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reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 02:38 AM by DaMod
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reply to post by RuneSpider
Yeah, I did some research after I posted and it seems I should have researched further.
Diorite however seems that it cannot be worked by much other than diamonds. In fact it seems that the other materials that can work Diorite are not
common in the region. They would have needed to collect a lot of it in order to complete their work. I have yet to find any information as to the
tools they used since none where found. Interesting.
Do not be so quick to forsake or dismiss the possibility that this was under the guidance of a race not of this world. Don't be quick to think that
it was either (to all the omg it was made by alienz people). Science and it's method is supposed to allow for all variables including the ET
variable.
Do not be quick to deny or conclude that it is impossible that the ET believers fantasy is wrong. That would be bastardizing the scientific method.
Allow all variables even the ones you think impossible. This is what discovery is all about!
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reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 03:24 AM by paraphi
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Originally posted by DaMod
How could an ancient people carve stones that can only be cut with diamonds without any diamonds? Impossible, cant be done.
Wait yes it can! They could have used lasers! Or or explosives or or a magnesium torch!
Get real...
Read post above.
To suggest diorite cannot be worked is fantastical and wrong. If that is a key point in the “aliens did it” argument then the whole argument is
undermined and flawed.
A large number of ancient cultures used diorite, including for intricate carvings and they did this by employing the tools they had to hand which did
not include diamond cutters or any other modern techniques which are employed today to increase processing and production throughput.
The greatest tool human kind had always employed has been their brain. Just because a 21st century man would never grind his fingers to the bone
sanding down a rock does not mean his ancestors a few thousand years ago did not.
Regards
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reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 05:48 AM by Unregistered
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Originally posted by riggs2099
Please... if a highly advanced species decided to build something for us then why would they use rocks. I am sure they would be able to do a lot
better. This is just reaching and that is all it is.
You have a point. Unfortunately, portland cement, rebar, steel, engineered boards, and all of those construction materials that we currently use today
can only last for a few hundred years before they turn to dust. Stone on the other hand lasts much longer (e.g. Pyramids, Stonehenge, et. al).
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reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 06:22 AM by Zosynspiracy
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Some of you skeptics are hilarious.............some of the blocks at PumaPunku weighed as much as 100-130 tons. LMAO! If you think llama skins,
ropes, ramps, and inclined planes were responsible for moving these behemoths up a "steep" incline from 20 miles away. Also they managed to use
descriptive geometry, highly advanced stone cutting technology yet had no writing system and the wheel played no part. However they did they had some
help either from ETs, Aliens, or some sort of buried technology ala sound levitation etc.
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reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 10:16 AM by Hanslune
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reply to post by Zosynspiracy
People have moved much heavier loads with similar 'limited' technology. Remember they had many generations of experience with stone working.
You would be wise to talk with an experience mason.
Why aliens would build stone building is kinda odd- why not concrete?
Unfortunately, portland cement, rebar, steel, engineered boards, and all of those construction materials that we currently use today can only last for
a few hundred years before they turn to dust
Incorrect, high quality concrete lasts for tens of thousands of years. Note the Roman construction using it and the shape they are in.
[edit on 13/10/09 by Hanslune]
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reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 10:41 AM by Ignorance Denied
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Originally posted by punkinworks09
reply to post by UnitedSatesofFreemasons
someone watched the ancient astronauts show.
sorry but aint buying it.
The temple at Pumapunku is impressive and shows a great deal of stone cutting skill.
It is made of diorite a very hard igneous rock.
But its no where near as hard as diamond, no where near.
Diorite was used by many ancient cultures for carving things where fine detail was required. And it polishes very well.
The code of Hamurabi is carved in a diorite pillar.
The egyptians carved in it as did all of the ancient middle eastern cultures.
It was used for cobble stones and to build castles.
the wikki says the akkadians went to war to aquire it.
None of those people had diamond tipped tools to work it.
there are several ways to make the straight grooves, one is to saw it with a copper saw. Just like the do in quarries today and have for thousads of
years.
First you chisel a starter groove then
You take a flat bar of copper saw it back and forth with water and sand, small grains of aluminum oxide(quartz) will imbed in the copper bar and
slowly and finely grind away the stone. Its time consuming and labor intensive.
drilling the holes is accomplished in the same manner
you have a copper rod that is the drill.
it is mounted to a wooden dowel, we'll call that the spindle. you build a wooden frame to support the spindle.
well say its like a table without a top, you have four legs connected by cross supports at the top and maybe the bottom.
there are 2 verticle boards on opposite sides of the frame that have a groove or slot running on center from top to bottom, a long groove like
mortise.
