Are you HOPING for a complete collapse and chaos to happen?

No. I dont want a total collapse.

And neither should any of you.

Dreams of epic adventure and romantic notions are juevenile delusions based probably more on boredom in ones own life than any real logical thought.

Societies need restarts, overhauls, tweaks, constant work. But any sane human being should want this to be accomplished without a breakdown in society.

Let me paint a realistic scenario of what the situation could well be like after a true and total breakdwon in society:

1. On day one, the gloom-lovers party hard. Stashes of good smoke they've managed to put back for this very day come out from under mattresses.

2.By the end of week one, however, all sources of communication are now totally down..and with that brings a total lack of outside information. And rest assured, NOTHING you will ever encounter instills more panic than simply not knowing.

3.By the 8th or 9th day one is wondering what the hell is going on...and a sense of isolation builds regardless of any group of 'like minded individuals' one may be associated with. And you would trade your now empty bong pipe for a good tomato sandwich.

4.By the end of the second week all that food and water the 'awake' have been hording to last six months or so is getting very bland and tiring...and much more of it has been consumed than you would have wished.

5.By now the looters in the big cities have given up on plasma-tv looting and turned instead to looting canned spam and beenie-weenies. Suddenly bereft of drug and thug cultural/media support they look a lot more like scared kids than 'gangstas'.

6.Meanwhile, across the tracks, survivalist are still hiding in bunkers, nasty and sick and tired and bored without any outside information. Many already would trade their assault rifles for one good cheesburger.

7.After the first month, most people are missing what they used to take for granted. No more MP3 players for instance, no more text messages or Family Guy. And posting on internet message boards? Forget it.

8. Roughly six weeks or so after the 'collapse' many people still alive find themselves re-evaluating things. Suddenly, everyone is a little more conservative than they used to be---as they tend to an ailing grandmother who is slowly giving into despair and senility.

9.By week seven or so, the despair on the faces of those around you speak much louder than your old boastful posting on a message board of 'collapse' once did....

10. And finally, after about two months you've almost burned through your supply of stored beenie weenies, even sometimes sneaking some in the middle of the night when your children are asleep. Also, you never used to pray, in fact, you were much to enlightened to believe in anything THAT silly.

Now however, you find yourself doing a LOT of things you once would have thought unthinkable.

And tomorrow when an old battered Army National Guard convoy pulls through your town tossing out four packs of Sams club water?

You will go stand in line and take your water and cheer and wave and pray again for a restoration of society.


This isnt the movie 'The Postman' people. Forget your fantasies of adventure-via-chaos and work in your neighborhoods for positive change before this scenario really happens.

Originally posted by Clark Savage Jr.
No. I dont want a total collapse.

And neither should any of you.

Dreams of epic adventure and romantic notions are juevenile delusions based probably more on boredom in ones own life than any real logical thought.

Societies need restarts, overhauls, tweaks, constant work. But any sane human being should want this to be accomplished without a breakdown in society.

Let me paint a realistic scenario of what the situation could well be like after a true and total breakdwon in society:

1. On day one, the gloom-lovers party hard. Stashes of good smoke they've managed to put back for this very day come out from under mattresses.

2.By the end of week one, however, all sources of communication are now totally down..and with that brings a total lack of outside information. And rest assured, NOTHING you will ever encounter instills more panic than simply not knowing.

3.By the 8th or 9th day one is wondering what the hell is going on...and a sense of isolation builds regardless of any group of 'like minded individuals' one may be associated with. And you would trade your now empty bong pipe for a good tomato sandwich.

4.By the end of the second week all that food and water the 'awake' have been hording to last six months or so is getting very bland and tiring...and much more of it has been consumed than you would have wished.

5.By now the looters in the big cities have given up on plasma-tv looting and turned instead to looting canned spam and beenie-weenies. Suddenly bereft of drug and thug cultural/media support they look a lot more like scared kids than 'gangstas'.

6.Meanwhile, across the tracks, survivalist are still hiding in bunkers, nasty and sick and tired and bored without any outside information. Many already would trade their assault rifles for one good cheesburger.

7.After the first month, most people are missing what they used to take for granted. No more MP3 players for instance, no more text messages or Family Guy. And posting on internet message boards? Forget it.

8. Roughly six weeks or so after the 'collapse' many people still alive find themselves re-evaluating things. Suddenly, everyone is a little more conservative than they used to be---as they tend to an ailing grandmother who is slowly giving into despair and senility.

9.By week seven or so, the despair on the faces of those around you speak much louder than your old boastful posting on a message board of 'collapse' once did....

