Stop blaming Jesus for so-called 'Christian' acts

Originally posted by TrueBrit
One of the most difficult things about being a believer in christ, is that many of the original scriptures are hidden, either in vaults which the vatican (or associated organisations of varying degrees of legality) control, and quite frankly, I dont think anyone who has studied the faith truely thinks that everything that Jesus wanted in the bible , ended up there. It is truely a leap of faith, because all we really have , are portions of the truth, and the blanks we have had to fill for ourselves.

None of the Bible is hidden. Jesus said "Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away," and in Psalms 12:6,7 it says "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation forever."

Originally posted by Salt of the Earth

Originally posted by Yummy Freelunch
Back in ALL our forfather's day, there was a Goddess worship. Things were simple and happy. They lived by the season, sewed their grain, harvested it, and lived by it.
Was there more than met the eye? Of course there was, but everything was grand, why bother?
Then came the introduction of a male god. And religion, and persecution, and slavery by means of SIN!
How can you worship a god that doesn't let you be YOU? That keeps you in fear?
Fear is not good, fear is a negative energy. And dont tell me you arent constantly in fear of committing a sin.
You are NOT a god, you are a human being. You can NOT be perfect, and so you will always SIN, according to your god. What kind of life is that to live? Always living in sin, always feeling repressed, it's like living with a Gestapo!
Look, we all know right from wrong, we've known it always, it was instilled in us. There should be NO Gestapo watching over us, we punish ourselves enough.. Just think when the last time you went to sleep with a clear conscious was.

It makes no difference what sex God is or is not. I don't think God is a sex at all, but God created the sexes. God is above and beyond sex, doesn't need a sex to be God. God is the creator of all. Jesus is God who took the form of a human, as a man, but as a man who came to suffer for us, to give himself to all of us, men and women, to the Jew first and also to the rest of humankind. The Holy Spirit, part of the triune God, who the Bible says proceeds from God the Father and God the Son together, is referred to in the book of Proverbs as female, but again the Holy Spirit is in actuality without sex, and Creator, as is Jesus also Creator.

As to the Gestapo watching over us and keeping us from doing our natural inclinations, it is natural for people to want to kill, lie, steal, to do all kinds of wickedness, and if we did not curb these desires we would be worse than animals.

God's desire for us is that we live in peace and harmony with each other, that we learn to be selfless and good as God is good, and that we allow God to help us to overcome our tendencies to be mean, selfish and hateful to others.

This life is a blip on the radar, and we will have an eternity to reap the rewards of walking with God if we can put our priorities wehre they belong and not live for self and for the moment.

IM sorry to disagree, but ive NEVER wanted to kill anything! I even save moths and let them go outside. Im a horrible liar, I tried it when i was younger, and knew I'd never get away with it.
Stealing, NO! I work hard for what I have, and have even gone back to a store to tell them they gave me too much change!
I have to disagree with you. It is NOT in everyone's nature to do bad to others. I would give the shirt off my back to someone that needed it, without blinking an eye. And would NEVER harm another, human or otherwise And who taught me that? It was instilled in me, I have always felt a compassion for life.
My sig says it all.

[edit on 17-3-2009 by Yummy Freelunch]

Originally posted by Astyanax

Originally posted by moocowman
It's interesting that you say "showed people how to live " and not "told people how to live"... perhaps that is where the other type of christians are getting it wrong do you think?

No, he expected people to do as he said, not as he did.

If he existed at all and if the Gospel accounts are to be considered credible, Jesus was a freeloader who, for at least three years, never did an honest day's work in his life but leeched off the people he conned with his love-thy-neighbour schtick.

To judge by his actions, Jesus wasn't very loving at all. He set families and friends against one another - and bragged about it. He treated other people's property with contempt, walking his disciples through other people's fields, damaging the crops and letting them eat the corn. He rustled other people's livestock and put a curse on their orchard-trees so that they would bear no fruit. He vilified, beat and castigated respectable merchants who were simply doing their jobs. He was bad-tempered, scolding and self-righteous; he habitually insulted people to their faces, calling them things like 'hypocrite' and 'whited sepulchre' and 'nation of vipers'. He largely ignored his poor old mother; whenever he did speak to her, he was dismissive and rude. He diverted charitable offerings to his personal use. He put his own people, the Jews, in danger by upsetting the Roman authorities.

Moreove, Jesus was quite open about hs agenda of violence and injustice: I bring, he boasted, not peace but a sword.

