Why Is National Medicare a Four Letter Word

reply to post by GAOTU789


I can definetly agree with your point on view. I do thing the system is somewhat flawed and we could have something betther, as a combination of both systems.

I also have had some extensive surgeries for my leg which at the moment about 5 pounds heavier than the rest of my body, the surgery to replace the pins took 6 months to schedule because not so many of these specialists are available in NB. If I'm not mistaken you come from the same area I do.

I will say that the Moncton Hospital and the George Dumont are some of the worst hospitals I have encountered when it comes to receiving proper care, Trillium in Toronto however, very good.

~Keeper

reply to post by branty


Why Is National Medicare a Four Letter Word?

C-O-S-T

Big Insurance big medicine Capitalism < Let them die let them die let them die let them die..........



[edit on 8-3-2009 by simonecharisse]

the truth is bs politics and capitalism

you're always going to get the answer, its about choice

the ability to buy care based on what you pay for, the more you pay the "better" care you get, the more the insurance companies make

bottom line insurance companies have too much power to let that power be taken away from them, and that is why we dont have universal healthcare


everyone always screams about how horrible canadas system is, and they yell at the top of their lungs "oh look at the horror stories"


these people are blind fools

for if they werent, they would look around them and see the horror stories happening under their own noses

here in the good ol usa, people are dying in the emergency room on the floor while they are being ignored because they are homeless or uninsured

no matter what the policy is, universal or how it is now, there will ALWAYS be horror stories

but here in america, its all about the all mighty dollar, and if they made healthcare for everyone, dollars would be lost


i personally think everyone should have health care, and if you're turned down for a surgery you want, pay for it yourself, if its something you need, have it done and fight it out in court as to who should pay

and if people are being taken care of good enough, then we need to readdress healthcare for everyone, because just because we say its healthcare for everyone, if they arent being taken care of good enough, then its just a saying and not a truth and we should improve that same universal healthcare

bottom line with technology we have available to us

it would be A LOT more beneficial to the economy to keep everyone healthy, and working then it would be to deny medical care


so to wrap it up and put it simply, the answer is because of corrupt politcs and politicians

and companies who through capitalism has gained too much power since our own policies have backfired in our faces

reply to post by simonecharisse


I can understand your point that there are many at home remedies for many things, but to say that every health care professional is out to get you and provides you with less than effective care is very ignorant.

Your personnal attack on our fellow ATS member has provided nothing of benefit to this discussion.

I would suggest you try to treat an imune-defiency or a failing kidney in your home, I am assuming your statement about dying where you stand would apply.

~Keeper

I changed that post to say something different, that I like better. Feared the old one would be misunderstood.

I am a disabled EMT that is also a veteran.

EMTs i know through the Internet paint a lot different view of the health care system in the UK, Canada and Australia.

The media paints the systems a lot better then they really are.

Some disorders as a point fibromyalgia, CFS/ME, and metabolic syndrome

The insurance industry in the UK Canada and Australia has through bad press, false research by doctors in the pay of the insurance industry. and other means. have distorted these conditions from health problems to mental health conditions.
Why they a expensive to treat and because they can change or eliminate the drugs used to treat these conditions. tell the the people that they are depressed and give them a cheap anti depressant and put them on a exercise program and behavioural therapy. (this does not work i know doctors tried this on me.
I finely went to the VA and was sent to doctors from UCLA that treated me with the right meds.)

Then when this does not work and the doctor tells the person that's all that can be done the person leaves and tries to find a doctor that will treat the disorder. or goes on illegal drugs alcohol. internet drugs etc.

But the doctor now thinks because the person no longer visits the office for fibromyalgia that the person is cured and does the same thing with the next person with fibromyalgia.
This has become a never ending cycle in countris like the UK Canada and Australia.