10. And finally, after about two months you've almost burned through your supply of stored beenie weenies, even sometimes sneaking some in the middle of the night when your children are asleep. Also, you never used to pray, in fact, you were much to enlightened to believe in anything THAT silly.

Now however, you find yourself doing a LOT of things you once would have thought unthinkable.

And tomorrow when an old battered Army National Guard convoy pulls through your town tossing out four packs of Sams club water?

You will go stand in line and take your water and cheer and wave and pray again for a restoration of society.


This isnt the movie 'The Postman' people. Forget your fantasies of adventure-via-chaos and work in your neighborhoods for positive change before this scenario really happens.

nice post but your timings are very out.

this is week one.....

I don't.

Please pardon my finger shaking for a moment. I know this little spiel isn't going to be very popular but...

I understand that there is sort of a gestalt social psychological want for a cathartic Event, but that is the quick and dirty way. I am suspicious of the sub-conscious motivations of individuals who want (or think) they want the destruction for the 'Chance To Rebuild'. Spare me. Because, more often then not that 'rebuild' is just a conscience placating salve. What they really want is the destruction for the sake of manifesting their own anger.

In the end it's more or less motivated by knee-jerk emotional responses that really aren't very productive. But they feel good short term. I think there are better ways to restructure our society. Ways that may be more work, and not nearly as emotionally satisfying in the short term as a good ol' armageddon fest, but that would be more stable in the long term.

On a more selfish note. If this does go tits up, my husband and I are both completely dependent on medication for our survival. So I'm dead within a few days, and he is dead within a few months, and our nine year old daughter is left to fend for herself. Think about that for a minute. Now, multiply that by the tens of thousands or better. The sorrow, the pain, the fear, the human loss and torment that will be perpetuated by this, by people--children--who had no choice, no say. Look at the historical record, the human toll of it. Look at what you really want to start here.

I see a lot of kids clamoring for this. And a lot of disillusioned, disaffected, angry adults clamoring for this. Many of these don't really understand what that kind of brutality is.

Because of a murky past, I know what it is to be surrounded by people who will kill you. I know what it is to be beaten to the ground (literally.) I know what it is to have to beat some one else first, just to survive. I have looked down the wrong end of a gun more than once. None of this is a rush. None of this is fun. And even when you have out-bullied some one, you don't come out feeling powerful, or dominant. You come out afraid of retaliation down the road. Dignity has nothing to do with base survival, only fear.

I am very wary of people who want this kind of chaos. With few exceptions they fit into two categories--Either they don't actually understand what real brutality is, and are getting caught up in the rush and fear and need to feel in control of an increasingly out of control situation, or they are simply psychotic, and want a world where it is socially acceptable to manifest their own brutality.

"Have the courage to act instead of react."

--Earlene Larson Jenks

Originally posted by redhorse
I don't.

Please pardon my finger shaking for a moment. I know this little spiel isn't going to be very popular but...

I understand that there is sort of a gestalt social psychological want for a cathartic Event, but that is the quick and dirty way. I am suspicious of the sub-conscious motivations of individuals who want (or think) they want the destruction for the 'Chance To Rebuild'. Spare me. Because, more often then not that 'rebuild' is just a conscience placating salve. What they really want is the destruction for the sake of manifesting their own anger.

In the end it's more or less motivated by knee-jerk emotional responses that really aren't very productive. But they feel good short term. I think there are better ways to restructure our society. Ways that may be more work, and not nearly as emotionally satisfying in the short term as a good ol' armageddon fest, but that would be more stable in the long term.

On a more selfish note. If this does go tits up, my husband and I are both completely dependent on medication for our survival. So I'm dead within a few days, and he is dead within a few months, and our nine year old daughter is left to fend for herself. Think about that for a minute. Now, multiply that by the tens of thousands or better. The sorrow, the pain, the fear, the human loss and torment that will be perpetuated by this, by people--children--who had no choice, no say. Look at the historical record, the human toll of it. Look at what you really want to start here.

I see a lot of kids clamoring for this. And a lot of disillusioned, disaffected, angry adults clamoring for this. Many of these don't really understand what that kind of brutality is.

Because of a murky past, I know what it is to be surrounded by people who will kill you. I know what it is to be beaten to the ground (literally.) I know what it is to have to beat some one else first, just to survive. I have looked down the wrong end of a gun more than once. None of this is a rush. None of this is fun. And even when you have out-bullied some one, you don't come out feeling powerful, or dominant. You come out afraid of retaliation down the road. Dignity has nothing to do with base survival, only fear.