On the bottom is a board, with stubs on the ends that fit tightly in the grooves, has a hole in its center that guides the spindle.
on the top is another board that has maybe has a dished piece of stone mounted in the center, this is the thrust bearing for the spindle.
it has tenons that allow it to move freely up and down in the groove on the frame, and handles which a couple of big guys can put force down into the
end of the spindle.
Add a bow to drive the spindle and you have a basic drill press that has been used for millenia.
As the bowmen drive the spindle back and forth the big guys push down on the spindle another adds sand and water and you drill a hole.
you put a stop peg in or use a gauge block and every hole is the same depth.
the indians of the area did use copper and bronze , copper is what they poured into the dogbone tie grooves.
The dog bones do intrigue me as that system shows up in other cultures separated by huge gulfs of time and distance.
there was very good documentary done at tiahuanaco with local stone masons, they showed the film maker how the stones were cut in the quarry and how
they transported them and how they carved the stones. They were working with a small number of men, but they were able to move fairly large stones
with ease. It was easy to see how if you multiplied the number of men you could move much larger stones.
And it was amazing how much work one carver could do.
Im almost certain that one of the many earthquakes that rock the andes brought the temple down.
the notion that tiahunaco and the surrounding structures are 14000 years old is ludicrous, they have been dated by sound scientific methods.
Your so clever, NOT!!!!! Seems like you've just copied everything you wrote from a book, or a website. copy and paste, pure dumbness
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reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 02:48 PM by Harte
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Originally posted by Ignorance Denied
Your so clever, NOT!!!!! Seems like you've just copied everything you wrote from a book, or a website. copy and paste, pure dumbness
Riiiight.
And where did you copy and paste your keenly insightful commentary from?
LOL
Harte
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reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 02:56 PM by paraphi
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reply to post by Zosynspiracy
Um. The problem with the alien fantasy is that there is no evidence, but there is reasonable speculation and explanation that people had the skills
and inclination to make all these ancient monuments themselves. After all, just because you don’t think your ancestors had the means to work, shape
and move 100 ton blocks of stone does not mean that they do not or could not do it.
Our ancestors did extraordinary things with rudimentary tools. Just because their achievements are beyond your experience does not mean that aliens
are involved, it just means you have not reconciled yourself with the facts or given the credit they are due for their achievements.
Regards
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reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 12:06 AM by mcrom901
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reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 03:30 AM by projectvxn
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reply to post by punkinworks09
I just have one correction. Aluminum Oxide in fused form is not quartz. It is corundum(ruby, sapphire). Quartz is silicon dioxide. diorite is very
hard stuff and it is because it is essentially a composite of minerals varying in hardness from low to high on the Moh's scale. The highest would be
8 that I've seen, and that is less than corundum
which stands at 9-9.5 Moh's. You could cut the stuff with a corundum saw or a diamond saw, but simple copper tools would not stand up to the job and
not 14000 years ago.
[edit on 16-10-2009 by projectvxn]
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reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 04:08 AM by Hanslune
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reply to post by projectvxn
No one ever used copper tools to cut diorite - it too hard that is why they use quartz sand to grind their way thru. It can also be split and rough
shape by common stone working methods.
Unfortunately the term diorite covers a wide range of material that vary in hardness because its a mix of minerals within this igneous rock. The
harder stuff was used as tools to smash thru limestone and granite while the 'softer' was used for domestic items and artwork.
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reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 04:25 AM by projectvxn
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reply to post by Hanslune
I'm obviously aware. I was addressing a claimade that diorite rock
could have been fashioned to such a high degree with copper.
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reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 04:34 AM by Hanslune
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Hanslune
I'm obviously aware. I was addressing a claimade that diorite rock
could have been fashioned to such a high degree with copper.
My apologies Project, who made that claim please?
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reply posted on 16-10-2009 @ 05:49 PM by projectvxn
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reply to post by Hanslune
The guy I was replying to in my post. The user name is there. I was also correcting his assertion that aluminum oxide is quartz.
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reply posted on 18-10-2009 @ 09:49 AM by mcrom901
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check this.......
www.spacedaily.com...