Also a warning to US veterans if they start a national health care system in the US they will do away with the VA health care system just like the UK Canada and Australia did to there veterans with there national health care system.
Many of the special health care problems of veterans are rarely seen by doctors at regular hospitals and out side of normal practice for them.
thing like agent orange disorders, blast injuries, PTSD, etc

[edit on 8-3-2009 by ANNED]

Originally posted by infolurker
A few words for you ... Lines, Waiting Lists to see specialist, unable to get tests because the government system won't authorize it. Denial of surgery or simple unavailability of a surgeon.. the list goes on and on.

When the patient retains the power to financially reward providers for good service, providers will compete for the money by offering better quality at lower prices.

Except I have private insurance in the USA and I have many of those things. Also they are taking hundreds of dollars out of my family income to be covered by insurance and I STILL have a bill for hundreds of dollars monthly for the medical condition my son has apparently developed, oh and they decided I owe thousands of dollars for the hospital stay where they diagnosed that when I thought they were going to pick that up. We're trying to fgure out how not to lose the house over the bills for our wonderful healthcare.

There is one US industry that makes government services look perfectly efficient, and that's healthcare. Single payer healthcare might be perfect but its hard to imagine an INSURANCE system worse than our current system.

Mind you, I like many other people are looking for an expanded Medicare, not a Canadian system where the Gov. ALSO owns the actual hospitals.

reply to post by simonecharisse


Organic farming is being outlawed so there goes your "natural and healthy" diet in which to keep yourself well.

Codex Alimentarius is being slowly but steadily implemented. By the end of the year I'd be surprised if you could still get the home remedies to which you still have access.

Pharmaceutical companies are "accidentally" (and for the second time!) releasing LIVE avian flu. Oops.

It has more to do with the greedy and corrupt viewing the rest of us as simply not worthy of life. Georgia guidestones give us a clue as to how many "cattle" will be needed on their utopian ranch.

LOL. I know Nurse Ratchett and boy is she burned out. Overworked, underpaid, exposed (sometimes deliberately) to deadly diseases. I won't let her near me either.

I have decided to get out of healthcare before the bioterror victims start pouring through the doors. At my age I don't know what else I can do but I know I'm all "funned out" from nursing.

Originally posted by wiredamerican

As long as the doctors are getting our money, we can pick and choose .
...
If the doctors are getting federal funding, the government makes the rules on what you need or do not need.

Remember no one serious in the USA is talking about the Govt. taking over health care delivery, just the insurance coverage/payment portion.

I am currently covered by private insurance, so I can be said to pay the doctor, and I have NO power. I currently owe them thousands of dollars. If I don't pay they will sue me, take my posessions, and refuse to treat me further.

We need hundreds of dollars every couple months for one, ONE child's medicine. I hope we don't get a second serious illness in the family. If I refuse to pay that they don't give me the medicine and my child gets sicker. Oh, and that's the GENERIC version of the drug.

A government system ultimately is responsible to the voters, so I have a say in that. A private hospital or insurance company is responsive to its owners, meaning I do NOT have a say in that.

DON'T TELL ME HOW PATIENT CHOICE ANSWERS EVERYTHING... I only see other people getting rich.

Whitewave, my apologies, my post was belligerent. I had the bad luck of some funky experiences with a professional and their unprofessionalism, lets-just-say. Otherwise, I respect and acknowledge how overworked you'all are, it's an occupation I wouldn't want.

[edit on 8-3-2009 by simonecharisse]

reply to post by simonecharisse


No problem.

I've had issues with nurses myself when I have awakened on the "wrong side of the bed" (nurses make the worst patients) and that was as an informed consumer knowledgeable of the inner workings of the healthcare system.

I can understand people's frustration at the current system. I feel it too. I don't have health insurance either. We all see that health care costs are too high and insurance is too limiting and dictatorial (to medical decisions). Most of us want something we can't afford and the only solution we can see is to spread the cost around to everyone.

Unfortunately, TPTB see another solution and that is to rob us blind before killing most of us off. As you might imagine, I have a problem with this solution but I see it being implemented a little more every day.

When I speak out against nationalized healthcare it's not because I don't think everyone deserves to be healthy regardless of ability to pay; it's because I see it as the penultimate step to total annihilation of (what the corrupt view as) "useless eaters".

reply to post by branty


There is NO downside.