I am very wary of people who want this kind of chaos. With few exceptions they fit into two categories--Either they don't actually understand what real brutality is, and are getting caught up in the rush and fear and need to feel in control of an increasingly out of control situation, or they are simply psychotic, and want a world where it is socially acceptable to manifest their own brutality.

"Have the courage to act instead of react."

--Earlene Larson Jenks

Unfortunatley, those who rely in others will always have a cross to bear.

i believe no one wnats to go through what it is that is happening, though there is certainly people who will wantit much, much less.

its a good story though, don't you think?

I find it amusing that people who want this have the luxury of living in a place where they are relatively safe and don't have to worry too much about where they will find their next meal. There's no doubt that the individuals looking forward to some apocalyptic event are young and inexperienced in life.

Yes. Order to Chaos, back to Order. It is the way.

I believe the sentiment felt by most is they are sick of "big brother" and think that chaos will trump big brother. In all reality, it feeds into more power and control for them. When we lose are three basic needs in life (food, shelter, water), they will have the "answers" for us. We will get sucked right back in, and before you know it, we are exactly where we were repeating the same things.
If people want change so bad, start doing your own little part. Quit feeding into this greed machine that has hovered over our lives for the last century. Sure capitalism is about greed, but the design was for survival of ideas/morales that worked, oh, and competition.
This idea that as an individual, you will weather a chaotic storm is ludicrous. Ok, so you have a gun. Guns take bullets. Bullets take "people" to manufacture. With no people manufacturing, no bullets. Sure, I have a stock-pile of ammo for my gun. What 10 box of shells? 100? The point is, you will only make it so long on the ideas that someone is better than the other. Unite. Don't buy into the fear that is trying to be created. Yes there are hard times ahead. Perserverance is in the human heart. And as individuals we can only motivate ourselves so much. But as a "team" we build off of strengths as well as weaknesses.
I myself have fallen victim to the change is needed idea. To get the positive change we need, we need to be more proactive instead of letting "experts" tell us whats best for everyone. Otherwise, liberties and freedoms will be taken away at the cost of safety/morality/any excuse you can think of.

A collapse is, unfortunately, needed to rid ourselves of the cancer we call "the New World Order."

i just wished everyone got along and we could sing kumbayah all the time.

seriously....

i want to sit in a field and daydream about nothing. or eat icecream till my head hurts.

i want to fish in clear lakes, and bike through pristine hills.

say hello to my neighbors and walk to the movies with my girl.

go to a nice dinner and say ISNT LIFE WONDERFUL??

and i want everyone else in the world to experience this as well.

theres too much focus on the bad, and not enough on good. even while writing this i had to really concentrate to not put something negative in there as a HOWEVER, but i think i did OK.

why dont we all just hold hands and get along??

(prepared to be assaulted now)

One a brighter note, if civil collapse and widespread rioting broke out, the government might all head en masse to the nearest bunkers, giving the rest of us the opportunity to weld the doors permanently shut!

Seriously though, why would everything collapse? Ever notice how after natural disasters, many people start banding together, cooperating in getting things back to some sort of order for everyone? People do that without the intervention of government, can organise themselves and get through the worst of things. The governments know this.
Sure, there are those who have been so dumbed down that they would be entirely helpless without their cable tv and takeouts, who are usually the ones who'll go loot a new tv rather than do anything helpful. Those will be the people that will either have to buck up or find themselves cast out of communities to fend for themselves, and rightly so.

Life will go on, perhaps in a more meaningful way, without big government telling everyone what to do whilst contributing nothing themselves and expecting to be treated like royalty.

[edit on 11-3-2009 by Britguy]

No.

But, I feel something is going to happen, so I am preparing the best I can. The best sentence in this thread so far is about having two fire extinguishers, but not wishing for a fire.

I have been there, done that. Lived on an island and fended for myself for 2 months. I did miss things. At first. But I came away from that a better person. It was hard, not romantic at all, and I worked from sun up to sundown. But I have a strong work ethic.

So much of the troubles, not just in this country, but in this world, are IMHO directly linked to moral decline. Criminal government, criminal banking, investment, con artists, theives.

Lazy people who refuse to work for a living and then blame it on others, over population, and the soon to come hyperinflation scare me almost as much. Nothing has real value anymore. We live in a throwaway society where everything is disposeable, replaceable, and few things are cheished.

I wonder. If something big were to happen, not how I would survive, I can hunt, garden, sew, cook, can, make goods to sell, do all sorts of creative crafts.

