Are you HOPING for a complete collapse and chaos to happen?

reply to post by opal13


I understand your analogy, but a controlled forest fire is not mayhem and chaos.

I understand people's desire to start over and the belief in the need for it. But I haven't had anyone articulate why there needs to be utter chaos, death and destruction.

reply to post by alien


Let me just make it clear -- I completely understand your position and why you would disagree. I also have family who I'd feel responsible for if the situation was to come, but luckily enough for me, they live here too and I would be able to ensure their safety as well as mine -- especially thanks to where we live (in the far north Queensland Atherton tablelands).

Other than that though, I think our belief in what defines our "ideal" world differs somewhat. My ideal world really doesn't have a chance in becoming a reality unless things are reset to some extent. The issue with religion, race, power, control -- unfortunate as it is, that's just the reality. The only change I can contribute to, is when we start rebuilding. I'm only turning 20 this year... I'm young enough that I can just about realistically see myself as apart of that process -- if the 'SHTF' soon enough.

I'm sorry.

I do actually hope for the collapse of the present financial system
of the Fed, and the select 20 'Primary Dealers' and the network of
favored financial institutions.

but it won't happen....

the monied cartel are getting continual injections of capital,
so they may continue to swap and trade amongst the members of the
financial cartel all those formerly 'toxic assets'...

whereas, the GDP producers i.e. the workers of America will struggle
with rationing, civil unrest, continual lack of credit, excessive unemployment, scarcity of food & medical attention...

those of us outside the financial cartel , (the Fed, the 20 Primary dealers & the carousel of favored institutions) will be the lower tier citizens struggling in 3rd world conditions... while those secure funancial giants
will still be getting bailouts even as they rake in Trillion$ in counter-party payments to holders of the credit-swaps and interest-swaps among the many other 'toxic assets'


It is rumored that the latest AIG bailout, to pay for the companies $61bn quarterly loss... was actually required so as to pay the counter-party derivatives positions held by Goldman Sacs...
so, GS... an earlier recipient of some $25bn to add to Liquidity...
is raking in money, from the hidden/off balance sheet derivatives
(which earlier constituted the ILLiquid Assets that necessitated the $25bn bailout)
So, the Fed and the cartel are deliberately keeping the financial mess in a state of twilight, so we may never fully see the problem...
a problem in which both GS and AIG held multi billions in counter-party 'toxic' derivatives...against each other < which We the taxpayers will be orchestrated to payoff


hey hey hey

Not really..

I'd like to get my pilot's license, keep my job, and finish school. What I DO want to see, is the following:


-Executions for financial treason (eg madoff and others)

-Severe punishment (minimum 60+ years) for banksters, / CEO's of sub-prime mortgage companies responsible. They know who they are.

-MORE CONVICTIONS!!!

-Members of congress held accountable for FORCING banks to make sub-prime loans; expulsion from Gov't, etc


The current "justice" system is so broken, there are no consequences for the economic TREASON that has taken place. There is so much hypocrisy in Washington right now it is sickening and nothing will ever be done. Too many people are involved an no one wants to rat out their "buddies".

What a disgrace.

But no - I want to see JUSTICE - not anarchy. There need to be real consequences; ones that people FEAR and not laugh at.

[edit on 10-3-2009 by ACEMANN]

I hate to admit this but I do hope that TSWHTF and that there will be a war which the likes of this planet have never seen before. It is just a rush thinking about it. But that is just a part of everyone that they choose not to embrace.

Great topic, OP. Yes, I guess I can say I'm "hoping" for a complete collapse, and with that will come a certain level of chaos. I also "hope" that minimal lives are lost and political change will occur quickly. The problem with hope is just that. Hope is equivalent to want, but (according to the Rolling Stones) you can't always get what you want. So allow me to ask you this:

What does it matter what people are "HOPING" for? Everybody hopes/wants certain things. What is important here is what these people NEED. Personally, I'm pretty tired of hearing people say "I hope Obama follows through with this positive change," or "I wanted the SCOTUS to step up right there." Hope and want might just be what is holding this entire country back.

