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Who's gonna pay NO MORE the American debt ?

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posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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China : future ex-first-debt payer

In the last five years, China has spent as much as one-seventh of its entire economic output buying foreign debt, mostly American. In September, it surpassed Japan as the largest overseas holder of Treasuries.But now Beijing is seeking to pay for its own $600 billion stimulus — just as tax revenue is falling sharply as the Chinese economy slows


www.forbes.com...

...Exports and imports are sharply down in China, with imports falling (-40%) more than exports.This is a scary signal, as Chinese imports are mostly raw materials and intermediate inputs. So while Chinese exports have fallen so far less than in the rest of Asia, they may fall much more sharply in the months ahead, as signaled by the free fall in imports.


China's Military Budget

China announced Tuesday that it will again sharply increase its military spending this year, budgeting a 17.6 percent rise that is roughly equal to last year's increase.


Well ... Things are quite clear :
- China WAS the best buyer of America's debt.
- China's financial resources are plunging down
- while the meltdown is more and more global
- while it's need of military power grows.

So, don't you think that America will have a BIG problem with financing it's "out of thin air" money ?





[edit on 8-3-2009 by orkson]




posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 07:04 PM
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Oh, the US WILL finance it's debt... you see, your 401k's, Union, Company, State retirements are no good (not for them who don't have your money yet)... all that money should be put into Government Bonds! (To finance the debt, this is a possibility that has been talked about already) They will take all retirement accounts (about 4 trillion) to use to finance more debt... then you get to pay another 5% going forward for your new and improved social security which they will use to buy more debt.

We have been in "cannibalization" mode for a long time now. After seizing retirement money, the next step of course is to cut benefits and raise taxes to use to buy more debt.

After this last cannibalization they only have a couple of choices... simply inflate the currency, begin using physical "collateral" for additional debt (such as land, unfavorable treaties, etc.) and lastly just re-issue a new currency.

I beleive they will go for the pension / retirement funds and increased taxation through "universal" healthcare first.


I myself would prefer import taxes on an easy scale... since you have no idea what is US made or what parts are US made, we make it easy with a "FLAT TAX" on cargo containers / train cars / truck trailers that way no games on what is "taxable or not" due to % of parts made in the US.

All cargo containers coming in from overseas is flat rate taxed period. (I should say any container coming into the US is flat rate taxed or they will simply bypass US ports and dump their crap in Canada or Mexico and try to get around it... so ANY container entering the US is flat taxed.

Yeah, piss on your Free for Them not for US BS Free Trade Agreement.

Anyway, I think they will cannibalize us to death before issuing a new currency or going to straight inflation. The GAME is to finance debt through bonds so everything that can be taken from the American Public will be taken to keep that game going for as long as possible.

[edit on 8-3-2009 by infolurker]



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 07:24 PM
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Here are a few examples... yes they are already scheming to do this.

online.wsj.com...


Powerful House Democrats are eyeing proposals to overhaul the nation’s $3 trillion 401(k) system, including the elimination of most of the $80 billion in annual tax breaks that 401(k) investors receive.

House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, D-California, and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee’s Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support, are looking at redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute.

. . .all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration.


www.workforce.com...


Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3 percent a year, adjusted for inflation. The current system of providing tax breaks on 401(k) contributions and earnings would be eliminated.

“I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401(k)s,” Ghilarducci said in an interview


She is calling "employer match" a government subsidy... Really woman, I thought my company was throwing in that 2 1/2% match... and we pay taxes on it when we cash it in... you are not loosing anything, cept our money B###H!

blog.heritage.org...



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by infolurker
 


IMO, I don't even see how a new currency is going to solve anything. The people committing the fraud are still in power the only thing that changes is what the debt is sold in. It is still the same old system and it is still run by the same ole fraudsters. I understand the concept behind it though.

They will try to confiscate our 401k's, IRA's, SS, all that goodness but the political system will collapse at that point, the number of people supporting the gov, vs the amount of people against the gov in that move is astronomical.

I see complete collapse(political and economic) in the worlds future. Our debt is to immense it also doesn't help they they will be financing debt with debt.

We are s-c-r-e-w-e-d.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 08:05 PM
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Who run Bartertown?......



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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heh - if this passes, DC will be first

H.R. 1041


Text of H.R.1014 as Introduced in House
To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to tax bona fide residents of the District of Columbia in the same manner as bona fide residents of possessions of the United States.
current 111st session of congress

Version History
Loading Bill Text

HR 1014 IH

111th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 1014

To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to tax bona fide residents of the District of Columbia in the same manner as bona fide residents of possessions of the United States.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
February 12, 2009

Mr. GOHMERT (for himself, Mr. FRANKS of Arizona, Mr. SENSENBRENNER, Mr. BROUN of Georgia, Mr. PAUL, Mr. LAMBORN, Mrs. LUMMIS, Mr. HENSARLING, Mr. BARTLETT, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, and Mr. HARPER) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Ways and Means------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A BILL

To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to tax bona fide residents of the District of Columbia in the same manner as bona fide residents of possessions of the United States.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the ‘No Taxation Without Representation Act’.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
The Congress finds the following:

(1) The phrase ‘no taxation without representation’ was a rallying cry of many American colonists during the period of British rule in the 1760s and early 1770s. The slogan gained widespread notoriety after the passage of the Sugar Act on April 5, 1764.