Originally posted by spellbound
And if he was around now, he would destroy all churches and all banks

What? The same Jesus who told Jews to be good little Roman subjects and pay their taxes? The same Jesus who told investment parables about risk and reward and encouraged speculation? The same Jesus who encouraged his disciples to take no thought for tomorrow, to eschew financial prudence and spend, spend, spend rather than save? The same Jesus whose underwear turned out to be woven out of a single piece of cloth without a seam - the La Perla of its day? You're joking, right?

Yep, this is all the lies about Jesus that you will read in the Talmud. I suppose you are a Talmudic Jew, hating the "Scoundrel" Jesus, who your Talmud says is now burning in firey excrement, and whose mother was a whore?

The Jews think it's great that the government be used as tax collectors to take the money from the goyim to send to Israel, to bomb Muslims and Christians, to flatten their cities as in Beirut, Lebanon, two years ago, to use the goyim to help them steal the land of the Palestinians and to shock and awe them with bunker busters to bury the families alive in the tunnels in which they huddle in fear against the onslaught of the Talmudics. To send the goyim to fight and die for Israel's enemies. But you think you should not have to pay taxes, just force others to pay taxes to support you.

Jesus did not teach financial squandering. Jesus had no money, owned nothing, had no place of his own to lay his head. Yet He is the Creator of all. Your insult about his seamless underwear is just crass and hateful and very Talmudic. The Bible says nothing about any underwear worn by Jesus or by anybody else for that matter.

As to him being a freeloader, only a Talmudic would think to say such a vile thing. Jesus owns everything. He controlled the weather, raised the dead and healed the sick. If you say he was a freeloader because he some young man's lunch in order to feed the multitude, I suppose that could be twisted to mean that, except that the Bible says everybody was full to the brim and there were baskets and baskets of food left over.

He cursed one fig tree, not "destroyed people's orchards," and it was to teach his disciples an object lesson, not to deprive anybody of their livelihood of their orchard. Your hateful lies about the Creator of the Universe who came to suffer as the Lamb of God, first to the Jews and then to the rest of us -- how ugly and ungrateful and prideful.

Jesus told the rabbis they were a den of vipers, that they slew the prophets God sent them, and that they would reject their Messiah but someday embrace the antichrist as their Messiah. In fact, after Jesus rose bodily from the grave, the rabbis made a deal with the Romans and the soldiers who reported Jesus was gone from the tomb to say his disciples had stolen his body, knowing full well Jesus was the Creator, but having chosen to serve Satan, in full knowledge and worldly power, instead.

If anybody doubts that Jews hate Jesus and Christians, they should just read your post. You will lie and say you are not Jewish, but I can tell you are.

reply to post by Salt of the Earth


I am not being funny or anything, but I believe that not all his words are in the bible. Its a sin, but I think certain things have been removed from the original texts from which the bible was translated.You really cant convince me that we have all the available information that was supposed to reach us from two millenia ago.

reply to post by TrueBrit


And you see? You think you are sinning for having a mind, a questioning mind? Who instilled that fear in you!!!

Do you want to live the rest of your life in FEAR!!!! WHY???

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Salt of the Earth

 

I am not being funny or anything, but I believe that not all his words are in the bible. Its a sin, but I think certain things have been removed from the original texts from which the bible was translated.You really cant convince me that we have all the available information that was supposed to reach us from two millenia ago.

I think there is more than enough in the Bible to keep us all busy for a few millenia. There is lots of other information that's true for us to learn, but it doesn't need to be nor should be included in the Bible. It's God's Book. He put in there what he wanted to put in there, and it is His job to write it and preserve it for us. If he could create the universe, He's certainly able to give us the Bible and prevent anybody from stealing any of His words. God promised this to us. He did not promise to stop all lies or false "holy books" from being disseminated. He only promised to give us the truth.

Those who turn from God's Book and look to other books which contradict God's Book are running from the truth and seeking out the lies that make them happy with the reality they choose to create for themselves, becoming what the Bible calls "filthy dreamers."

Originally posted by Yummy Freelunch
IM sorry to disagree, but ive NEVER wanted to kill anything! I even save moths and let them go outside. Im a horrible liar, I tried it when i was younger, and knew I'd never get away with it.
Stealing, NO! I work hard for what I have, and have even gone back to a store to tell them they gave me too much change!
I have to disagree with you. It is NOT in everyone's nature to do bad to others. I would give the shirt off my back to someone that needed it, without blinking an eye. And would NEVER harm another, human or otherwise

And who taught me that? It was instilled in me, I have always felt a compassion for life.
My sig says it all.