Several years back, when I was in fifth grade, my teacher told me, "You will always achieve your hopes and dreams as long as you follow them." Hmph! I may still have plenty of time left, but I've already learned that this statement is surely not true. I'd elaborate, but I'd be going off topic. I'll save that for another thread. I "hope" you understand where I was going with that.

What I'm trying to say is what people want, or hope for is not nearly as important as it once was. I'd go as far as saying hope and want ran the entire economy for a while. Now that our economy is fishing in the deep end, we're NEEDING some serious change. Whether it be complete collapse and/or chaos, or something completely peaceful, it no longer matters what we hope for.

Star & Flag for a great thread, but I think a better title would be: "Do we NEED a complete collapse/chaos to happen?"



- Strype

reply to post by Strype


Good points. To me this is almost a two part thread.

1) What people want
2) What cost is appropriate for what the NEEDED outcome is.

Many seem to want to watch everything burn around them. Some just think that everything needs to burn down so we can start over. I think we need to let some things collapse so we can rebuild where needed. But complete chaos and despair is more than necessary in my opinion.

ive thought about this to. alot. i havent been proud of it either aswell. but the way i made sense of it... everyones hoping for it, because they know something like this needs to happen. the only way things can drastically change is if something drastically happends. everybody recognizes a major change needs to take place on this planet, and were really to go through whatever we have to go through to learn from our mistakes and come to a better place. whether we have to go through hell to see the light, were prepared for that.

I feel as though we're going to continue through some rough times which will culminate to a point where we decide that enough is enough.
I believe what will come of all this is the realization that our society must be purged of certain evils: greed, pollution, wars and violence, and of the power elites that control us.

Once everyone stops talking about it and finally decide to take action, we will live in a new age for humanity, and that is precisely what the 2012 enigma is in my opinion. It is a period of time when we live in a truly peaceful world where we learn our true potential. And the only way of reaching our true potential is by experiencing a very negative period of time that opens our eyes and drives us toward positive change, which is exactly what we are going through now.

When we speak of the end of the world, it's not actually going to be doom and gloom and death and destruction. What it means is our old ways of thinking are being shed, a new reality so different from our current one that it in no way resembles what we experience today. Times will get tougher, but in the end that will make us all the more appreciative. There will never be a greater time to be alive.

Keep your chins up folks, we just have to get off our buts and start MAKING change, not waiting for someone else to do it.

So what is it in many of your opinions that will cause this to be the huge shift, when there was a huge shift after the Great Depression?

Is this one going to be worse?

Is it that this one will be more global?

I can see that if we end up in a Depression, it being much worse than the one in the 1930's.

But it seems like there needs to be some additional catalyst than just this economic crisis for a true cultural polar shift to occur.

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


was just wondering if chaos HAS to mean us turning on each other??
taking what we want from others??
doing whatever we like without consequence??

just a thought!

Ask any heavily pregnant woman: "Do you want to be inlabour and suffer the pain?" and her answer will be: "Yes and no". She wants labour to start because it will mean that new life is imminent, but she is not looking forward to the pain and the risk of labour.

I am looking forward to a new world (not the New World Order politicians and captains of industry have in mind, I hasten to add) but when I think about the pain, suffering and countless deaths that will occur before that time, then my stomach ties itself in a knot.

I am looking forward to the time when we can look back and say: "That was the worst time in the history of mankind ever. But look at the new life we have been given!" Wish it was all over already.

In one way no, but in another yes. For some reason I kind of want it to happen. I don't know why, it just seems like something new, something exciting, hard to explain.

I dont need to hope for chaos and anarchy, thats what's going to happen. Of course, i want it to happen because it is what this world needs. The people that believe the actual life will last forever are totally wrong. Demographic grows exponentially, a war, chaos, anarchy, disease would regulate the world as it should have be long ago. Plus, it's right we are manipulated, saw for pawns, that is normal coz human life doesnt worth anything nowadays. The chaos would be the absence of rules, the real freedom but mortality increased. If that happens the first year would be terrible. Due to the amount of humans on earth, there would be multiple civil war, plus a lot of mad people awakening... The true anarchy will show the human's true face, and that is ugly but needed to bring back a balance, even if that costs the humanity. The univers still existed after your grandparents died, it will continue to exist when we all die. Whats the meaning of this? That we arent more than dust and not needed to make the universe exists.