You see, here in USA we NEVER have enough money to help each other, but somehow we are always capable of finding few billion dollars here and there to make wars all over the world...

I wonder when the time will come that we start taking care of each other first ?

I guess nothing short of total economic crash and perhaps another civil war will teach us a lesson

Believe me what I say...None of these supporters of our current health care system are over 50 and never had any major/serious problems. They, for some reason, believe that their insurance will never gonna run out and they will never receive half a million $US bill in their mail.

Of course, sooner or later, they all change their mind when they take away their house or a favorite SUV and they have to file for a bankruptcy. All that with a refusal of ANY other insurance company to cover them EVER again, because they are very "high risk" customers.

It simply cannot be that nationalized health care, which is in pretty much every country in the world, is better then ours, because we are brainwashed to believe that we are the best country on the planet (perhaps in the universe) and what we have cannot ever be changed, hell, we believe, even, that it should be IMPOSED on others.

The real reality is that government officials and media heavily sponsored by big PHARMA, insurance companies and private hospitals are brainwashing population since beginning of time that what we have now is the final word in the health care.

As we ALL see, and whoever does not is completely blind IMO, health care industry is one of the most profitable businesses in the country

Originally posted by 5thElement
reply to post by branty

 

Believe me what I say...None of these supporters of our current health care system are over 50 and never had any major/serious problems. They, for some reason, believe that their insurance will never gonna run out and they will never receive half a million $US bill in their mail.

I'd like to believe you, however; I am over 50, have indeed had major/serious health problems, have had my insurance run out when I got canned for being too sick to come to work.

Of course, sooner or later, they all change their mind when they take away their house or a favorite SUV and they have to file for a bankruptcy. All that with a refusal of ANY other insurance company to cover them EVER again, because they are very "high risk" customers.

House and SUV are paid for which means exactly squat if/when the economy tanks and property taxes and gasoline can no longer be afforded. But hey, we've got printing presses on overdrive making more money as we speak so load up your wheelbarrows and roll 'em on down to your Dr.'s office for your co-pay.

Our healthcare is among the best in the world even if our system of paying for it is flawed.

The real reality is that government officials and media heavily sponsored by big PHARMA, insurance companies and private hospitals are brainwashing population since beginning of time that what we have now is the final word in the health care.

The real reality is that there are numerous cures (not just treatments) for a variety of illnesses that are deliberately being withheld. Big pharma, insurance companies and private hospitals have not been around "since beginning of time" so that point was a bit OTT, don't ya think?

If financial gains were the only motivation for TPTB, wouldn't they release some of the info hidden away on how to treat ourselves? They could make a whopping profit, at least in the short term. I think the real goal is to have us all die off. Having people scream for a change is exactly what's needed for them to bring about that change. I just don't see the change as beneficial to our health.

As we ALL see, and whoever does not is completely blind IMO, health care industry is one of the most profitable businesses in the country

I live in an area that is not as economically depressed as some places in the country and our local hospital just laid off 200 workers, including nurses. This, during a critical nursing shortage. Dr.'s are getting harder to find, especially geriatric doctors. They make so little money from Medicare patients (mostly geriatric patients) that it barely covers their mandatory malpractice insurance.

People aren't paying their hospital bills but the hospitals still have to treat them. If people continue to get laid off and unemployment continues to soar, then where is all this tax money going to come from to pay for nationalized healthcare? I'm sure not going to work for free.

Originally posted by wiredamerican
Good question!

Here is your answer.

When doctors get our money, we are powerful because we pay their bills.

When the doctors get the government money, the government is powerful.

As long as the doctors are getting our money, we can pick and choose .

If the doctors are getting federal funding, the government makes the rules on what you need or do not need.

It is that simple.

Ya considering you just made up that entire reply without referencing or consulting reality... I hate too say it but, I really think in the future when some of you are dying of cancer, fighting on the phone three hours a day, being charged $50,000 a month for your cocktails and bankrupting your family a few of you might regret mindless shilling such as the above post.

