. Shortly after this merger, the Roman Catholic Church starts persecuting churches and Christians who refuse this merger.

The Petrine theory: refers to Peter being the first pope in the apostolic succession based on Matthew 16:18. In the fourth century, Constantine the Great tried to use Christianity to unify the Roman government. Constantine established himself as the head of the church around 313 A.D., which made this new "Christianity" the official religion of the Roman Empire.


Could it be that Constantine could care less about the Trinity doctrine, and his motivation was political? Was his involvement in this new and rapidly growing religion an attempt to control it? It would be difficult to control a movement that didnt have a living leader; you would need to convince every preacher of the faith to accept his authority. But if you established a hierarchy that controlled and unified the church you only need to convince or influence one man thereby controlling the entire structure.




May 22, 337 A.D. Constantine died at Nicomedia, still wearing the white robes of a Christian neophyte. His sarcophagus was then placed in the Church of the Holy Apostles, as he himself had directed; it was surrounded by the memorial steles of the Twelve Apostles, making him symbolically the thirteenth Apostle.

If Constantine used the Church to maintain power then todays Roman Catholic Church is based on one mans fight for power and not the teachings of the bible.


Resources:

www.reformation.org...

www.angelfire.com...

www.biblebelievers.com...

www.roman-emperors.org...



[Edited on 18-4-2004 by kinglizard]




posted on Apr, 18 2004 @ 02:29 PM
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Constantine's reason for championing Christianity was purely in order to gain total control of the Roman world.

Pagan thug makes Christian Emperor



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 04:26 PM
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No big news flash here. The Episcopal Church has been pretty much saying that since Charles II. More specifically, (According to Robert Meyers Book, the First Urban Christians) It was the Druids and the Isisian (Isis followers) who were making the jump to the Christian messages. Meyer also points out that it was Isis Scholars who first gave Christianity as a religion, real creditability by writing a very detailed criticism of it. More so, inside the Roman Empire during the first 3 centuries, Christians were pretty much Jews for Jesus in the sense that practicing it openly is forbidden in most cities of the Empire. One the first big internal debates among the original apostles was on the question of letting Gentiles into the Church. Constantine pretty much settled that dispute and did the matter of Christmas, Lent, Easter and some other pagan holidays. Additionally, Christian churches North and East of the Empire, as in Britain, Scotland and Ireland were growing at an alarming rate. These were the same people battling the Roman Legions on the frontiers, which Rome was loosing more and more territory. By Proclaiming Christianity and building a church in Rome and Claiming Peter to be the founder, made it easy for Constantine to re-assimilate those lost territories back into the empire.



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 04:38 PM
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Constantino was a shampion for cristianity because his mother was a cristian and she decided to take matters on hers hands to make cristianity the main religions at the time she had a lot of influence on him he did anything his mother wanted, he was after all a mamas boy but actually he did not converted to cristianity until his death bed he was a sun worshiper or the god sun of the ancient egiptians. If cristians has to thank anybody for cristianity it will be constantinos mother she is the one that went to jerusalem and fallowed the path of jesus and make sure to find the markers as well or to mark anything to make it real, remember after the time of jesus jerusalem was burn and rebuild and it amazes me that she was able to find all the land mark of jesus time and it was during constantinos reign that the bible was compailed.

[Edited on 21-4-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Apr, 29 2004 @ 08:22 AM
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Constantine probably did do it for power. He incorporated much of the pagan influences into the Church such as statues and saints. In this way he could blend the pagans to follow this new religion but keep similar beliefs. It was a smart idea and lead to the Church being what it is now.



posted on Apr, 29 2004 @ 11:33 AM
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I think constantine just realized that he needed to "adapt or die" With the christian faith growing every day, Constantine thought that they would soon become the majority of the roman population. Maybe he thought that they would plan a coup or start a revolution, whatever his motives, he realized that he needed to put a leash on this movement before it got out of control. Honestly, does anyone really think he just woke up one day and said to himself, "Gee my religion just isn't working out, maybe I should switch to Christianity"? Didn't think so. His motives were political.



posted on Apr, 29 2004 @ 11:50 AM
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Supposedly Constantine had a vision on his way to do battle with an army superior to his. He accepted this vision, utilized the sign of the cross and converted to Christianity then proceeded to win the war. However this seems like a coincidence or the best timing ever considering the religious movement at the time. If it was a bid for power then the Pope is a relic from the past that was used to maintain power. So the Roman Catholic faith should not be followed and the protestant faith should be embraced as the true Christian religion.