(2) American colonists increasingly resented being levied taxes without having actual legislators seated and voting in Parliament in London. The idea that there should be no taxation without representation dated back even further. Benjamin Franklin stated, ‘it is suppos’d an undoubted Right of Englishmen not to be taxed but by their own Consent given thro’ their Representatives.’.

(3) This issue became even more defined in 1765 with the passage of the Stamp Act which was the first true attempt to levy a direct tax on the American colonies. Ultimately the tax was repealed, but the idea of no taxation without representation persisted.

(4) Article I, section 2, clause 1 of the United States Constitution, states, ‘The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.’.


(5) The Organic Act of 1801 placed Washington, DC, under the exclusive jurisdiction of the United States Congress and people in the District were no longer considered residents of Virginia or Maryland.

(6) Many in Washington, DC, were immediately opposed to the idea of being taxed without congressional representation and over the years several congressional leaders introduced constitutional amendments to give the District of Columbia voting representation, though none were successful.

(7) In 1898, Puerto Rico was acquired by the United States and currently has a Resident Commissioner with limited voting rights. Section 933 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 exempts bona fide citizens who are residents of Puerto Rico for the entire taxable year from Federal taxes on income earned in Puerto Rico.

(8) On March 31, 1917, the United States took possession of the Virgin Islands and in 1927, the territory’s residents were granted citizenship. Under section 932 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, individuals who are bona fide residents of the United States Virgin Islands during the entire taxable year, and who fully pay all income tax liabilities to the United States Virgin Islands, are not subject to Federal income taxes on their income.

(9) Guam was established as a territory of the United States after the passage of the Guam Organic Act of 1950. Under the provisions of section 935 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, residents of Guam are required to file tax returns with Guam, but not with the United States Federal Government and therefore the residents do not have to pay United States Federal income taxes.

(10) The Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands was established in 1975 after residents decided not to pursue independence, but instead they opted to enter into territory negotiations. The tax treatment of the Northern Mariana Islands is similar to the structure of Guam in that bona fide residents are not required to pay Federal income taxes.

(11) American Samoa, which is technically considered ‘unorganized’ because no Organic Acts have been passed by Congress, is governed by section 931 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986. Under this section, bona fide year-round residents are exempt from Federal taxes on income they earn in Samoa, Guam, and Northern Mariana Islands, but are subject to Federal taxes on income earned elsewhere.

(12) In keeping with the early history and democratic traditions of the United States, the principles established in the Constitution, and in conformance with the other territories of the United States which have delegates but no Representative, the residents of the District of Columbia should be exempt from paying United States Federal income taxes.

SEC. 3. EXCLUSION FROM GROSS INCOME FOR INCOME FROM SOURCES WITHIN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.
(a) In General- Subpart D of part III of subchapter N of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

SEC. 938. INCOME FROM SOURCES WITHIN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.
‘(a) General Rule- In the case of an individual who is a bona fide resident of the District of Columbia during the entire taxable year, gross income shall not include--

‘(1) income derived from sources within the District of Columbia, and

‘(2) income effectively connected with the conduct of a trade or business by such individual within the District of Columbia.

‘(b) Deductions, etc. Allocable to Excluded Amounts Not Allowable- An individual shall not be allowed--

‘(1) as a deduction from gross income any deductions (other than the deduction under section 151, relating to personal exemptions), or

‘(2) any credit, properly allocable or chargeable against amounts excluded from gross income under this section.

‘(c) Bona Fide Resident and Other Applicable Rules- For purposes of this section, rules similar to the rules of section 876, 937, 957(c), 3401(a)(8)(D), and 7654 shall apply.’.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for subpart D of part III of subchapter N of chapter 1 of such Code is amended by adding at the end the following new item:

‘Sec. 938. Income from sources within the District of Columbia.’.

(c) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply to taxable years ending after the date of the enactment of this Act.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


We need to add an amendment to the constitution that states contracts and laws need to be written in plain and clear grammar and English that is understandable by below average 6th graders.

Will it makes laws insanely long, that it will. What it will do though is cut out all loop holes. They will have to add loop holes in plain sight.

I think we would already be protesting if these bills were written like that. The way it currently is only people within the law profession can understand stuff like that.

The only thing I understand in that bill is that residents of DC will not have to pay income taxes if there funding comes from people living within DC. IF I even understand that correctly.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
The only thing I understand in that bill is that residents of DC will not have to pay income taxes if there funding comes from people living within DC. IF I even understand that correctly.


You got it - who works in DC and gets paid from DC?

Think about it...

Yes there are regular businesses, But who will benefit the MOST from this?



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


The politicians. That was my first thought when I read this bill. So they are passing a bill a that says they don't have to pay taxes because they don't have representation.

What bull#.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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The politicians. That was my first thought when I read this bill. So they are passing a bill a that says they don't have to pay taxes because they don't have representation.

What bull#.


In a number of states felons are not allowed to vote but they still must pay taxes.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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They will try to confiscate our 401k's, IRA's, SS, all that goodness but the political system will collapse at that point, the number of people supporting the gov, vs the amount of people against the gov in that move is astronomical.



I remember last fall, both barky and mccain said they wanted to let people withdraw $10,000 tax free from their 401k/IRA. I thought it was a great idea but then they stopped talking about it and i figured they were told the plan is for the govt to soon take over all retirement plans.



posted on Mar, 13 2009 @ 02:44 AM
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Good thread about the same subject :

China



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