[edit on 17-3-2009 by Yummy Freelunch]

Seems like you have a grudge against men in general, blaming all of the problems of the world on men. This is not loving or compassionate or forgiving at all. And God does give us a conscience, and because of the influence of the Bible, the willingness of God to teach and instruct his human creation, some of mankind has learned to live honestly and unselfishly in duty to God, knowing the hairs of their head are numbered, that every thought and intent is known by God, and that there is no hiding from God, and that someday we will all give an account to God for our lives. If goodness was instilled in you, it was because others responsible for and/or influential in your upbringing were acting in accordance to this understanding and belief in the God of the Bible.

reply to post by Salt of the Earth


You havent listened. The bible as we know it is incomplete, missing parts which are crucial to its context as a body of work. Until all the peices are back together, how can we know that we have not misplaced our emphatic faith and vigour?

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Salt of the Earth

 

You havent listened. The bible as we know it is incomplete, missing parts which are crucial to its context as a body of work. Until all the peices are back together, how can we know that we have not misplaced our emphatic faith and vigour?

We are free to learn and study anything we want to, but we measure everything by God's Word, the Bible. Anything which contradicts the Bible does not supercede or trump the Bible, but should be viewed as suspect or discarded as not true. Most of the people looking for missing pieces to the Bible, so-called, don't even know what the Bible says to know if something is missing or not. The Mormons, for example, have several other books to "augment" the Bible that they place on a par equal to or greater than Scripture, and their own books contradict not only the Bible but contradict their own extra biblical books.

We also have hundreds of phony "bibles" that have mangled the scripture.

God did give us a Bible we can believe and trust, the King James Bible, a book soon to be banned as "hate literature," and the only Bible which tells us the name of Satan (Lucifer).

Best advice I can give regarding the Bible is to read it, study it, and memorize it, and try to follow it the best you can.

reply to post by Salt of the Earth


Thats good. When they ban it we can stop being decadent and foolish as a faith and go back to worshiping in groups in the home. Churches always seem AntiChristian to me anyway. They cost money that could be feeding the poor, they always seem full of middle class folks who look down on the "lower" class types like myself, and above all I cant stand some of the clergymen I have met... I mean theres one guy from my area is a vicar whos been having an affair for years... what the hell kind of leadership is that ?

Maybe the words that Christ spread were not to be taught. There is a big difference in spreading the word and teaching the word.

If you spread the word you are giving people something to ponder and on the level of their spiritual development will constantly change as they grow in spirit.

If you teach the word you are restricting them from understanding anything more than you do at the spiritual level you may be stuck on. Who says your spiritual level when you teach is even at a crawl?

The church as it is set up today is not what Jesus told his followers to do. It lacks faith, it promotes the feeling of never being good enough. It even undermines the faith of the followers.

Being a spreader of the word was never to be a paid cushy job that ministers/teachers have today. A spreader of the word was not to set in one place every day and people do to them. They were to go to the people. They were not to take money for spreading the word. If they needed money they were to work for it in a job. Spreading the word was never meant to be a glorified welfare program.

Where is the faith in Christ and his works and words that these teachers don't look to the words wrote in the bible and believe that God will supply them with what they need instead of looking for the same group of people every week to do it for them?

The words spoken by Christ are very similar to other spiritual leaders thru the ages and even before him.

Yet the bible keeps having the words changed to make it easier for the reader to understand in todays terminology. Yet in doing so how much of the way people look at things have been changed also? Who says those making those changes even understood in the first place? Perhaps they change words so it makes more sense to them at the level of development they are at now.

Example when Moses asks God who shall I tell them sent me..the reply is Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh. We are told it means I am that I am...but...try these out because they all mean that same phrase.

I will be that I will be

I will be who I will be

I will be which I will be

I will be where I will be

To some people that will all make sense to others they just won't get it. Just as with the words of Christ and they TEACH those words based on their understanding.

So stop blaming Christ for the wolves and the sheep thats the choices they have made for now in their lives.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Salt of the Earth

 

Thats good. When they ban it we can stop being decadent and foolish as a faith and go back to worshiping in groups in the home. Churches always seem AntiChristian to me anyway. They cost money that could be feeding the poor, they always seem full of middle class folks who look down on the "lower" class types like myself, and above all I cant stand some of the clergymen I have met... I mean theres one guy from my area is a vicar whos been having an affair for years... what the hell kind of leadership is that ?

The church is corrupt just as everything else -- education, medicine, media, law. It's all been poisoned.

Home churches are definitely the answer. But the Bible is our plumb line, our only sure thing we can rely on to make it through the gauntlet known as "life." Ditch the Bible, and you've ditched your lifeline. Grab ahold of something else to stay afloat and you will find out you've grabbed a shark's tail rather than a lifeline.