It was October, 312 AD Constantine and his troops marched toward Rome to do battle with his opponent, another would-be emperor, the tyrannical Maxentius.

As Constantine stopped to consider his battle plans, he realized he needed greater power than just military force. Maxentius was relying on magical enchantments. But how should Constantine pray? His father was a monotheist, believing there was only one God over all. Constantine saw that the pagan gods failed to protect their worshipers. So he sought his father's God in prayer, pleading for him to tell him who he was and to stretch forth his hand to help him. As he prayed (it was a little after noon), Constantine had an absorbing vision. He saw the sign of the cross emblazoned across the sky and the words In hoc signo vinces, "In this sign you will win."

Constantine accepted the vision. He adopted the sign. He had the cross inscribed on his soldiers' armor. He went into battle. Even though his forces were outnumbered, he won.



www.gospelcom.net...



posted on Apr, 29 2004 @ 12:42 PM
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How sad. And to think the church which soul teaching is (perfect state of grace on earth) could be utterlyfoolish and nonsense. Its impossible that God could of set up a church
withorganized ministers to giveout commuion, teach, andbaptise, while a pope wld be the one who governs the body while this body moved by the holy spirit interprets scripture so 1000s of interprettions would
not destorythe whole earth.


The sacrafice has been put off until the 1500s when protest-ant-ism was formed and after the freemided era, 1000s of different beliefs that were all christian formed, som chuches are cults, some receieve a sacrafice, some believe in faith alone, yet some 3000 all call themselves christians while all believing in somethng different. How can this be when jesus told the apostles to teach them all to observe all that I commanded you.





So what church is true? what church has carried on the eucharistic sacrafice prophecied to spread to every corner of earth? what faith of jesus has spread from his time until now with the sacrafice of perfection? Every saint of the catholic religion. eigion as in they believe in the teaching of being in the state of perection on earth which is the sole basis of our church, confession, communion, to remain in grace on earth. Every saint of the church
who worked mracles, formed organizations for the sick, are all on the road to damnation because they followsome man made religion, and have been judged God knows how many times by peple who don't have a clue what the teachings are and mean. miracles have been happening in this church for 2000 years of healings, visions, eucharistic miracles, ect.. and I have seen miracles myself to believe and conver to the faith and sacrafice, and we are all liars and false and sincerity doesnt exist when
the catholicchurch is mentioned. And im no saying this becuase im some sort of poster boy for the church. I believe in it for other reasons and never grw up in it, and truly beieve in it, not only from the miracles of the church, but from common sense while readng scripture and Jesus teaching on the kingdom.



But since im a part of something Consantine helped(build) up, (not) creat. the church is a teaching, not an organization. this is why we have had some (20) soe antipopes in curch history who claimed to be popes but wereshunned by the chrch for teaching falsehood as pope. And not a single one of you know Constantine, his life, his jorney, ect. You can read from books all day on him, but (none) of you knew his thoughts an all of his deeds, yu hae no clue who guided him.





Butthis will continue forever, and people will sit back in judgement until the earth explodes from Gods wrath.isnt that satans plan. Get people to pass down sentence, mere people, until the final day when they were distracted by nothing but judgement? Im not saingall of you, just some who have sealed my fate because I belong to something caled catholic, and have judged the entire catholic world in ther own sentencing.




God bless.



posted on Apr, 29 2004 @ 12:57 PM
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I see alot of


" could have been "


" He probably did it for this "



what is this? Your assuming, though you (might) have a stronger stance away from the internet, your assuming because you know judgement is not right.




Suppose I say.


Since protestants are protestant and created their own churches, they are (probably) not true and not christian.



I would sound like a total judgemental human being.





Or suppose you were constantine, and you knew you saw a vison, and followed this vision, and saw people 1700 years later judging you as if they were the christ who can judge.