Tropical South America has endured alternating periods of heavy rainfall and severe drought during the last 25,000 years, according a new study in
the journal Science. The report -- based on geological evidence from one of South America's largest lakes -- demonstrates how nature can produce
sudden, unexpected climate changes that affect the entire planet. The study, which appeared in the Jan. 26 issue of Science, uses sediment samples
taken from the bottom of Lake Titicaca -- the world's highest lake navigable to large vessels. Straddling the border between Bolivia and Peru,
Titicaca is 120 miles long, 50 miles wide and has average depth of 500 feet. The lake is located more than 2 miles above sea level on the Altiplano,
or High Plateau, of the northern Andes Mountains. "The Altiplano is like a giant cup, and Titicaca is the deepest point in the vast plateau, so most
of the precipitation in the Altiplano drains into the lake," says Stanford geologist Robert B. Dunbar, one of the authors of the Science study.
Because very little water drains out of Titicaca, the lake serves as a reliable archive of rainfall patterns over many centuries -- not just on the
Altiplano, but in a large portion of tropical South America, according to Dunbar and his co-authors. "Titicaca is the only large and deep freshwater
lake in South America, and in deeper portions of the lake, sediment has accumulated continuously for at least the past 25,000 years," they add. The
authors point out that earlier studies of Titicaca relied on coring samples from the lake bottom taken at depths of 150 feet or less. To obtain an
older and more complete climate record, a team of geologists led by Science co-author Paul A. Baker of Duke University collected three new samples at
270 feet, 450 feet and 690 feet below the surface. Baker, Dunbar and their colleagues were able to reconstruct a history of precipitation in the
Altiplano by determining how water levels in Lake Titicaca changed during the last 25,000 years. The researchers used a variety of techniques to
analyze the salinity, chemistry and microfossil content of the ancient lakebed. The most direct method involved counting fossilized diatoms --
microscopic single-celled algae often found in lakes. Some diatom species live near the surface, while others inhabit the deep. By comparing the
abundance of deep- versus shallow-water fossils in each core sample, researchers were able to determine whether the lake level was high or low in a
particular season. Dramatic changes After analyzing all three core samples, the scientists concluded that the lake -- and therefore the entire
Altiplano -- has undergone a series of dramatic changes since the Ice Age was at its peak between 26,000 and 15,000 years ago. "Lake Titicaca was a
deep, fresh and continuously overflowing lake during the last glacial stage," according to the Science study, "signifying that the Altiplano of
Bolivia and Peru and much of the Amazon basin were wetter than today." Then, about 15,000 years ago, the Altiplano underwent a significant change. A
dry era was launched, which continued for the next 2,000 years, causing Lake Titicaca to drop significantly. Between 13,000 and 11,500 years ago,
Titicaca began overflowing once again. This wet period was followed by 1,500 years of relative dryness, followed by another 2,500 years of heavy
precipitation as the lake again rose to overflow levels. Then, about 8,500 years ago, the lake level fell sharply as the Altiplano again became dry.
But heavy precipitation would return for another 1,000 years, only to be followed by an extremely dry period between 6,000 and 5,000 years ago, during
which Titicaca fell some 250 feet below its present-day level -- its lowest level in 25,000 years. Titicaca finally began rising again 4,500 years
ago. Since then, the southern portion of the lake has overflowed its banks numerous times. Millennial time-scale What caused these thousand-year
cycles of extreme wetness and aridity? For an answer, the authors turned to geological climate studies of the Atlantic Ocean. It turns out that,
since the last Ice Age, the North Atlantic has experienced periods of unusually cold surface temperature, often lasting 1,000 years or more and
accompanied by centuries of intense precipitation. According to the authors, these periods of plunging sea temperatures match the cycles of extreme
wetness revealed in the Lake Titicaca core samples. The fact that alternating periods of dryness and wetness occur on a millennial time-scale or
longer may be influenced, in part, by the behavior of the Earth as it orbits the sun. For example, the Earth's rotational axis gradually changes
direction every 26,000 years -- a process called precession. As a result, parts of the Earth that are relatively close to the sun during summer today
will be farther away during summer thousands of years from now. So far, scientists do not have a complete explanation for the periodic climate
changes in the Altiplano. For example, why did the water level of Lake Titicaca suddenly plunge to its lowest level 6,000 years ago? "This drop
occurred very suddenly in just two or three centuries," notes Dunbar, "suggesting that there can be rapid changes that occur in nature that we
don't know much about. Natural variability can be enormous, so we'd better get a full understanding of how these systems work before we try to tease
out the impact of humans on climate change."
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