I mean this person is spouting lines from Kaisers PR book -

HS zero concept of REALITY in regards to this - ZERO.


HE will eat it one day - or his wife - daughter - mom or dad... BAHHHHHH!

Originally posted by whitewave
reply to post by branty

 

Why Is National Medicare a Four Letter Word?

C-O-S-T




COUGH.... (shill) - ughhhhum!

And it does not strike you in the forehead that we pay 2 times what it costs in the next most expensive nation? NO....

Well I hope OK acts on the tenth amendment thing... you guys (con - HMO shills ) are washed on this issue absolutely kooderfied....

I got the best healthcare of my life in MEXICO - cost me a pittance - its a shame you are completely mind @$%$ - citizens acting like lobbyists.

Your ignorance on this issue is shameful - I have a four letter word

Originally posted by branty


I live in Canada where we have national health service. If you break your arm , you go to the nearest hospital and get it fixed. No bill at the end. You get healed , you go home. As a Canadian , I hear horror stories about the US, if you get sick , your broke. (unless your rich) So I have a hard time understanding how you wouldn't want health care for everyone, regardless of your income level. No need to flame me, but please inform me, as I fail to see the downside.

The downside is it competes with ideology... People assume that if it is against their political view points, it must be flawed and evil. These fools complain about taxes but don't mind paying twice as much as the care is worth. I can only assume they figure paying a board room full of EO's is cost effective.

Its all polotics - I have not read one educated American POV on this THREAD- everyone HERE is making $#@$ up, I assume because they want to defend FASCISM at the cost of their loved ones who have yet to be diagnosed.

The nationalized healthcare model with not "socialize" anything you tards...The board of trustees with not be eliminated, the hospitals with not be US gov property....

Sorry OP

These people are sub human with their views - brain of a puppet...

URRRRRR DEERRRRRRRRR

I am so glad to be healthy in the US, because on the occasion that I have to see a doctor or god forbid the ER, I'm there forever and have to pay an arm and a leg with my crappy half-insurance. If you get an illness your choices are bankruptcy, moving, or dieing.

Originally posted by Dramey
bottom line insurance companies have too much power to let that power be taken away from them, and that is why we dont have universal healthcare

I've always imagined that, if universal healthcare were to be adopted in America, it would be modeled more after the German model instead of the federal government, because people would spass out once they saw how much would have to be spent to actually pay for 300,000,000 Americans to have health insurance. Here in Germany, there are still insurance companies, and they still make a ton of money. So, I don't think at all the American insurance companies are going to be worried about losing money.

The biggest reason that I'm against universal health care is, I don't want to have to pay for people's stupid choices--it would be unfair to someone like me who is healthy. I don't smoke or drink, but, under a universal healthcare system, I would have to fork over a ton of my hard earned money, through taxes, to pay for people who have choosen to smoke and drink themselves to death for most of their lives. That's not fair in my eyes.

Something I've always thought that people miss in the healthcare debate is why are the costs so high. I don't think it's really the doctor or the insurance company wanting to gouge people [naturally, they're going to want to make a profit], but rather, the costs must be high because America is a sue happy country. People sue their doctors for millions of dollars because they looked at them wrong and label it malpractice. People sue the makers of medications because they had to experience a side-effect, which is labeled could happen right on the bottle!

I remember when my grandma died when I was in middle school, there were lawyers chasing her ambulance to the hospital in the hopes of talking to my dad to try and get him to sue the hospital because it was obviously their fault that she died--not that she was 85 and smoked her whole life. Doctors and insurance companies cover their butts with higher prices because of the constant threat of litigation.

In America, we need to stop being so sue happy and let people that truly need to sue the medical providers/insurers sue them--not Mrs. Smith who accidently got her toe stepped on when she visited the doctor.

reply to post by octotom


going out on a limb and ASSUME your single. No mention of family, wife, I hope for your sake , when and if that happens , all are healthy , for their entire lives