I have the tools, the will, and the intellect - right next to my weapons if need be - but what about making my house payments?

Would there be a government left to come after me and take my home? I have things to barter with, but would a bank really take 5 lbs of sugar? 50 lbs of rice? I know wise people would see it as gold. Would there even BE a bank?

How odd it would be to wake up and not have to go to work. No mail. No electricity, probably no running water. At least not at first. Only the gas in your car, then you walk.

I have one of those wind up radios, and a shake flashlight. But, what would there be to listen to?

I doubt it will be like the first depression, but I would like to see normalizing of prices back to realism where greed is not at the forefront of every sale.

I would like to see a return back to bartering, trading services with like minded people, and neighborhoods where you can actually trust your neighbors and know they would have your back.

How nice to find someone willing to come cut a tree down that would just love some canned foods and candles, and perhaps even a quilt, instead of 2 months worth of car payments?

I know I have pulled my family in closer than ever. We discuss the events unfolding before us, and we wait. We have plans to meet up, plans to survive. No, it won't be romantic, it won't be fun.

I think so many have lost the idea, or never had it, of what hard work really is. No one wants to work 16 hours a day tilling gardens and tending the flocks, but what you take from that is one of the biggest factors that is lacking in today's society of entitlement. It's so hard to appreciate what you have if you always had it, or getting it came easy. Being defensive of it is not necessarily appreciating it.

No longer would it be gardening for fun, but for survival. Sewing would not be at a quilt party to make a wedding or shower present for someone, but piecing a quilt from old clothes to stay warm in the winter months.

You would have to sew your own clothes, and repair torn ones, rather than just buying new ones. Repairing shoes, fixing things, and nothing would be disposable anymore.

I think there would still be stores, but how do you pay 10 dollars for a gallon of mik? Or 14 dollars fr a loaf of bread? 29 dollars for a gallon of gas? That is where I see this heading. Perhaps before the collapse, or whatever is looming on the horizon for us.

We have necessities, niceties, and we are ready to meet up for a bugout if necessary. I hope it never comes to that.

I see the stock market, and I see graphs of how we have dropped lower than the Great Depression. I think we are in one, and like the recession, it will be months, maybe years, before anyone "admits" it.

We are planning together for the fire, but if it never comes, what's wrong with having the fire extinguisher?

yes a part of me want's the system to collapse because i know how fraudulent it is...........and this i believe is a wide spread thought process here........HOWEVER i don't think many of us have thought this thru (including myself) as i posted on the Celente prediction thread.

Should people experience such PAIN associated with a collapse.......they themselves would say " i was wrong for wanting this" and we would clamour for a solution to simply reduce the pain......and may delude ourselves into thinking we were wrong about the Fascist NWO........and choose to believe it's "not that bad" because that may give us peace of mind in a world we feel helpless to mold (at least i think this maybe a powerful thought process to resist)

but look currently...We know the current system is corrupt......part of the anger surrounding it maybe that we BELIEVED the revisionist history we are taught (or choose to believe it) .....you know the learning we undergo about history.. that doesn't touch much on fraud...or violence (unless the violence is attatched to usually one individual by name) when it is hundreds and thousands usually that were "evil". So first we should realize that history was always corrupt....and the good ole days weren't really that good....that doesnot justify today's fraud...but put's it in perspective .....and may reduce the outrage that leads to people wishing for a collapse....or maybe i'm wrong and we are willing to face the pain of a collapse because we hope there is a chance that during the process of collapse....people may actually change the system for the better....to sustain society

currently the more i think about it the more overwhelming it becomes and i try to keep things simple

I wish for myself to by happy and have peace of mind.....once that is accomplished it is easier for me to wish the same on others close to me....and then to others that i may not know.....

No I do not want such a thing. I have worked hard for the little I have. I rather like the comforts of electricity, warm and cold indoor plumbing, being away from the elements in a climate I can control. And I like to come to ATS for entertainment.

Aside from that though I have a young child. I have been through hard times on my own and know how hard it really can be. I know it would be worse with a young child, not to mention my grandmother who I love that is 89. Now I see people wanting to take my family away from me which is the most important thing I have on this rock. I say wanting to take it away because the reality is my grandmother and most likely my son would be counted as a loss. Those wanting to take my family away from me should have to suffer some real pain from some time. If it comes to such an event I would personally hunt those responsible down and die ending their lives. It is fun and games to pretend how invincible one is. But when you start toying with my family I’ll slit your throat or put a bullet in your head before you can say “I’m sorry”.