I don't understand why people won't accept that the world has already collapsed. What you lived in for most of your adult lives no longer exists. I think that because most of us have only read about such events in History books, we didn't know what it would look like in reality. If this process completes itself the transformation will have been Seamless...You're Welcome. Its really up to you as an individual to determine how much you will benefit from it.

The only other type of collapse would have too overwhelming for any of you to handle, so you should all enjoy this and learn from it.

FYI, the other type of collapse would involve you witnessing the unveiling and seeing the occupants of Hell spill into your immediate reality and consume the living. The streets would be overun with Killers and you'd be searching for the Police and none would come. Remember the Mongols, Remember Tamerlane...Do not underestimate the very serious business of Immortals!

The very capable Power that Is, decided it would be better for a controlled demolition. It takes a little longer but your sanity and the sanity of your children will be preserved.

reply to post by _damon


Pretty darn sure you got the meaning of life and life's valuable lessons nearly 100% backwards.

Originally posted by johnny2127
I was thinking about it, and was wondering:

Do you want the world and economies to collapse and chaos to reign?

Is a complete collapse and the ensuing chaos needed?

It seems like many people are hoping for this. Seems like many people not only are preparing for it, but really want it to happen. They want to watch the world burn.

Do you? If so, why?

As for myself, its both. I think some collapse is needed for things to be healthier in the long run. But I don't want some massive collapse, anarchy and countless to die.

What do you all think?

[edit on 10-3-2009 by johnny2127]

Like most people, I don't have any shares so therefore It doesn't
effect me.

But seriously....

What's really worse is all countries are in different stages of denial.
There's no point one country being Ok if you've got nobody to buy and
sell to. Which really is basically what started it in the first place.
Every country depends on every other country to make a buck. Which
is a lot different to 1939.

The sooner this train derails, the sooner a new train can be built.
But the sad thing is companies are going bust and the directors are
feathering their own nests and all governments in all countries are
allowing this to happen.

I could never wish for something that will bring so much pain and death to others.

Once the dragons of chaos are loose, they may never be contained again. We are on the verge of some astounding discoveries, to suddenly thrust humanity into another dark age is not something I look forward to.

reply to post by skeptic_al


I wasn't talking about a collapse of the stock market, thats happened. I was talking about a collapse of society, culture, economies, civil behavior, govt's, etc.......

Originally posted by johnny2127
I was thinking about it, and was wondering:

Do you want the world and economies to collapse and chaos to reign?

You think a total collapse and a massive political change will be good. Ask Japan. Ask Zimbabwe. Ask Argentina. Ask Iceland. Cameroon, Russia in 98. We have plenty of references.

Is a complete collapse and the ensuing chaos needed?

Why do we need total chaos to effect change. Why do we need to destroy to have a rebirth, why can't we grow, in a different direction.

It seems like many people are hoping for this. Seems like many people not only are preparing for it, but really want it to happen. They want to watch the world burn.

I guess I have the luxury of living in relative isolation being in Australia. Our banks are sound, we are seeing job losses but nowhere near the levels of Europe and US, we are only forcasting 7.5% unemployment in 2010.
We are seeing forclosure but the housing market is holding onto value due to high demand from renters and buyers(we have seen 10-15% drop in regions but nowhere like UK,US, Europe(Ireland for example).

Do you? If so, why?

No, I would like us to be sane about how we create financial instruments and not a pyramid scheme of gambled debt backed by securities sold on the market to retirement funds and trustees.

As for myself, its both. I think some collapse is needed for things to be healthier in the long run. But I don't want some massive collapse, anarchy and countless to die.

The collapse I would like to see is the banks that have placed themselves in the mess. Let the market reign on these, mark 'em to market, let 'em be bought up or swallowed, folded or whatever. I know it will hurt, but the current remedy will hurt more and last longer, IMHO.

What do you all think?

Only Time will tell. hope we all see this out, safely, peacefully and with as much hope intact for the future as we can.

[edit on 10-3-2009 by johnny2127]