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At what point turns evidence become proof?
- When it's seeable + hearable: either LIVE footage, by others and myself
- When it's measurable
- When one can TOUCH it
- When one can take samples of blood, skin etc
- When pictures and footage are flooding the world, web include
Originally posted by nablator
Your thread confuses three issues.
The first question that you seem to focus on exclusively is do UFOs exist?
UFOs (call them dragons if you must) are real. They are objects. That fly. That are unidentified. That UFOs are real is not debatable: countless reports attest the physical reality of unknown aerial phenomena. Reasonable skeptics do not deny the reality of UFOs. Every unaccounted for radar echo is a UFO. Every strange light in the sky is a UFO.
Originally posted by dragonking76
As Learhoag said (starred). The saying "seeing is believing" is so very true for nearly all human knowledge/theory. There are always exceptions depending on the individual and how open they are to 'dragons.'
Originally posted by Malcram
Fantastic thread. S & F. I'd like to echo the sentiments of one poster - don't recall who, sorry - who pointed out that those who refuse to accept the evidence as "proof" until close to number 18 are perhaps being rather inconsistent.
There are many things that even the greatest of skeptics here accept as true with FAR less evidence. How many of us have personally seen an atom? Or an atomic explosion for that matter? Or many of the countless 'natural' space phenomena that we are told of and perhaps have seen in photographs? If you think about it, there are countless phenomena which skeptics use to debunk UFO sightings which they have never personally witnesses and yet are prepared to reference as 'real' and an more likely alternative to 'alien craft' etc!
It's our prejudice which is often in the driving seat which we falsely call being 'logical' or 'rational' or 'skeptical'. I would have more respect for those positions if they were applied consistently. But they are not. They are applied inconsistently and irrationally based on prejudice.
IMO, At this point, it is only extreme prejudice, narrow-mindedness, or slavish deference to the pronouncements of 'powers that be' - whether they be political, religious or scientific - that holds back the fact of ET piloted craft in our skies from being accepted as a rather obvious truth.
[edit on 10-3-2009 by Malcram]
Originally posted by Total Package
Just read your thread after I posted mine... and you're exactly right. Skeptics or as I prefer to call them debunkers... # me to tears because they pick and choose what they want to believe to fit whatever their agenda is.
They love using buzzwords such as "The burden of Proof is on you" yet rarely if ever give EVIDENCE themselves to prove that their theories are correct.
Originally posted by nosmokinggun
I would have to disagree with everyone that #18 is where you consider something to be real..
For example I have never seen a shark with my own eyes, does that mean they are not real??
I suspect we can all think of some animal that we have not seen with our own eyes that we know is real and in existence..
I think it would be a combination of a lot of those points and an accepted belief within society that dragons were real that would make me belief in them even if I have not seen one with my own eyes..
As for UFO's they are only UFO's until they are identified.. which is why they will remain mostly a mystery.. until I think a government puts there hands up and says it was us.. or it was them.. or both.. which is not likely to happen as they can use the UFO phenomena to cover up black projects.. as for NASA they see it.. all you got to do is look at the footage.. some of the astronauts reports that are finally coming out.. still we all don't believe.. so going back to the original question when do we believe.. I think some things are easier to believe then others.. and maybe there are some things the masses just don't want to believe..
interesting spin using dragons.. like it!!!