Logic tells a person that a total collapse would be a truly horrid thing. I would bet that most everyone on this thread if not everyone would eventually perish in a garbage heap while watching someone they care about being gang raped by mindless thugs with bigger weapons than they had. Yeah sounds like a great time seeing your family drag along and feel pains due to hunger or emotional trauma because a released convict used them as a piece of pleasure meat. Yeah often many forget they must sleep at some point and even the “alliance” one forms with a “trusted” neighbor could falter as soon as that neighbor notices something you have they want, possibly the loved one sleeping beside you. While they are watching your back they are really planning on putting a knife in that back. People are untrustworthy, why put trust in people when times are really hard when they will steal from you now when times are not as bad as they will become.

No in a time like that the only person you can trust is yourself and maybe much of your family. But still you have to sleep some time. You also have to stop and eat, use the restroom, and rest. I think over 90% of those in this thread would die within the first two months if such an event happened. Sounds great though to wish hardship on others until you face the sad truth of the real world hardship in front of you. I would be willing to bet that many wishing for such a collapse are really just bitter at someone out there who might be better off than they are. I too wish I had a better life and did not have to wonder about cash, but I just dig in deeper and go forward. Wishing hardship on others should be the last thing on our minds.

I never said it was bad to hope for change and to try and get that change. Certainly there needs to be a change but not a complete collapse. It is not only foolish but downright stupid to want such a thing. If you want total collapse head to Mexico (which is still not in total collapse yet) now and have a blast. Because when there is total collapse these gangs that are better armed and more used to being banded together are going to come for you and those you love. They will take whatever they want and you will be helpless to stop them.

Change is needed yes but not a collapse. Anyone who thinks they are going to take my family is going to die or I will die fighting them.

Those wanting full collapse should really put some deeper thought into their words and wishes.


Raist

I am really split on this. In terms of war I am all for peace even though I think the armed forces should be treated better and increased. But there is something about me that loves the purity of anarchy. No right and wrong, no morals. If the world went to hell and had so start again it would probably solve a hell of a lot of problems. Whether or not I could survive till the reboot worries me though.

So overall although I sometimes wish for anarchy I really want stability. But who knows with the world continually getting worse my mind may choose soon.

Originally posted by johnny2127
Do you want the world and economies to collapse and chaos to reign?

HECK NO! Everyone in my family has asthma. If that were to happen we'd be out of meds quickly. The first time a head cold came through we'd be dead.

All the sick people everywhere would suffer and die.
The healthy would suffer when they became sick.

It would be awful. The economies have to stay afloat.
Otherwise - the break down would cause a medical disaster.

I have created a thread HERE with the proposed plans and initiatives to create the New Govt. once the collapse begins. All creative minds are welcome....

If chaos and disorder do reign what will really change?.
Isn't this the illuminati, bilderbergers grand plan for the world so people become so demoralised they then gladly accept a global dictatorship?.
Then we'll just be back at square one being subjugated and subjected to even more misery in the world.

I would to be to able to live a truly free life as god (whatever that is) intended, but i don't think that will happen in our lifetime.

[edit on 11/3/2009 by survivor]

reply to post by guessing


What???

Honestly, I am HIGHLY disappointed that so many people want things to turn to chaos.

Does NO ONE realize that doing something extremely rash like that will lead to the FORCED control of what little freedoms we think we have left, martial law, etc. etc. etc...

Shouldn't this be common sense to us by now? Especially here of all places?

Also, the term 'survival of the fittest' started in the eugenics movement.

How about the only way things will turn out is the way people want them to. Its too bad that most of you people want things to burn.

Why is it that everyone just accepts that 'Oh, so what if a bunch of people die, starve, etc.? Not MY problem.' News flash. That is the problem.

Maybe if we learned to have the mentality that in times of need we help each other out, that is the true way to get through something.

In the end, we truly determine what happens, because there are a heck of alot more people below than people up top. (Hence, why this entire system is a game of chess.)

TPTB aren't going to feel a breeze if one day people decide to start rioting and looting each other. They will sit on top of a hill and watch while the city below them burns, toasting because their valiant efforts to disillusion everyone into putting themselves into the position of checkmate had worked.

Honestly people. THINK here.

You People Are Crazy.

Seems like almost everybody wants society to collapse and chaos to rule.

I, for one, do not. Tyranny and oppression will then have the best possible advantage. I'm all for limiting and resisting tyranny when its already here, and above that, preventing it any chance of growth whatsoever. Lets not play into the future tyrant's hands.

Order and Rule of Law to fight tyrants. Not chaos.

I'm warning you.

[edit on 11-3-2009 by spec2]