None of us including me know Gods mind, I believe what hes shown me, but I don't know his judgements or mind, I just don't




peace.



posted on Apr, 29 2004 @ 01:37 PM
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I was raised in Catholic Parochial schools all my life. This fact doesnt make me a theologian or biblical scholar.

I started having issues with MY Catholic faith when I to call my priest at my schools church Father, my father is not this man its God. When I had to go to confession and confess my sins to the priest and accept the punishment that he felt was just. I felt like I should be telling God of my sins and ask for his forgiveness. I dont like the idea of a middle man between myself and God. I also dont believe that the Pope is any closer to God than myself nor do I think God considers the Popes words more important than mine.



posted on Apr, 29 2004 @ 02:39 PM
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Kinglizard, I share your feelings toward confessing to a priest. And the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I also have a problem with an "infallible" church that changes its mind about priests marrying, and denies its history of a woman pope and a black pope and didn't acknowledge women having a soul until the 1500s.
___________

Marge was right when she said Constantine was unbaptized until his death, which I find most curious.
"Constantine can rightfully claim the title of Great, for he turned the history of the world into a new course and made Christianity, which until then had suffered bloody persecution, the religion of the State. It is true that the deeper reasons for this change are to be found in the religious movement of the time, but these reasons were hardly imperative, as the Christians formed only a small portion of the population, being a fifth part in the West and the half of the population in a large section of the East. Constantine's decision depended less on general conditions than on a personal act; his personality, therefore, deserves careful consideration.

Long before this, belief in the old polytheism had been shaken; in more stolid natures, as Diocletian, it showed its strength only in the form of superstition, magic, and divination. The world was fully ripe for monotheism or its modified form, henotheism, but this monotheism offered itself in varied guises, under the forms of various Oriental religions: in the worship of the sun, in the veneration of Mithras, in Judaism, and in Christianity. Whoever wished to avoid making a violent break with the past and his surroundings sought out some Oriental form of worship which did not demand from him too severe a sacrifice; in such cases Christianity naturally came last. "

www.newadvent.org...



posted on Apr, 29 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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Constantine grew up learning about Christianity so when he was emperor he said that Christians will no longer be prosecuted and then made Chritianity a main religiong of the Roman Empire.



posted on Apr, 30 2004 @ 10:58 AM
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A lot of this speculation is based on Constantines vision on the battle field and his subsequent conversion.
But the fact is that this vision did not convert him to Christianity. He didn't actually convert until his actual deathbed and then he knew nothing about it. And let's not forget that even the ancient Church apologist Eusebius claims that the only reason Constantine had the vision was because he had called upon the Christian god to aid him in battle. Rather a self serving and selfish excuse to believe in a god isn't it? You would think that if Jesus himself appeared to Constantine, as later claimed before the battle, that it would have been enough to sway the emperor to follow Christianity - but no. Constantine merrily went on his way and carried on worshipping Mithras.

the-true-jw.oltenia.ro...

Constantine was a staunch suppporter of Mithraism. He was a Sun worshipper. The fact that his mother was a convert and went off on a hunt for the cross doesn't mean that he converted too. Like any son he pandered to her whims and the cross that he placed on his shields was a homage to her - not to Christianity.

Christianity wasn't a big hit until Constantine came along. He united the religion and the medievil Church carried his work on. Unity requires control to get it going in the first place and this is what the Catholic Church is all about. It tells you how to worship, when to worship and who to worship. Control, control, control.

All religions are based on controlling their followers. If they couldn't control you how could they make you follow their god? Face it - would you follow the god of the Bible or the god of the Koran if you weren't frightened of him or if he didn't offer you some reward?



posted on Apr, 30 2004 @ 11:15 AM
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The comments to follow are assuming the text of the bible is the true word of God.



Controlling the followers of a particular religion to advance your human agenda you would need a hierarchy. If you wanted to pervert a particular faith you would need to control the man at the top of the pyramid, thereby controlling the entire faith. If you had no controlling body then you have millions of followers simply following their biblical text and uninfluenced by some group of people attempting to promote their subversive agenda. God said he lives in all of us, not just a select few elected by man in the Catholic faith.


[Edited on 30-4-2004 by kinglizard]






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